Life Insurance for Pilots that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

Greebo

Greebo

N9017H - C172M (1976)
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Retired Evil Overlord
Back in 2008 I quit flying for financial reasons (getting out of debt).

One of the things I did while getting my financial house in order was to get adequate life insurance on myself - and unfortunately if I wanted to continue flying and remain covered, it would have cost me ... as I recall about 3x what it cost otherwise.

Now that my house is in order, I'm finding that I miss flying. However, I still have the insurance problem.

Are there any life insurance providers out there that provide term life insurance in the 7 figure range that covers fliers at a somewhat comparable rate to non fliers, as opposed to "an arm and a leg more"?
 
I have AOPA pilot life insurance. I only pay four dollars every three months. My quarterly payments are low because I think I chose ten or twenty thousand as my coverage, enough for my Mom to pay for my funeral or coffin or headstone or whatever. She doesn't have any extra money, so if I die, I do not want it to be a burden on my family and they are old fashioned and want a burial etc.
 
I have State Farm (the wife works for them). I have never had them ask anything about flying and have not had an increase of premiums since I started taking lessons. The agent she works for said it's not an issue.
 
JB1842 said:
I have State Farm (the wife works for them). I have never had them ask anything about flying and have not had an increase of premiums since I started taking lessons. The agent she works for said it's not an issue.
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That's surprising - have you checked your policy to be sure?

But also encouraging - Do you mind disclosing your coverage level and premium? (And is it term ins? I don't do "whole life" ;) )
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I have AOPA pilot life insurance. I only pay four dollars every three months. My quarterly payments are low because I think I chose ten or twenty thousand as my coverage, enough for my Mom to pay for my funeral or coffin or headstone or whatever. She doesn't have any extra money, so if I die, I do not want it to be a burden on my family and they are old fashioned and want a burial etc.
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*forheadsmack*

AOPA...duh...how could I forget...
 
I checked the policy, and didn't see anything about flying. As I said, the agent she works under said it is not big deal (he's been in business a long time, and is one of the companys top sellers, really knows his stuff). He says I have a better chance dying on the job (I'm a cop) or getting creamed by a bus than crashing a plane. I have a couple of policies. One is a return of premium policy, the other I believe is whole. Together, both are over $400,000 and I think, and that's a big think, I pay around $250-300 a month for those. I also pay around $650 a month for all my insurance (health, dental, optical, renters, car, policies for both of us, personal articles). Don't marry an insurance salesperson, it get's expensive. Your overall health plays a bigger factor into premiums, the healthier you are, the less you pay. When she gets to work, I'll shoot her an email, and see for sure what State Farm policy is.
 
steingar said:
No life insurance here. Always seemed like a bad bet to me.
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Well, in regards to that, allow me to relay why I disagree vehemently.

http://www.frugalvillage.com/forums...ment/123088-best-money-i-spend-each-year.html

Originally posted 8/28/2009:
Today, listening to Dave Ramsey archives, I heard a truly heart wrenching tale.

Dave takes a call from a 35 year old woman, married something like 12-15 years, with 4 children. Six weeks ago, on vacation, there was an accident, and her husband drowned.

Two years prior, they had discovered Dave Ramsey, and gotten on his plan. Because of the advice that he gives that they followed, this woman had $9,000 in the bank (Fully funded EF), a years salary in life insurance from work, and another $350,000 had just arrived from his life insurance. They had absolutely no debt, except for their mortgage.

Where most women would be scrambling to figure out how they were going to make their payments, feed the children, and care for them while making enough money to survive, this couple had made arrangements so that this woman could easily spend the next six months with her children, able to grieve in peace and security. In fact, she could spend 10 years just raising her kids on the plan they made in the time they had. With social security, she won't have to work a day of her children's lives at home - and she could pay off her house in full to boot.

This is the kind of story that makes me both very sad, and also very relieved. I'm relieved, because last year, Ceashels and I went to see a MetLife agent and we set up a policy large enough to ensure that should the worst happen to me, Ceashels would never need to work a day in the rest of her life. For a piddling amount - about 1.5% of our income per year, she is protected for the next 20 years.

Today, I heard the story about this poor woman who has no need to worry about money while she grieves for the loss of her husband. Today, I cut the check to Met Life, for the 2010 premium.

It's the best money I spend every year.
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You're going to die. You're not getting around that fact.

Life insurance is a way of telling your family how much you love them and care for (as in take care OF) them even after you're gone.
 
