OneCharlieTango
Cleared for Takeoff
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OneCharlieTango
Let's Discuss Manned EVTOL's
- Thread starter AceWannaBe
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They do, to the tune of around 16 billion dollars for the fuel used to run them.
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
That doesn't count the state subsidies:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...sidising-worlds-biggest-fossil-fuel-companies
The EV subsidies have a cap to each manufacturer
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/electric-vehicles-for-tax-credit
SkyChaser
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SkyChaser
Subsidizing fuel is not the same as subsidizing the cars. EVs are currently subsidized on both "fuel" and the actual cars. I don't appreciate the subsidies for electric cars because my tax dollars could be doing something productive instead of going to someone who can afford to buy a $40,000, $50,000, $60,000 or $70,000 car.
I am only aware of one-- Bill Burr.
I don't think we're willing to accept the same level of risk today that they accepted back then.
Oh brother.
I'm an engineer. I have been creating new technology all my life, with patents and awards to prove it. But that also means I have some ability to assess technical viability.
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3G
I mean it’s not like they haven’t been to Mars, Jupiter, or even left the solar system or anything. I find it hard to believe nothing was learned from those efforts or from manned space programs, either.
But that was my point….all this transferrable knowledge, yet there are things we still learn. So is it unreasonable to take the sum of what we know, do some experimenting and test with some limits so we can make technological advances?
None of that is market viability…it’s research and development/developmental testing to validate the current state of the art. What is learned from those experiments can be used to inform future work. From a risk management standpoint, I can certainly understand reasons why the race organizer might want the downtime exclusion, specifically because of valid risks involved with speed events.
Yet electric cars are technically viable and you still discount them. They have proven themselves for some years.
I agree the subsidies are not the same. The car subsidy will go away and the fuel subsidy won't. If I had an EV, my "fuel" isn't subsidized any more than the "fuel" for my electric stove. The EV would be plugged in at night at my house. The city owns the electric plant here and isn't subsidized.
SkyChaser
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SkyChaser
They put in a solar "garden" in the fields near my house when I lived in MN. Both the state and the federal government heavily subsidized the project. Unless you're planning to solely use electricity produced by coal-burning power plants, your fuel for your electric car would also be subsidized. And I certainly hope that the electric car subsidies go away. Research grants, I can understand and get behind. What doesn't make sense is rewarding people who either can't handle their own finances and are buying a car that is worth their entire yearly income or rewarding people who already make a very good salary. Especially when the government really should be putting that money towards paying down the debt and funding more important things.
I'm sorry- you are partly correct. Here in Nebraska, they use mostly coal and I forgot about the federal coal subsidy. Natural gas is also subsidized, so EV's do get subsidized "fuel" as well as ICE cars. AFAIK, wind energy isn't subsidized in the same way although the companies behind those projects get tax credits and loan guarantees for a time period. So yes, EV's do get "fuel" subsidies
FYI: There is an Advisory Circular for the Type Certification of Powered-Lift
10 seconds and google prove you wrong. Again.
Picturing the Past: A race between a plane and a train in 1910
Mount Pulaski is celebrating its 175th anniversary this weekend.
www.sj-r.com
No, it took you nearly 2 years to find that. The quoted post was from Dec 2022, and it's September 2024 now. Two years > 10 seconds.10 seconds and google prove you wrong. Again.
Picturing the Past: A race between a plane and a train in 1910
Mount Pulaski is celebrating its 175th anniversary this weekend.www.sj-r.com
lol. Lame. But it’s all you got.
But it has been two more years of no real progress with evtols
Not in the USA.
China is flying passengers in them as of this year:
EHang takes passengers on eVTOL demo flights in China
The flights took place as part of a tourism initiative called Low-Altitude Tourism in Wencheng, Chuck Martin reports for IOT World Today.
China’s EHang celebrates passenger flights on eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng
Chinese UAM company EHang has completed the first passenger-carrying flights of its eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng, China.
www.airport-technology.com
Except it depends on your viewpoint and definition of “progress.” From the aircraft certification side eVTOLs have accomplished more in a shorter time frame than most other aircraft have done today or in years past.
I can think of 3 current clean-sheet aircraft that are taking longer in the cert process plus benefit from decades long design principals, a long-established certification regulatory structure, and methods/practices from other aircraft models.
