Landing improvements

joycem137

joycem137

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Apr 2, 2013
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199
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Novi, MI
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Display name:
Robin
When I was training for my PPL, I found it hard to handle landings. But since finishing my training, it feels like my landings have been improving a great deal. During training, I was flying 2-3 times a week with my instructor. After training, I fly maybe once a week with family and friends.

Despite the increased time between flights, every time I go out there now, my landings seem to improve a lot. They get softer, smoother, and more controlled. My friends comment that they sometimes don't even notice we've touched down and just suddenly realize, "Oh! We're already down!".

I suppose it's not that surprising, but I just think it's weird, since I'm flying less frequently now. I would have thought my skills would deteriorate with less frequent flying, but I guess I'm flying often enough to continue to improve. :)
 
There were two things that plagued me during training:
1) Rounding out close to the ground. I had a bad habit of rounding out way too high, because I was scared of the ground. Big scary thing.

2) Handling the flare. I didn't quite understand how to do the flare, and would struggle not to balloon or otherwise mess it up.

Obviously, I managed to do well enough/understand well enough to please my CFI and a DPE, but it wasn't until after reading a lot of stuff on this forum that I really began to feel more comfortable with landings for my own standards. :)
 
I had a similar experience. Never seemed to quite nail landings during training, but somewhere around 70-100 hours they seemed to come together quite a bit better. Even when flying considerably less. I'm not complaining. :)
 
Exact same thing happened with me. Landings got remarkably easier once I passed my check ride. I actually believe it is muscle memory that is in play here. I find myself leveling off and flaring the same way each time- so much so that my landings are remarkably similar in touch down each time. I'm not greasing them but I'm landing smoothly with a feeling of good control.
 
I ended up figuring out how to use power dynamically, to smooth my landings, after my checkride. What really drove it home was checking out in a 182, followed by a complex aircraft, as those don't tolerate being slammed as much as 172s.

And that 172 you like (as do I) lands better with someone in the back seat. An inch or two of aft CG can make a lot more difference than you might expect. And that particular 172 will handle a LOT of weight back there. Useful load is over 1000 lb, and I've never managed to get close to the aft CG limit.

Conditions have been fabulous for practicing finesse. Dead calm.

I think much of flying gets internalized after the checkride. That is, you "feel" the airplane much more. I'll bet you can see the ground track in a crosswind a whole lot better now, too.
 
Also, as far as pax go, airlines don't tend to grease them on very often (and rightfully so), and that's what they are used to. For me, a lot of my pax fly out of Midway-Chicago. Those Southwest 737s are dropping out of the sky to land on those 5100' runways :rofl: So most of my landings spur the comment: "Woah! That was so smooth!" And sometimes I am like, "Really?" So for a while, I may have thought I was better than I actually was ;)

But I definitely found that my landings improved after the 100 hour mark. But crosswind landings always need practice!
 
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I think one of the major factors in consistent landings is where the pilot is looking.

When landings are inconsistent, as a CFI I found the majority of times the problem was the student looking too far down the runway. IOW, the pilot would know what to do to get a good landing if he or she could only judge height better.

Here's a link to an article on the subject I wrote for the Cirrus Owner's forum:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d61m9axtt2nfqth/Wheretolook.pdf
 
you've probably noticed you're not overreacting to inputs while landing and that your motions are a lot more fluid. sometimes there's no replacement for experience.
 
My landings got a lot better when I stopped trying to short-field every one of them. Instead of trying to plant it on the numbers every time, I decided maybe it was OK to take a couple of hundred feet to let the speed bleed off and settle it on the way I wanted to. That, and switching from "flare" to "Full flaps, throttle at idle, see how long you can keep it off the ground" - that did wonders.
 
And now that general landings are under control,
let's go for the same level of comfort and proficiency with 20 knot crosswinds
(yeah, they come together with experience and confidence as well)
Then, life is good!
:D
 
DaleB said:
My landings got a lot better when I stopped trying to short-field every one of them. Instead of trying to plant it on the numbers every time, I decided maybe it was OK to take a couple of hundred feet to let the speed bleed off and settle it on the way I wanted to. That, and switching from "flare" to "Full flaps, throttle at idle, see how long you can keep it off the ground" - that did wonders.
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While I'm still pretty early in my training, I went through this issue the other day. I had some issues with the wind doing a 180 3 times during my flight, so I was floating way too long on several of the landings. The day before I nailed the numbers on both landings. Took the weekend off and regrouped. I came to the realization I was trying to force it down. The next lesson I let it float as long as it needed to, still made the first turn off with ease.
 
FlyGirlKHWO said:
nice piece of tutelage, Fast Eddie!
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Thanks!

By the way, before my Cirrus and then Sky Arrow, I had a Tiger:

10840771623_6d250761ed_z.jpg


And back in the 1980's an AA5 Traveler.

Great little planes!
 
DaleB said:
That, and switching from "flare" to "Full flaps, throttle at idle, see how long you can keep it off the ground" - that did wonders.
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Conditions permitting, that's my SOP.

If the stick hits the rear stop as the plane touches down, I'm happiest.

Not suitable for all winds or even all aircraft types, but has worked for me from Cubs to Aztecs.

I posted this to another thread - it was to compare GoPro field of view options, but gives you an idea of standard landings in my Sky Arrow. Be advised, the wide angles especially make the approaches look much lower/shallower than they really were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhycU4UV90k

My full flap stall speed is 39k, and if you can make out the airspeed indicator in HD/full screen you can see I'm trying to get as close as possible each time.
 
DaleB said:
switching from "flare" to "Full flaps, throttle at idle, see how long you can keep it off the ground" - that did wonders.
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Same here. I'm getting my best landings when I get it over the runway, then, with throttle at idle, try to keep it off the ground as long as possible.
 
Yep. I call it my "Try to keep from landing, and fail gracefully" method. :)
 
DaleB said:
Yep. I call it my "Try to keep from landing, and fail gracefully" method. :)
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That's kinda like the inverse of something expounded upon in Hitchhiker's Guide...

"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. … Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties."
 
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