brien23
Cleared for Takeoff
Is their a fix for the Let L-13 Spar.
Let L-13 Spar
- Thread starter brien23
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Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think there is one that has been proposed - it adds reinforcements - but I don't think it's been approved, either in Europe or US.
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Legislative rule meet market:
BLANIK L-13 sailplanes
11-26-11
N99946 S/N 025822 DOM 05/07/74 TT 4284.3 & N90867 S/N 025727 DOM 03/12/74 TT 2890.9 . Both were professionally restored (inside and out) and painted within the past two years. They are 2 of the best looking and cared for gliders in Florida. Each sailplane is in need of the wing-spar AD, but our club cannot afford those costs along with our other responsibilities--our loss is your gain. N90867 has red trim and N99946 has black trim. Both gliders have basic instrument panels. These sailplanes are located in Pensacola, Florida, but neither comes with a trailer. We can deliver within 250 miles for no additional cost, or you can bring your own trailer--we have plenty of hands to help load them up. These beautifully restored sailplanes can be brought back to flight status for the cost of the AD, converted for use as flight simulators, or used as great “attention grabber” advertising models.
$5000 each or both for $8500—prices are negotiable
Pete @ prohrig@yahoo.com or 850-936-8024
BLANIK L-13 sailplanes
11-26-11
N99946 S/N 025822 DOM 05/07/74 TT 4284.3 & N90867 S/N 025727 DOM 03/12/74 TT 2890.9 . Both were professionally restored (inside and out) and painted within the past two years. They are 2 of the best looking and cared for gliders in Florida. Each sailplane is in need of the wing-spar AD, but our club cannot afford those costs along with our other responsibilities--our loss is your gain. N90867 has red trim and N99946 has black trim. Both gliders have basic instrument panels. These sailplanes are located in Pensacola, Florida, but neither comes with a trailer. We can deliver within 250 miles for no additional cost, or you can bring your own trailer--we have plenty of hands to help load them up. These beautifully restored sailplanes can be brought back to flight status for the cost of the AD, converted for use as flight simulators, or used as great “attention grabber” advertising models.
$5000 each or both for $8500—prices are negotiable
Pete @ prohrig@yahoo.com or 850-936-8024
Tom-D
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Tom-D
If we are talking AD 2010-18-05 then no there has been no approved repair for those which are cracked. but it is still an inspection, but no method for the inspection has been approved as it is now written..
Tom-D
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Tom-D
This is a "NOTE" included in the AD.
Note: This AD differs from the MCAI and/or service information as follows: The MCAI requires the owner/operator to submit data regarding certain operations including aerobatic operations, to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Aircraft Industries, a.s. so they can determine whether further flight is permitted. The FAA does not require such data to be collected for operations in the United States. The FAA is relying on an inspection and/or modification program approved specifically for this AD to detect and correct cracks before further flight. Until such a program is approved, owners/operators may apply for an alternative method of compliance (AMOC) following 14 CFR 39.19 described in paragraph (f)(1) of this AD. The FAA will work with EASA and Aircraft Industries a.s. to determine if an acceptable level of safety is achieved with the AMOC proposal.
Note: This AD differs from the MCAI and/or service information as follows: The MCAI requires the owner/operator to submit data regarding certain operations including aerobatic operations, to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Aircraft Industries, a.s. so they can determine whether further flight is permitted. The FAA does not require such data to be collected for operations in the United States. The FAA is relying on an inspection and/or modification program approved specifically for this AD to detect and correct cracks before further flight. Until such a program is approved, owners/operators may apply for an alternative method of compliance (AMOC) following 14 CFR 39.19 described in paragraph (f)(1) of this AD. The FAA will work with EASA and Aircraft Industries a.s. to determine if an acceptable level of safety is achieved with the AMOC proposal.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
There has been no proposed AMOC that has been accepted by EASA or the factory. The wing spar is built up in layers with rivets buried in internal layers. There is no acceptable means to complete an eddy current check for cracks on interior rivet lines.
