Lewiston, ME

[gprellwitz]

The appalling events in Lewiston, ME this week made me wonder how @Lawreston (Harley Reich) is doing. He's from just 20 miles from there, and hasn't logged on here since 2019.
Grant

 

[midlifeflyer]

I have very close friends in Lewiston. They are safe and checking in their friends.

 

[mandm]

I wish we would invest in mental health issues, it’s becoming a big problem.

These events aren’t surprises and always have triggers leading up to them.

 

[Dave Theisen]

The appalling events in Lewiston, ME this week made me wonder how @Lawreston (Harley Reich) is doing. He's from just 20 miles from there, and hasn't logged on here since 2019.
Grant

I miss his posts.

 

[gprellwitz]

For those who follow the Airplane Geeks, Micah, the Main(e) Man has checked in safe.

 

[Racerx]

I wish we would invest in mental health issues, it’s becoming a big problem.

These events aren’t surprises and always have triggers leading up to them.

As a strong supporter of the second amendment...I think we need something similar to an FAA type medical...as flawed as it is

 

[Bob Noel]

As a strong supporter of the second amendment...I think we need something similar to an FAA type medical...as flawed as it is

The challenge would be to find objective measures that would be applicable.

(not to get into the unconstitutionality of needing permission to exercise constitutional rights - imagine the uproar if someone had to pass a test in order to be able to vote)

 

[Sac Arrow]

I put a substantial amount of blame for mass shootings on the major news networks, who glamorize the shooters and give them the attention and fame that they seek. Granted, the public has a right to know what is going on and who did it, but giving them endless attention and credibility isn't helping the matter.

 

[Zeldman]

As a strong supporter of the second amendment...I think we need something similar to an FAA type medical...as flawed as it is

Then rogue state governors will be able to ban gun ownership over public health issues.

For those who haven't heard, the governor of NM has banned hand guns in public parks in Albuquerque by using a false public heath order. She has stated that she will abolish the 2nd amendment in NM, and then thw rest of the USA. But she does not realize the 2nd amendment was partly written so the citizens can protect themselves from their government. (the police have stated they will not enforce the public health order)

So my opinion is by having a FAA type medical certificate to own a gun will make it easier to take guns away from the law abiding folks. Also same with gun registration and concealed weapon permits.

But nowadays just about everything coming from the government is flawed one way or the other.

 

[frfly172]

The signs were present that the individual had mental health issues,and basically ignored.

 

[TCABM]

… For those who haven't heard, the governor of NM has banned hand guns in public parks in Albuquerque by using a false public heath order. ….

The first one was immediately enjoined, and the follow on one doesn’t seem enforceable. I.e., the Health Dept doesn’t have jurisdiction to enforce.

 

[wilkersk]

My attitude towards guns has slowly changed over the years. I used to believe that every citizen should receive at least a basic level firearms safety and marksmanship training. But, time has proven that to be an impractical real world view. I believe they call it "magical thinking" these days. There are just too many stupid and or mentally/emotionally deranged individuals in the world.

All discussion, all protestations, all expensive and unenforceable laws are pointless.

Therefore, the ONLY useful, logical, and meaningful form of gun control is the following: if there's a gun out, I'm the only one I trust to be in control of it.

 

[geezer]

Some of the issues here are that many people treat other people with hearing (Or speaking) problems as dumb or worse. I have had many friends with this type of issue, including a co worker who grew up with both parents both deaf and speech impaired, Note the words used there. I have been in his house, and interacted with both of his parents, and could see clearly that they seemed pretty dumb. In reality, they both had graduated from Gallaudet College for the deaf. At work, his father was denied promotion, as his superiors were not willing to give him a complex job, he had to have all his instructions in writing. Their son, my friend, learned to talk interacting with the neighbor kids, and they were not consistently nice to him.

That being said, this deaf man was fitted with hearing aids, and immediately started hearing what people had been saying about him all the time. A well balanced person would have turned around and pointed out that such talk was offensive, and he could hear now.

