Landing A 182 In My Back Yard?

A

AMFlying

Pre-Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2019
Messages
35
Display Name
Display name:
AMFlying
So Covid has wrecked my PPL timeline but, while I'm patiently waiting for my medical to get sorted out, I decided I would fine tune my long/midterm goals and see if you all think they are possible/logical or where the holes are in my plan.

I'm at about 20 hours now into my PPL and waiting on medical to get sorted out. Once I have my medical I would like to do my solo and then buy a Cessna 182 to finish my training in. The goal is to eventually fly the plane from my back yard. I have 40 acres and a relatively nice flat piece of land where I can get a 1,200' long strip right into prevailing winds. The land is way out in the country and not many neighbors. I have all of the dirt moving toys to pretty easily make something that looks like a grass/dirt/gravel strip.

My questions:
Is 1,200' a realistic runway length at 1,000'msl for a 182? No obstacles at one end (huge flat wheat field) and residential power line at the other (20' height maybe?). I know according to the published numbers it is do-able but is it realistic to do consistently (with lots of practice at an airport first of course)? I could probably stretch it to 1,500' with a little extra work.

I have read a lot here about putting in your own private airstrip (or maybe I should just call it 'repeatedly landing in your own field and parking your airplane there') and the legalities of doing it. It really sounds like out in the country there is not much stopping you. I have 4 neighbors that are on a street that starts about 3,000' from the 'runway' and runs perpendicular to the property. No one lives at the ends of the runway. The next closest neighbors are miles away. My neighbors all have noisy hobbies. One has dirtbikes, one has a drag car of some kind, the closest neighbor does some kind of target practice at the crack of dawn on the weekends with what sounds like a .50BMG :/ So I'm not really too worried about the noise and I wont be flying at the crack of dawn either. Does anyone have any personal experience they would care to share?

I really appreciate any input. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
AMFlying said:
So Covid has wrecked my PPL timeline but, while I'm patiently waiting for my medical to get sorted out, I decided I would fine tune my long/midterm goals and see if you all think they are possible/logical or where the holes are in my plan.

I'm at about 20 hours now into my PPL and waiting on medical to get sorted out. Once I have my medical I would like to do my solo and then buy a C182 to finish my training in. The goal is to eventually fly the plane from my back yard. I have 40 acres and a relatively nice flat piece of land where I can get a 1,200' long strip right into prevailing winds. The land is way out in the country and not many neighbors. I have all of the dirt moving toys to pretty easily make something that looks like a grass/dirt/gravel strip.

My questions:
Is 1,200' a realistic runway length at 1,000'msl for a 182? No obstacles at one end (huge flat wheat field) and residential power line at the other (20' height maybe?). I know according to the published numbers it is do-able but is it realistic to do consistently (with lots of practice at an airport first of course)? I could probably stretch it to 1,500' with a little extra work.

I have read a lot here about putting in your own private airstrip (or maybe I should just call it 'repeatedly landing in your own field and parking your airplane there') and the legalities of doing it. It really sounds like out in the country there is not much stopping you. I have 4 neighbors that are on a street that starts about 3,000' from the 'runway' and runs perpendicular to the property. No one lives at the ends of the runway. The next closest neighbors are miles away. My neighbors all have noisy hobbies. One has dirtbikes, one has a drag car of some kind, the closest neighbor does some kind of target practice at the crack of dawn on the weekends with what sounds like a .50BMG :/ So I'm not really too worried about the noise and I wont be flying at the crack of dawn either. Does anyone have any personal experience they would care to share?

I really appreciate any input. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Unless you had a Katmai or Kenai 182, anything less than 1,800 feet would be beyond my comfort zone. Maybe light, cold, with a STOL kit, but definitely not stock, not at max gross.
 
As far as the FAA is concerned, you only need to file the intent to construct ninety days before you open the airport. You don't need their approval (though they will make a determination if they think it's a good idea or not. The worst they can do is mark it OBJECTIONABLE on the charts.

Airport problems almost always are local land use issues. I'm sitting here looking out at 3000' of grass runway here (though I share it with about 40 others).
 
A 1200 foot strip at 1000 MSL seems pretty marginal to me at reasonable temperatures and loadings, particularly for a brand new pilot. It would be out of my comfort zone.




c5135828fe8a2c1231aa027a07981eda.png

62b52b3a5d9807ce83ef0cf2f0c664d3.png

476555b8e82cc074e328c48c93e5e5b4.png
 
Yep, the book numbers are 1000 takeoff roll at gross and 30 degrees (presuming the runway is flat and the grass is smooth). The Navion has about the same performance numbers and I won't go into without at least 2500.
 
Watch what the Backcountry182 guy does and it shows that the airplane 182 can do that size strip no problem. But it is up to the pilot to make it safe.

With no obstacles on one side (wheat), you could consider it a one-way airstrip and then it is quite safe. You only need to be 3’ AGL over the wheat. And landing towards the power lines would only be dangerous for a go around.