The logging of hours as to how many winch launch vs aero tow, two seats filed vs solo, how many dual or solo acro flights and g loads were not required in US as previously mentioned. It is also not required in many foreign countries and it was never required in the aircraft manuals. The data requested by the factory to determin exceptions to the AD could not be met.
The AD came as a result of a wing spar failure at the wing root during a winch launch that killed a student and instructor in Europe.
The logging of hours as to how many winch launch vs aero tow, two seats filed vs solo, how many dual or solo acro flights and g loads were not required in US as previously mentioned. It is also not required in many foreign countries and it was never required in the aircraft manuals. The data requested by the factory to determin exceptions to the AD could not be met.
The AD came as a result of a wing spar failure at the wing root during a winch launch that killed a student and instructor in Europe.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
any new spars?
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Sounds like a great idea. New spar into the wing is not the easiest to do. Even reskinning a wing is tough. The metal thickness is not standard and the thickness of the metal was part of the certification. Be easier just to re wing the glider with two new wings. The L-13 is out of production. I'm not sure about the L-23 production line, but the wings are different. The L-13 has flaps, the L-23 does not.
I would expect that two new wings would cost more than the market value of the aircraft. Again a $15K or more cost to fix a $15K market value glider. Would the value increase with new wings? Hard to predict. The market value of L-13s were about $15K before the grounding. The market value of other fiberglass two seat gliders, $35K -$45K very used. New 2 seat gliders are over $100K plus.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
Sounds like junk.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
They were nice flying gliders, nice control harmony, taught a lot of students to fly, 28/1 L/d. Metal, so the could stay outside. Very nice for spin training. It's sad to think they will not fly again, but the economics of repair are not there.
Hard thing, for some clubs, the L-13 was their only two seat training glider. And insurance does not cover an AD grounding the aircraft. Lost investment, lost capital.
Tom-D
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BillTIZ
Final Approach
Agreed on the life issues.
The market wanted sexy fiberglas gliders that were sleek with a performance of 36/1 L/d or better. Poor clubs could afford old passed over metal gliders, not new fiberglass.
Other clubs still flew American made Schweizer 2-33A tube and fabric gliders. They could be had for $9K in good condition. Today those old fabric 2-33s go for $15K with the L-13s off the market.
Not everyone can afford $50K plus gliders, and there is no easy fix for the L-13.
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's our club, right there. The L-13 was a solid trainer - in some ways, it was more complex that most: retractable gear and flaps. I did spin it a few times, too.
Some of the guys in our club managed to find a 2-33, just before prices started to climb. It took a lot of work to get it airworthy, it had been taken apart and stored in a barn for almost 20 years, but it's back in the air again.
Europe life-limits a lot of things that we don't in the US. I'm sure some of that came into play with the design and the decisions made after the accident.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Thanks Tony, so $6500 € =$8700USD plus at least that much again for labor to install. Total cost, ~$15K into a $15K glider that maybe worth $16K when done?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
There's a different way to look at this, What would a glider that you could fix and fly it the rest of your life be worth?
You don't always want to sell this stuff.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
True, and now you can pick up L-13 airframes for less than $5-10K, put another $15K into it plus other updates and you might have a good plane to fly a few years at a little above market value.
Tom-D
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tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
yea you basically get to buy the glider back from yourself. but you can't get anything else nearly as nice for the price. Of course the repair still has to be approved in the US anyway...
Tom-D
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Tom-D
I think the hardest part will be finding some one to build the parts.
How many aircraft are we talking about. ?
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
there are about 200 in the US. not sure how many are already hangar queens for other reasons and how many would actually be returned to service.
my understanding is that the repair that is currently approved in Europe doesn't involve any part building by the mechanic. The kit includes the new hardware etc and the mechanic drills out the old rivets and installs the new hardware
Tom-D
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Tom-D
What's the FAAs thoughts on the repair, ? are they going to approve it here ?
what's the costs of the kit.?
tonycondon
Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
The FAA has not approved any repair yet. I suspect they will approve this one, at least I don't see why they wouldn't. Cost of the kit is 6500 Euros like Bill said, then you have the labor to do the work.