Unfortunately, he had a lifetime of subtle abuse, and had little confidence in verbally responding to such comments. He checked in to the hospital, and it would seem that they did not succeed in teaching how to react to such abuse, in a positive way.

A double failure, but it must be pointed out that they could not refuse to allow him to check out, as he was otherwise a functioning citizen.

Soon after hearing the details of where he had done the killings, and that these had been his friends and fellow players in simple games, I predicted that after he stopped running, and thought of what he had done, he would kill himself. For better or worse, that is what happened.

From another perspective, I have a very good friend who lives near the site of the shootings, and his sister is close enough that she heard the gunfire. I had an internet conversation with him the evening after the shooting, while he and his sister were in lockdown.

I do not intend to justify what he did, but do understand that some who died were the cause of the whole catastrophe.

 

[mandm]

As a strong supporter of the second amendment...I think we need something similar to an FAA type medical...as flawed as it is

It feels as though “popular” opinion is always changing, and rules are going left to right back to left again. When/if I can learn that I have no control in the rules (opposite of the ideologies taught in college and when younger) and learn not to care, I think/know I’d be better off. Anytime I form a viewpoint or care about a topic (that government has any say in), it is that disappointment that I want to avoid.

 

[Bob Noel]

I do not intend to justify what he did, but do understand that some who died were the cause of the whole catastrophe.

you just contradicted yourself.

 

[geezer]

As I said, he should have verbally taken issue with their words. Using his firearm is inexcusable.

I have had half a dozen friends who received such abuse without taking drastic action. I have been present when such things occurred, and did not myself take verbal action, as my friend did not want to "make waves".

My point was that the people he killed were a part of the set of people who had made fun of him, when he was unable to hear them. They did not stop when he got hearing aids, and could hear them. Therefore they were not entirely innocent bystanders when he reached his limit. Unfortunately, the military had given him the skills to kill with a rifle, and he used one.

Poking fun at people is not right, and people should not do it. Most of the time, the victim is powerless, and just takes it. We, as intelligent humans, should call out those who do such things, and put a stop to it.

My co worker who had parents both of whom were deaf mutes, punched a few kids for saying his parents were dumb, but soon quit, because the other kids jumped in against him, and he was beat up.

Fully equipped by nature, normal people have trouble understanding this.

 

[Zeldman]

I wish we would invest in mental health issues, it’s become a big problem.

FIFY

 

[NoBShere]

I put a substantial amount of blame for mass shootings on the major news networks, who glamorize the shooters and give them the attention and fame that they seek. Granted, the public has a right to know what is going on and who did it, but giving them endless attention and credibility isn't helping the matter.

That’s some next level California BS right there. Quick, how do I blame someone else so I don’t have to take responsibility for my own actions.

 

[Baked Potato]

That’s some next level California BS right there. Quick, how do I blame someone else so I don’t have to take responsibility for my own actions.

I'm not quite sure how a policy of "personal responsibility" is supposed to factor in on someone's decision making when they are planning a murder-suicide.

Obviously they are being influenced, in part, by external factors.

 

[RyanShort1]

That’s some next level California BS right there. Quick, how do I blame someone else so I don’t have to take responsibility for my own actions.

Well, go ask some police officers in your city how often suicides take place, and then find out how many of them get reported as such. It's a fairly well-known thing that unfortunately there tend to be copy-cats shortly after suicides and a lot of places deliberately choose to keep those things quiet. Mass shootings are very similar in that the weeks after an incident are often more volatile because of copy-cats. Obviously, each person is individually responsible for their evil actions, but copy-cat stuff is a real phenomenon.

 

[Racerx]

Well, go ask some police officers in your city how often suicides take place, and then find out how many of them get reported as such. It's a fairly well-known thing, that unfortunately there tend to be copy-cats shortly after suicides and a lot of places deliberately choose to keep those things quiet. Mass shootings are very similar in that the weeks after an incident are often more volatile because of copy-cats. Obviously, each person is individually responsible for their evil actions, but copy-cat stuff is a real phenomenon.

