Lawyers of POA, quick question

[Teller1900]

My wife and I just got a form in the mail from the US Bankruptcy Court in the District of Maine; our former landlord is filing Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. It was a husband and wife couple that owned the condo we lived in for about a year. They never sent us our deposit back, but we aren't really all too concerned about that. We just want to make sure we aren't supposed to be doing anything. There's a deadline listed to "See a determination of automatic dismissal for failure to file all information required by section 521(a)(1) is 75 days from the date of filing the case." I assume that's only if we were an actual creditor seeking payment, but I figured you good folks here could tell me more. I can PM the form (B9A - Official Form 9A - Chapter 7 Individual or Joint Debtor No Asset Case) if you need to see it. Thanks!

 

[SCCutler]

OK. They listed you all because they owe you money; do nothing, and you get nothing. In a no-asset case, you're likely to get nothing anyway. You cannot even file a proof-of-claim, because (like we note) it's a no-asset case.

If you want, email me a scan of the form to: scutler (at) cutler-smith (dot) com, and I'll verify what I am telling you, and maybe take a quick gander at the file on the federal case management system.

You are likely to meet all expectations, and get nothing.

 

[lawingr]

OK. They listed you all because they owe you money; do nothing, and you get nothing. In a no-asset case, you're likely to get nothing anyway. You cannot even file a proof-of-claim, because (like we note) it's a no-asset case.

If you want, email me a scan of the form to: scutler (at) cutler-smith (dot) com, and I'll verify what I am telling you, and maybe take a quick gander at the file on the federal case management system.

You are likely to meet all expectations, and get nothing.

One addendum to what SCCutler said. It may be a no-asset case now, but may not be in the future. I can't tell you how many times we get the initial notice stating that it is a no-asset chapter 7 and not to file a proof of claim. Then, low and behold, a while down the road we get a notice that they may have found some assets and they set a date by which we have to have our proof of claim in. Those trustee's are motivated folk to find some assets!

That said, SC's right on - no file, no real chance of anything

 

[AdamZ]

And yet one more thing. In some states Land lords are required to maintain Tenants deposits in a seperate escrow accounts. Since the money MAY have been held in Trust it MAY give you an argument that your claim should be given priority over other unsecured creditors.

 

[wsuffa]

One addendum to what SCCutler said. It may be a no-asset case now, but may not be in the future. I can't tell you how many times we get the initial notice stating that it is a no-asset chapter 7 and not to file a proof of claim. Then, low and behold, a while down the road we get a notice that they may have found some assets and they set a date by which we have to have our proof of claim in. Those trustee's are motivated folk to find some assets!

There are a LOT of asset searches being commissioned these days by lenders. Lots. You would be surprised (or not) at the number of assets that turn up in those sorts of searches. Maybe not in this case, but certainly in others. Some folks who have taken lots of debt from banks and others have found very creative ways to hide assets.

 

[Teller1900]

OK. They listed you all because they owe you money; do nothing, and you get nothing. In a no-asset case, you're likely to get nothing anyway. You cannot even file a proof-of-claim, because (like we note) it's a no-asset case.

If you want, email me a scan of the form to: scutler (at) cutler-smith (dot) com, and I'll verify what I am telling you, and maybe take a quick gander at the file on the federal case management system.

You are likely to meet all expectations, and get nothing.

Thanks Spike! We're not worried about getting anything from them; we're not going to kick them while they're down for 800 bucks, or whatever it was. Just wanted to make sure the court didn't expect us to do anything to opt out.

 

[Skip Miller]

Thanks Spike! We're not worried about getting anything from them; we're not going to kick them while they're down for 800 bucks, or whatever it was. Just wanted to make sure the court didn't expect us to do anything to opt out.

That's a nice, gentle attitude but please consider seeking tax advice from an expert before concluding your thoughts on the matter. You now have an $800 loss for your income taxes, but I have no idea what documentation the IRS requires for this. You may need to file something with the bankruptcy court to protect your tax writeoff.... No sense in losing the money twice!

-Skip

 

[Teller1900]

That's a nice, gentle attitude but please consider seeking tax advice from an expert before concluding your thoughts on the matter. You now have an $800 loss for your income taxes, but I have no idea what documentation the IRS requires for this. You may need to file something with the bankruptcy court to protect your tax writeoff.... No sense in losing the money twice!

-Skip

I never thought of that. This is probably a question for a tax expert, as you mentioned, but how would I prove that they actually owed me the full sum of the security deposit? I'll call my dad's tax guy this afternoon.

 

[Ghery]

I never thought of that. This is probably a question for a tax expert, as you mentioned, but how would I prove that they actually owed me the full sum of the security deposit? I'll call my dad's tax guy this afternoon.

Copy of the rental agreement, perhaps?

 

[Teller1900]

Copy of the rental agreement, perhaps?

That was my first thought, but all that proves is that we paid them the money in the first place. They don't necessarily own us any or all of the deposit if they had to use any of that money to clean after we left (they shouldn't have had to, but who knows). Just a thought.

 

[SCCutler]

Now, Matt:

If the guy's legitimately broke and has no money to pay you, it might not be worth your while to bother with it, but ignoring that for the moment, I don't like your attitude.

It is NOT your job to prove that the landlord did not have to use your deposit to repair damage; it is almost always the landlord's job to prove if any portion of a deposit should not be paid back, and nearly every state includes some pretty explicit tenant-protection laws on that subject.

 

[Teller1900]

Now, Matt:

If the guy's legitimately broke and has no money to pay you, it might not be worth your while to bother with it, but ignoring that for the moment, I don't like your attitude.

It is NOT your job to prove that the landlord did not have to use your deposit to repair damage; it is almost always the landlord's job to prove if any portion of a deposit should not be paid back, and nearly every state includes some pretty explicit tenant-protection laws on that subject.

That a fair point, Spike. I have a call in to my dad's tax guy (my tax guy, by default), so hopefully tomorrow I'll find out what/if there's anything I can or should be doing.

 

[lawingr]

I may be oversimplifying this . . . you received notice of the bankruptcy which means you are on the creditor matrix. Maybe the debtor's attorney or the trustee could provide you documentation showing how much the landlord listed as owing you?

 

[SCCutler]

I may be oversimplifying this . . . you received notice of the bankruptcy which means you are on the creditor matrix. Maybe the debtor's attorney or the trustee could provide you documentation showing how much the landlord listed as owing you?

You could ask... there was not a Creditor's list with claim amounts on file.