JB1842 said:
I checked the policy, and didn't see anything about flying. As I said, the agent she works under said it is not big deal (he's been in business a long time, and is one of the companys top sellers, really knows his stuff). He says I have a better chance dying on the job (I'm a cop) or getting creamed by a bus than crashing a plane. I have a couple of policies. One is a return of premium policy, the other I believe is whole. Together, both are over $400,000 and I think, and that's a big think, I pay around $250-300 a month for those. I also pay around $650 a month for all my insurance (health, dental, optical, renters, car, policies for both of us, personal articles). Don't marry an insurance salesperson, it get's expensive. Your overall health plays a bigger factor into premiums, the healthier you are, the less you pay. When she gets to work, I'll shoot her an email, and see for sure what State Farm policy is.
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I will definitely look into them then. Though I don't do return of premium either.

Your $400k policy costs more than 2x what I pay for a $1M term policy, and I got it at 39 weighing just under 300 lbs.

IMO - Whole life/return of premium etc are just ripoffs. Life insurance and Investing don't agree with each other. ;)

But I do appreciate the lead!
 
I have a term policy. I pay $39/mo for $500k coverage as a known pilot.
 
Greebo said:
Well, in regards to that, allow me to relay why I disagree vehemently. You're going to die. You're not getting around that fact.

Life insurance is a way of telling your family how much you love them and care for (as in take care OF) them even after you're gone.
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Me telling Mrs. Steingar I love her is good enough for me. Flowers usually work for her, jewelry better. We have savings and assets, and she can work. No kids. Sorry, not every situation is identical.

I'm not wagering on my own demise. Fool's bet, if you ask me.
 
steingar said:
Me telling Mrs. Steingar I love her is good enough for me. Flowers usually work for her, jewelry better. We have savings and assets, and she can work. No kids. Sorry, not every situation is identical.

I'm not wagering on my own demise. Fool's bet, if you ask me.
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Hey, if you have the money in the bank to ensure that Mrs. Steingar is provided for in the event of your inevitable demise, more power to you.

But anyone who, upon their death, would leave their family in a financial ruin because of the loss of income who doesn't protect against that is, in my ardent opinion, far far worse than a fool.
 
All insurance policies are ripoffs!! You're placing bets against your life, and the odds always favor the house. The return of premium is more expensive than the whole. I just think of it as a savings account. If I die before it matures, my wife gets a nice payout, if I'm still alive by then, I get over $30,000 back right after I retire (I refer to it now as my future flying fund). My wife hates term policies. According to her, they end up costing way more in the long run. I'll take her word for it. Since we plan on starting a family later this year, the $300 a month is nothing knowing that my family will be provided for.
 
First, Chuck, welcome back.

Second, about life insurance....

I have two term policies that don't have pilot exclusions. One is provided by my employer, the other at my cost through a professional organization (IEEE). The employer policy has the option to increase the value for cost-per-thousand in-line with IEEE. I maintain both to keep continuity in the event I separate from my employer for some reason (personal preference) so something will stay in force without having to do a qualification (as we age....).

As for amounts, there are a lot of theories on the best approach. If you have kids, they'll need to be provided for. If you're married, you need to consider your spouse, their income, their expected future income, expenses, etc. Many insurance companies do a one-size-fits-all based on a non-working spouse. Few people really need a 7-figure insurance policy... depending on your situation & your assets/debts, it may be possible to do as little as 2x income. Maybe less.

AOPA & EAA do have insurance programs.

Since you're going to be flying again, you'll want renters (or owners, if you buy a plane) insurance. Why not talk to an independent insurance broker experienced with aviation that can help advise you with both policies? I'd posit that *if* you truly feel you need a 7-figure life insurance policy that you'll also be concerned about liability exposure. Maybe see about an umbrella policy?

Third: I'm now iin the DC area & still have the plane. If you feel like a ride-along sometime, let me know.
 
JB1842 said:
All insurance policies are ripoffs!! You're placing bets against your life, and the odds always favor the house. The return of premium is more expensive than the whole. I just think of it as a savings account. If I die before it matures, my wife gets a nice payout, if I'm still alive by then, I get over $30,000 back right after I retire (I refer to it now as my future flying fund). My wife hates term policies. According to her, they end up costing way more in the long run. I'll take her word for it. Since we plan on starting a family later this year, the $300 a month is nothing knowing that my family will be provided for.
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Well, IMO the objective of a term policy is to replace lost income in the event you die BEFORE you accumulate enough wealth on which to retire. My baseline coverage level is 10x one's annual income. With my primary policy and work policy I'm somewhere closer to 13x now, but it's the $1M policy I'm mainly concerned with.