"Going postal" comes to mind.

 

[NoBShere]

I'm not quite sure how a policy of "personal responsibility" is supposed to factor in on someone's decision making when they are planning a murder-suicide.

Obviously they are being influenced, in part, by external factors.

Let me guess, you also blame video games and heavy metal music? Rather than focus on the difficult topic of mental health… squirrel, squirrel, squirrel.

 

[Morgan3820]

I’d like to see a victimized concealed carry permit holder sue these gun free zone places. So because you put a sign up on your business, I can’t defend myself and my constitutional rights end your door. Because I want to be able to defend myself, I’m discriminated against. I don’t know why this approach hasn’t been tried.

 

[Baked Potato]

I’d like to see a victimized concealed carry permit holder sue these gun free zone places. So because you put a sign up on your business, I can’t defend myself and my constitutional rights end your door. Because I want to be able to defend myself, I’m discriminated against. I don’t know why this approach hasn’t been tried.

The bill of rights is a contract between you and the government, not between two private parties.

 

[Bob Noel]

The bill of rights is a contract between you and the government, not between two private parties.

try making that claim when <insert any number of different activities... like hiring, firing, and such...>

 

[Baked Potato]

try making that claim when <insert any number of different activities... like hiring, firing, and such...>

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think employment discrimination laws are part of the bill of rights.

 

[CJones]

The appalling events in Lewiston, ME this week made me wonder how @Lawreston (Harley Reich) is doing. He's from just 20 miles from there, and hasn't logged on here since 2019.
Grant

It's interesting how this board has been around long enough that there has basically been slow roll-over of folks that used to be heavily active (you and I included) to a new herd of folks that are more active here. I expect there could be many Sociology/Psychology papers written in the future on the 'dynamics of online message boards over time'.

 

[drummer4468]

I agree and appreciate the above sentiments regarding the need to focus on mental health system overhaul. Let me be clear, I do not condone, justify, excuse, or at all minimize the inexcusability/atrocity of his actions. But the thing that continues to disappoint me is that this could have been easily prevented by not setting someone with pronounced severe mental illness out on the streets. If I understand correctly, his guy had a horrific plan, and he disclosed this plan to healthcare professionals. They proceeded to let him back out into the world without adequate care. Again, he is still very much responsible for his actions, but this whole chain of events could have been broken anywhere along the line by a healthcare system that actually gave a damn about patients' well-being.

While I strongly support law-abiding citizens' 2A rights, I also support stricter regulation. Yes, I'm aware that the weapon in question was purchased legally before the above mental illness came to light. I'm not opposed to psych evals and safety courses as prerequisites to firearms ownership.

 

[Bob Noel]

Again, the challenge is to come up with applicable objectives measures

(never mind the unconstitutionality)

 

[midwestpa24]

I agree and appreciate the above sentiments regarding the need to focus on mental health system overhaul. Let me be clear, I do not condone, justify, excuse, or at all minimize the inexcusability/atrocity of his actions. But the thing that continues to disappoint me is that this could have been easily prevented by not setting someone with pronounced severe mental illness out on the streets. If I understand correctly, his guy had a horrific plan, and he disclosed this plan to healthcare professionals. They proceeded to let him back out into the world without adequate care. Again, he is still very much responsible for his actions, but this whole chain of events could have been broken anywhere along the line by a healthcare system that actually gave a damn about patients' well-being.

While I strongly support law-abiding citizens' 2A rights, I also support stricter regulation. Yes, I'm aware that the weapon in question was purchased legally before the above mental illness came to light. I'm not opposed to psych evals and safety courses as prerequisites to firearms ownership.

Current laws don't really allow them to keep him off the streets. The lawyers and courts have hamstrung the justice system and the health care system. You can practically walk into the police station and announce you are going to break the law, but until you actually do they can't touch you.