In comparison, eVTOLs have zero long established design principals, regulatory structure, or previous models to pull from. So while eVTOL development may appear to you to be slow, its actually moving at a rate unheard of in the industry.
And the fact the CAAC has type certificated 2 eVTOLs with a 3rd in the TC, and started exports those eVTOLs, the clock has started for the other regulatory authorities to catch up. My bet is 2028 will be the year that the FAA and EASA will catch up to the CAAC and the race will be on from there.
Ah yes, THIS will be the year they really take off.
Actually, in China, they have.
lol. Always the comedian.
What's funny? eVTOLS exist now and carry passengers.
EHang takes passengers on eVTOL demo flights in China
The flights took place as part of a tourism initiative called Low-Altitude Tourism in Wencheng, Chuck Martin reports for IOT World Today.
China’s EHang celebrates passenger flights on eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng
Chinese UAM company EHang has completed the first passenger-carrying flights of its eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng, China.
www.airport-technology.com
From your own article.What's funny? eVTOLS exist now and carry passengers.
EHang takes passengers on eVTOL demo flights in China
The flights took place as part of a tourism initiative called Low-Altitude Tourism in Wencheng, Chuck Martin reports for IOT World Today.www.militaryaerospace.com
China’s EHang celebrates passenger flights on eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng
Chinese UAM company EHang has completed the first passenger-carrying flights of its eVTOL aircraft in Wencheng, China.
Always funny. As if tiny tourism operations in China are any type of “success”. Not in my book. And as shown, it’ll be this year for sure. Lol
Ha. Since it actually happened LAST year.
So what is in your book? What would you need to see for an eVTOL to be considered successful in your eyes?
Well, just for a start, and mind you, this isn’t everything it would take…. Actually seeing one in real life make a few back to back flights in person. Just as a start. I know, that’s asking so much.
So, you feel we should take seriously an article in the past that said it would happen in the future as if that means it’s now actually happened? Okey dokey then.
You are cherry-picking the data. Read BOTH references.
Emphasis mine.
As for tourism operations, I've been to China. You almost certainly haven't. Baiyun (White Cloud) Mountain (in Guangzhou) does very well. As does Shenzhen Safari Park. Suzhou is famous for their gardens. The Yu Garden in Shanghai is popular. Wencheng already has the scenic spots and people visit them. They are just adding something else to the existing operations.
A tiny tourism operation (in china, very different risk acceptance) doing very short sight flights, not yet in full swing is not impressive. It’s kind of a sign of how wrong you are frankly.
You haven't shown I'm wrong- you are just stating an uninformed opinion.
I once paid for a helicopter ride in Orlando. it was nice, not too expensive, and only 10 minutes. This would be the same sort of thing. A quick ride around the waterfalls. In China, if someone makes the government look bad, that person tends to disappear. Even very wealthy people. That tends to help a lot with making sure things are safe. Doing any sort of flights is far more than you thought was possible now, as per your statement below:
Your premise is that China has a superior safety record, and what’s more, that it’s due to the government killing anyone that has an accident? But not that accidents are covered up by the government. Nah, they’d never falsify a safety record to make them look better. Pretty funny stuff.
Not really. There are several places you can travel to see an eVTOL fly. Its how I watched a couple fly. Unfortunately none flying in FL at the moment that I know of. Joby did perform several demo flights off the Downtown heliport in NYC last year of which there are a few videos on them if that is good enough?
Curious. Since you're not impressed with the EH216 tourist flights, where do you think they should be flying-wise... given the EH216 was TC'd only 11 months ago and hasnt finished their complete CAAC AOC certification yet? And what existing operation are you comparing it to, if any?
I didn't say that China has a better safety record. No one said that anyone was killed except you. With Weibo, WeChat, and other internal social media, it's difficult to "cover up" accidents of this sort. Jack Ma didn't "toe the line" and he "disappeared" for a while.
Jack Ma: Alibaba founder seen in China after long absence
The 58-year-old reportedly visited a school that he founded in his hometown of Hangzhou.
www.bbc.com
What to Know About the Detained Billionaire at the Center of China’s Property Crisis
Hui Ka Yan, founder of China Evergrande Group, has been put under police control. Here’s everything you need to know about his rise and fall.
As for safety, I'd rather fly in the EH216 than the Boeing Starliner. If the US government wasn't watching them now, I wouldn't fly in their planes either.
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