Landing question

DavidWhite

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
7,207
Location
49
Display Name

Display name:
DW
So, there is this giant toll road that is being built about 7 miles east of my home airport. It is flat, deserted, and long. I was flying over it today and though "boy, I could land on that" So, is there anything that says I can't? I know that "so long as operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface" and I know that could be easily accomplished.

Hell, if I landed out there I'd even leave $5 for the gubmint! (It IS a toll road, of course!)
 
I guess what I'm saying is, I want to land on the toll road. Is there anything they can violate me for if I do it?
 
So, there is this giant toll road that is being built about 7 miles east of my home airport. It is flat, deserted, and long. I was flying over it today and though "boy, I could land on that" So, is there anything that says I can't? I know that "so long as operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface" and I know that could be easily accomplished.

Hell, if I landed out there I'd even leave $5 for the gubmint! (It IS a toll road, of course!)

Not as far as the FAA is concerned, you can land anywhere you consider safe. As far as locals go, that's a different subject.
 
Not as far as the FAA is concerned, you can land anywhere you consider safe. As far as locals go, that's a different subject.

Well, it's in the middle of nowhere, and they have about a 3 mile paved section between 2 unpaved sections, so it would take the policia awhile to get there (but like I said, it's the middle of nowhere, so I don't think anyone would really care anyways)
 
I guess what I'm saying is, I want to land on the toll road. Is there anything they can violate me for if I do it?

I landed at Flying J once out I 20 W of Abilene for fuel on a pipeline run when I was flying into a 70 knot headwind (made for a long day with a quick trip home lol). Some old lady called the FAA, they called me and asked if the plane had an auto gas STC, all he cared about. He told me the old lady couldn't believe it when he told her there was no rule to that forbade it. He even told me he was fine with it and would much rather have me do that than run out of fuel.
 
I landed at Flying J once out I 20 W of Abilene for fuel on a pipeline run when I was flying into a 70 knot headwind (made for a long day with a quick trip home lol). Some old lady called the FAA, they called me and asked if the plane had an auto gas STC, all he cared about. He told me the old lady couldn't believe it when he told her there was no rule to that forbade it. He even told me he was fine with it and would much rather have me do that than run out of fuel.


Sounds like it's bueno, I think I shall land on the toll road.

What they are building is (I think) an extension off of TX 130

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_130
 
I'm hoping there won't be workers out there tomorrow, since it's memorial day.
 
I guess what I'm saying is, I want to land on the toll road. Is there anything they can violate me for if I do it?

I had wondered about this kind of thing myself. My yard is 300ft long and I've considered getting an ultralight for shagrins.
 
i'm sure you surveyed the surface already - it is a construction site and could have the associated hazards involved. be safe.
 
i'm sure you surveyed the surface already - it is a construction site and could have the associated hazards involved. be safe.

Thanks, yes, I flew over at 500' today and will take a few lower surveying passes before I actually land.
 
I'll be the bad guy and throw this out there...

"Is it worth your ticket?"

All it takes is one over-zealous bureaucrat who doesn't like it and a bad "ruling" from the Chief Council's office, and you're done forever David.

You wouldn't win on your single available appeal to the NTSB if the Chief Council said you'd violated "Careless and Wreckless". Not in today's environment.

Land on it if you must... it might be one of your last landings anywhere.
 
But why is it careless and wreckless? If all the proper precautions are taken, I don't see why not.
 
I didn't say it was. I just said all it'll take is for one wrong bureaucrat to think so, and he's in for a world of hurt and legal fees.

Generally, the public frowns upon airplanes alighting on things that aren't airports.

Like I said, I'll be the bad guy and say it... it's his decision. Some high-donating "I'm scared of everything" person who has a politician in their back pocket, or someone with a cell phone video who hands it to the media, could make his life a living hell.

What do you think the FSDO will do if there's a media camera in their face asking them if it's legal to land on half-finished toll roads? Think about it.
 