 

[Salty]

Current laws don't really allow them to keep him off the streets. The lawyers and courts have hamstrung the justice system and the health care system. You can practically walk into the police station and announce you are going to break the law, but until you actually do they can't touch you.

They can’t do anything until you actually break the law? Oh, if only this were true.

It bothers me to know that anyone thinks something should be done to people who haven't yet broken the law.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Again, the challenge is to come up with applicable objectives measures

(never mind the unconstitutionality)

Yup. You could end up with someone, say a new mother dealing with postpartum depression, who gets prescribed a medication to treat it but then gets put on a registry that prevents her from owning any weapons. It's an area that would create a complete quagmire of legal issues.

 

[midwestpa24]

They can’t do anything until you actually break the law? Oh, if only this were true.

It bothers me to know that anyone thinks something should be done to people who haven't yet broken the law.

I know exactly what you are saying, and I'm not disagreeing or offering a solution. But how many of the recent mass shootings or attacks were riddled with warning signs and could have been prevented, but our laws and freedoms don't allow for it. Restrictions on guns aren't going to change that.

 

[Salty]

I know exactly what you are saying, and I'm not disagreeing or offering a solution. But how many of the recent mass shootings or attacks were riddled with warning signs and could have been prevented, but our laws and freedoms don't allow for it. Restrictions on guns aren't going to change that.

I would suggest that there are far better ways of dealing with those warning signs other than taking away their freedoms. I would suggest attempting to take away their freedoms is probably going to make the situation more likely to become an issue.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I know exactly what you are saying, and I'm not disagreeing or offering a solution. But how many of the recent mass shootings or attacks were riddled with warning signs and could have been prevented, but our laws and freedoms don't allow for it. Restrictions on guns aren't going to change that.

 

[RyanShort1]

Keep in mind that some friends in Israel are re-thinking their stance right now. Their gun laws got more restrictive, and then this past month, a ton of military-trained IDF people were part of those who died because they couldn't defend themselves during the invasion by Hamas. Everything is a tradeoff. If you go with stricter gun laws, you have a more defenseless population against tyrants AND against genuine enemies. Those who advocate for gun control can't really say with certainty that the proliferation of firearms hasn't actually prevented tragedies of other kinds. Most of the people here in the US, and in many other countries are pretty soft and unrealistic about the genuine threats that are kept at bay by responsible weapons owners. I can tell you that a TON of my friends here in Texas, while genuinely loving our neighbors, are also extremely concerned that there may be a large number of mafia and other types who have infiltrated across the border and we aren't interested in giving up any of our weapons. That's a non-starter of an idea. I've heard stories from people in Del Rio that would make the hair stand up on your neck.

 

[TCABM]

The history of institutionalizing the mentally ill and deinstitutionalization is interesting and largely hinges on the invention of anti-psychotic pharmaceuticals.

Certain societal trends may correlate, so the question is whether the pendulum swung too far.

 

[Racerx]

It bothers me to know that anyone thinks something should be done to people who haven't yet broken the law.

If you walk into a bar and tell the tender I'm gonna get ****faced and then drive home. The bar tender would get sued if he DIDNT take your keys.

 

[Salty]

If you walk into a bar and tell the tender I'm gonna get ****faced and then drive home. The bar tender would get sued if he DIDNT take your keys.

i don’t spend much time in bars these days, but I doubt any are going to take keys from someone without their permission, especially based on nothing more than a silly statement.

 

[Racerx]

i don’t spend much time in bars these days, but I doubt any are going to take keys from someone without their permission, especially based on nothing more than a silly statement.

A friend of mine was at another friend's bar for an event. The one got plastered, tried driving home. They stopped him before he got to his truck. Got him an Uber. Forced him in the Uber. Somehow got his keys back. Jumped out of the Uber and attempted to drive home before he rear ended an unrelated drunk halfway home. Couldn't make the 7 mile odyssey. Bar owner got sued for overserving.