So in my case, at $1,500/yr for $1,000,000 the total 20 year cost will be $30,000. If I die before 2028, my wife will get $1,000,000. Not a bad trade.

And if I last to 2028 and my investment plan works (which has been so far so good), then the peace of mind for the last 20 years will have been well worth it.
 
wsuffa said:
First, Chuck, welcome back.
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Great to see you again Bill! :D

Since you're going to be flying again, you'll want renters (or owners, if you buy a plane) insurance. Why not talk to an independent insurance broker experienced with aviation that can help advise you with both policies?
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At the moment I'm entertaining a notion but if it becomes more serious, I will definitely do this.

I'd posit that *if* you truly feel you need a 7-figure life insurance policy that you'll also be concerned about liability exposure. Maybe see about an umbrella policy?
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Already covered - we have rental properties so we have a $1M liability umbrella.

Third: I'm now iin the DC area & still have the plane. If you feel like a ride-along sometime, let me know.
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That's very generous of you! I'd love to!

I wonder if I can dig up my old headset somewhere... ;)
 
Greebo said:
Well, IMO the objective of a term policy is to replace lost income in the event you die BEFORE you accumulate enough wealth on which to retire. My baseline coverage level is 10x one's annual income. With my primary policy and work policy I'm somewhere closer to 13x now, but it's the $1M policy I'm mainly concerned with.

So in my case, at $1,500/yr for $1,000,000 the total 20 year cost will be $30,000. If I die before 2028, my wife will get $1,000,000. Not a bad trade.

And if I last to 2028 and my investment plan works (which has been so far so good), then the peace of mind for the last 20 years will have been well worth it.
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That's how I feel about term life. And my costs are similar.
 
I just got an offer from Travers Aviation for term life, $500,00 at ~$20/mo for a person under 40. I think it said ~$30 for 40 to 50 years old.

I actually use the life insurance offered through work. I verified that there are no exclusions for aviation. It costs me about $30/mo for 5x salary, which meets our family needs.
 
I went through Zander Insurance. They got me a $1,000,000 20 year term policy with Midland National for $56/mo. No exclusions for my flying. I double and triple checked. I had to promise them that I had no plans to fly experimental or skydive. I asked him what would happen if I later flew experimental.

Him: "do you have any plans to do so right now?"
Me: "No, no plans currently."
Him: "That's all I need to know. If you did some day and something happened, you'd be covered."

I was 34 at the time and weighed around 210 lbs. I weight quite a bit less than that now and am in much better shape. I've thought about pricing new policies to see if I could do better.
 
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I have a fundamental problem with betting that I'm going to die.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a fundamental problem with betting that I'm going to die.
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Why? It seems like a fairly safe bet. There is a 100% chance that you're going to die.

Look, every situation is different. I have a wife and two small kids (4 years and 2 years). My wife stays home with them. I know what her skills are and what she can make if she goes back to work. If I go flying and both of the wings depart the aircraft, I want to know that my choices don't impact their ability to move forward without me. If I die, I'll die knowing that my wife can live comfortably and that she can afford to send my kids to college. That peace of mind is worth $56/month to me.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a fundamental problem with betting that I'm going to die.
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Yes, but we also have a fundamental responsibility to our loved ones in the event that we do lose the bet that is inherent in life, whether we like to make the bet or not. Life has already made the bet for you, you cannot opt out of the gamble. You can only manage it. Perhaps not even that.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have a fundamental problem with betting that I'm going to die.
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Betting that you're going to die is like betting that an airplane will return to the ground.

It will.

Its just a matter of when.
 
Greebo said:
Betting that you're going to die is like betting that an airplane will return to the ground.

It will.

Its just a matter of when.
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Like a glider. Your luck and skill, factors you can control and circumstances you cannot, will determine when, where, and under what conditions.
 
Yep. Life insurance, particularly Term Life, is about managing the risk of things not going as planned. If you're single, or wealthy enough, then your death may have minimal effect on those around you.

But for the rest of us, an "early" death is a catastrophic event for those around us. Children, mortgages, retirement... all those come into play. If I go I know that I'll leave my family enough money to take care of all debt (including homes), Ciara's college, and enough money to live on for a few years while they adapt and move on.
 