It's so far out in the middle of nowhere, I don't think cell phone cameras are an issue.
 
I'm really curious what R&W thinks about this.
 
I'll be the bad guy and throw this out there...

"Is it worth your ticket?"

All it takes is one over-zealous bureaucrat who doesn't like it and a bad "ruling" from the Chief Council's office, and you're done forever David.

You wouldn't win on your single available appeal to the NTSB if the Chief Council said you'd violated "Careless and Wreckless". Not in today's environment.

Land on it if you must... it might be one of your last landings anywhere.
Nope, you get caught you say 'Yeah, it was running real rough so I set it down to sump the fuel.'

Damn don't any of y'all know how to talk your way out of trouble? Lol
 
I used to do a lot of off-field landings (most of them intentional).

Before you get too excited, check with your insurance carrier. They may have something to say about your plans.

You should also check with the owners of the road (or managers thereof).

If that road isn't available to vehicles at the moment, what makes you think it's available to aircraft? You may be guilty of trespass.

When considering 91.13, careless and reckless can be applied to a lot of things. Careless may simply be failure to comply with 91.103: do you know the runway length, width, weight bearing capacity, surface condition, proximity to obstacles, etc? It's a required part of your preflight; know your destination runway, and the performance applicable thereto. Do you know the gradient?

Seems like a minor thing right now, perhaps; it's a big stretch of cement that 's gotta be an easy land, right? How's it going to look to an FAA inspector, a police officer, a judge, your insurance adjustor, or even a jury, after the fact?

You land, nothing happens. You take off, and have an engine failure. You don't manage to put it back on the ground where you started. Property damage occurs. One lone worker was out there doing overtime. He's hurt. You're stuck on the road and the toll agency makes you take the wings off and truck it home. There's a bad landing and you've got a buckled firewall. The list is endless.

Most of the time, off field landings are fun and if you've never done it before, even a bit adventurous. If you've got to deal with your insurance carrier after the fact, it may be a lot more adventurous than you thought. Remember, even with something as seemingly simple as this, there's more than meets the eye, or more than you might consider at first blush.

Sort of like crossing the rockies in a light airplane...
 
David,

IF you decide to do this then PLEASE don't do so without first WALKING the entire stretch that you plan to land on. As someone else noted, it IS a construction site and may have plenty of large FOD strewn about that you can't see from the air.
 
Nope, you get caught you say 'Yeah, it was running real rough so I set it down to sump the fuel.'

Damn don't any of y'all know how to talk your way out of trouble? Lol

No, it only has to be running a teensy, teensy bit rough for him to justify that.:rofl:

Seriously, though tempting, I think you should not do it, even if there is no rule broken. Someone could give you hassle just because they could. $10k in lawyer bills and you may come out intact, but your pockets lighter.
 
Personally, I wouldn't if it was just for fun. 20 years ago I suspect it would've been a bit different, but these days... just not worth it. I'd be most worried about being cited with trespassing. I think in Texas they can shoot you for that. Doubly so since it's clearly premeditated since you posted it on the internet.

If it was previously coordinated or I had reason to, absolutely. Given the fact that you're likeable, you could probably talk the manager into allowing it.

Then again, glider pilots to landouts all the time, and seem to not have issues with it. I find the concept a bit interesting and am surprised that they don't get more complaints about it, but it probably has a lot to do with where you were raised. In New York, that wouldn't have gone over well. Of course, people weren't very friendly there, either.
 
So, there is this giant toll road that is being built about 7 miles east of my home airport. It is flat, deserted, and long. I was flying over it today and though "boy, I could land on that" So, is there anything that says I can't? I know that "so long as operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface" and I know that could be easily accomplished.

Hell, if I landed out there I'd even leave $5 for the gubmint! (It IS a toll road, of course!)
So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot. I've got the hours for it, I'm just not old enough. I like being able to have atleast a minute amount of control over things in my life, however age isn't one. Some days I feel like I'm 17 going on 50, getting treated like a kid gets old pretty quick. Age is such a stupid and arbitrary number, 120 days will NOT make any difference in my piloting ability.

It's just....really dumb. I can fly all night, but if I drive on the road past midnight before 6am during the week I am committing a misdeamenor.

<sigh>
Are you still within this 120 day window?:confused::rofl:
 
I'll be the bad guy and throw this out there...

"Is it worth your ticket?"

All it takes is one over-zealous bureaucrat who doesn't like it and a bad "ruling" from the Chief Council's office, and you're done forever David.

You wouldn't win on your single available appeal to the NTSB if the Chief Council said you'd violated "Careless and Wreckless". Not in today's environment.

Land on it if you must... it might be one of your last landings anywhere.

This.

And I have to ask: why? Because it's cool? Or because you want bragging rights? Is it worth your career?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
You never know. Personally, I would not take that risk.

I'm in the camp that asks: where's the benefit?

It could easily end badly and there is only one responsible party...

We were all kids once so we understand the desire. Those of us that have been around the block a few times know that the outcome isn't as certain as it seems to the OP now.
 
Nope, you get caught you say 'Yeah, it was running real rough so I set it down to sump the fuel.'

Damn don't any of y'all know how to talk your way out of trouble? Lol

Don't forget to say Raaajaaaaaah first.

David,

IF you decide to do this then PLEASE don't do so without first WALKING the entire stretch that you plan to land on. As someone else noted, it IS a construction site and may have plenty of large FOD strewn about that you can't see from the air.

Ditto that. Also if the asphalt is soft you could do some damage to either the plane or the roadway
 
I'm in the camp that asks: where's the benefit?...

That is the real question that needs to be answered in any situation like this because risk should be dependent on benefit. The greater the benefit, the greater the tollerable risk.

In this situation I also ask, "What's the benefit?"
 
What ever happen to the idiot who landed on the beach on Long Island because his engine was "running a little bit rough."?
 
If you decide to do this, make sure you video it and put it on YouTube. :D
 
Don't forget to say Raaajaaaaaah first.



Ditto that. Also if the asphalt is soft you could do some damage to either the plane or the roadway

Toll road is concrete.

Nobody is going to shoot you for trespassing on an under construction road in Texas. My house or some others bubbas house, yea, you might get shot ;).

My biggest concern is small debris on the road like nails from forms. Flat tires in the middle of nowhere can be a pain in the behind.
 
I used to ride my bike an a newly built but not opened yet long stretch of highway but I wouldn't land a plane on what you're describing.
If you decide to go ahead with it then I wouldn't post it either. I'd keep it to myself and just smile. Really, it's iffy as to how up tight folks would take it. You might become an "example" in a case.....
 
One thing that has kept me out of trouble for my entire flying career: "How would I explain this to an NTSB administrative law judge?".

Bob Gardner
 
One thing that has kept me out of trouble for my entire flying career: "How would I explain this to an NTSB administrative law judge?".

The line I use with folks in th field is "how will you write it up in the accident report?"
 
It's all about state/local laws for public property and the property owner for private property. You'll have to do some checking to find out what those laws are/who owns the property. The FAA doesn't care as long as you don't endanger anyone or their property.
 
I can pretty much guarantee you that the local authorities would consider it illegal and would at minimum hit you with a trespassing charge. From there they will cal the FSDO whom may decide to hit you with a careless and reckless for trespassing on a construction site. If something happens quite likely your insurance wont cover it.

If the media picks this up and reports your landing, which they would love to do on a slow day, you're pretty much screwed.

You are planning on being a career pilot - there is absolutely no reason to expose yourself to these risks, period.
 
Last edited:
You are planning on being a career pilot - there is absolutely no reason to expose yourself to these risks, period.

Hmmm, not having a career that involves years of Ramen.... That could be considered a benefit.:D
 
Back
Top