TMetzinger said:
Yep. Life insurance, particularly Term Life, is about managing the risk of things not going as planned. If you're single, or wealthy enough, then your death may have minimal effect on those around you.

But for the rest of us, an "early" death is a catastrophic event for those around us. Children, mortgages, retirement... all those come into play. If I go I know that I'll leave my family enough money to take care of all debt (including homes), Ciara's college, and enough money to live on for a few years while they adapt and move on.
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Insurance - particularly life insurance and AD&D (and at a certain age, long-term care) - need to be part of an overall (personal/family) financial management plan that takes into account factors that folks have mentioned in this thread.
 
Wow it really amazes me to see that some of you guys for some reason feel death is beyond you. I'm not flying but still realize the dangers of regular life and do NOT want to leave my family hanging in the wind. Love is great but it sure won't help my wife after I'm gone.
 
LJS1993 said:
Wow it really amazes me to see that some of you guys for some reason feel death is beyond you. I'm not flying but still realize the dangers of regular life and do NOT want to leave my family hanging in the wind. Love is great but it sure won't help my wife after I'm gone.
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I don't think it's so much that people don't think death is beyond them, but there are people who do not have dependents or others who would be relying on their money. For these people life insurance is not necessary. The OP is obviously in a different situation, though.
 
I think it's not a case of 'death is beyond me' but a superstitious belief that 'if I buy life insurance it'll increase the odds of me dying sooner'.
 
steingar said:
No life insurance here. Always seemed like a bad bet to me.
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It is a "bad bet" for the insured, the only way to collect is to die and by then the money isn't very useful to him/her. But it can be very important to anyone who is dependent on the insured's support such as spouses and offspring. Even if you leave a substantial estate, a life insurance payout can mean the difference between a forced liquidation at fire sale prices and simply writing a check.
 
gismo said:
It is a "bad bet" for the insured, the only way to collect is to die and by then the money isn't very useful to him/her. But it can be very important to anyone who is dependent on the insured's support such as spouses and offspring. Even if you leave a substantial estate, a life insurance payout can mean the difference between a forced liquidation at fire sale prices and simply writing a check.
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If you have sufficient assets and have structured those assets properly (e.g. living trust, etc.) then, yes, it is a bad bet if you consider that you are healthier and likely to live longer than the actuaries figure you will. I am not in that asset position (I am in that health position - knock on wood) and am divorced so I only carry enough life to cover expenses and ensure that my son can get a good education. Were I differently situated I might carry more. Or less.
 
Just heard back from my wife. My numbers were off. I only pay $175 a month for $400,000. There are no pilot exclusions, but if I was to get a new policy it would be $3.00 more a year per $1000 of coverage because of being a pilot. But since the I had the policies before I started flying, it doesn't change.
 
Greebo said:
One of the things I did while getting my financial house in order was to get adequate life insurance on myself
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Are you certain your existing policies no longer cover GA flying? I was in a similar situation with life insurance that excluded coverage for death while PIC. I was ok with that at the time because I was no longer flying. When I came back to flying 25 years later, I checked and my insurance company told me (in writing) that such an exclusion lapsed 2 years after the policy went into effect.
 
According to my wife once you sign the policy you are guaranteed the premium, and flying wouldn't change that. But this for State Farm. Another company could have different rules. Won't hurt to call some local agents and ask. And dont get mad at the agent if you get a price you dont like. Its the underwriters who set the premiums.
 
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Greebo said:
*forheadsmack*

AOPA...duh...how could I forget...
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Just looked. AOPA level term life seems roughly comparable to the cheapest online quotes, under $0.40/$1000/month for me; male, 59, good health, nonsmoker.
 
Greebo said:
Are there any life insurance providers out there that provide term life insurance in the 7 figure range that covers fliers at a somewhat comparable rate to non fliers, as opposed to "an arm and a leg more"?
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Yes, but I'm not sure who it was. When I went to work for CalDive, there was an issue getting me insurance due to being a pilot. Our insurance & benefits gal in the office looked around and not only found me coverage, she found me better coverage at a lower premium and switched the whole company over.
 
I'm paying $179/mo for a 20 year fixed term $1mm policy thru Zurich Kemper, now Chase? that has no exclusions for GA. I believe I bought it around age 45ish; good health, non-smoker
 
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