So it is up to you to actually hold yourself to a set of safe standards such as only flying up to a certain weight, density altitude, winds, etc.
 
Thank you for the quick replies! My plan is still very much a work in progress :) Yes, landing on the 1,200/1,500 strip would certainly be on the very long term side of my goals and not as a new pilot. Definitely could not do it very heavily loaded. I picture more like just leave light and go for a quick tour around the local area or leave and head to an airport to fuel up for a longer trip. STOL kit would certainly be an option. Thanks again!
 
skier said:
How about a Maule instead?
Click to expand...

I love the Maules! I marked those off the list for some reason but I can't remember why. I will have to look at them again.

That Backcountry182 guy is one of the guys that started this whole mess!!!
Holy Cow! Those places he visits- 100% why I'm still taking lessons. He makes it look WAY too easy though. I'm sure the skill involved in doing that type of flying (at least more than once) is just off the charts.
 
Based on the data @jimhorner posted, I’d say the no-obstacle direction might be doable once you’re comfortable in the airplane (assuming no slope, mid weights, and you don’t let the grass get too long). Make sure you’re paying attention to whether or not you’re making power, and getting normal acceleration. Learn to apply the 50/70 rule properly. And make sure you know how YOUR takeoff performance compares to the book values.
 
I wouldn’t be comfortable. If it weren’t for the power line, it might be okay on the right day, but I wouldn’t operate out of there on a regular basis.

I have 1700 feet with a power line on one end and a pasture fence on the other, and for me I would still be pretty picky about the weather conditions for it.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
Watch what the Backcountry182 guy does and it shows that the airplane 182 can do that size strip no problem. But it is up to the pilot to make it safe.

With no obstacles on one side (wheat), you could consider it a one-way airstrip and then it is quite safe. You only need to be 3’ AGL over the wheat. And landing towards the power lines would only be dangerous for a go around.

So it is up to you to actually hold yourself to a set of safe standards such as only flying up to a certain weight, density altitude, winds, etc.
Click to expand...

He's got a Sportsman STOL kit with vortex generators. The really short stuff he does is on the side of a mountain where one end of the runway is a couple hundred feet higher than the other end.
 
Only have a little time in a182 but too tight for me. It is one thing to go in and out of 12 or 1500 feet once in awhile when the conditions are right but to base your plane out of there seems to me there would be A LOT of days when it wouldn't be safe and you might push it.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Based on the data @jimhorner posted, I’d say the no-obstacle direction might be doable once you’re comfortable in the airplane (assuming no slope, mid weights, and you don’t let the grass get too long). Make sure you’re paying attention to whether or not you’re making power, and getting normal acceleration. Learn to apply the 50/70 rule properly. And make sure you know how YOUR takeoff performance compares to the book values.
Click to expand...

And those charts are for a paved, level, dry runway. I don’t a have a lot of experience with grass runways, but I seem to remember that it can take longer to accelerate for takeoff, and that the braking action is not as good on grass, particularly if wet. Gravel will/might be similar?
 
DFH65 said:
Only have a little time in a182 but too tight for me. It is one thing to go in and out of 12 or 1500 feet once in awhile when the conditions are right but to base your plane out of there seems to me there would be A LOT of days when it wouldn't be safe and you might push it.
Click to expand...

This.

I fly for pleasure out of a pretty big airport. There are plenty of days when I decide not to land at one or more other fields, because I decide the runway is too short, or too narrow, given the winds that day. That's an easy decision for me; I just go somewhere else.

It takes a lot more discipline to do that when it's your home field that you want to get out of, or back into.
 
jimhorner said:
And those charts are for a paved, level, dry runway. I don’t a have a lot of experience with grass runways, but I seem to remember that it can take longer to accelerate for takeoff, and that the braking action is not as good on grass, particularly if wet. Gravel will/might be similar?
Click to expand...

I fly our 172 off grass all the time and if the grass is long and/or wet it sucks you right in and doesn't want to let go. :)
 
AMFlying said:
Thank you for the quick replies! My plan is still very much a work in progress :) Yes, landing on the 1,200/1,500 strip would certainly be on the very long term side of my goals and not as a new pilot. Definitely could not do it very heavily loaded. I picture more like just leave light and go for a quick tour around the local area or leave and head to an airport to fuel up for a longer trip. STOL kit would certainly be an option. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Might be worth re-evaluating the airplane-mission match. For local sightseeing, and quick tours around the area, why not something cub like? And then you could join a local club to rent a 182 or the like for the longer trips. Or if you’ve got the money, buy a 182 also and keep it at the local airport with a long paved runway and keep your short-field, fun sightseeing bird at the home field..

I don’t have the land for my own airstrip, but I do something similar to the above. Our primary mission is travel, so we own a nice, fast Super Viking for that. When I want to go do some just for fun stuff, I can rent an open cockpit bipe, Decathlon, or Lake Amphib.
 
I flew several years with a Stinson 108-1 out of 1400 feet grass runway.

I would try to go for 1500 feet if at all possible with a good approach..no houses or trees.
 
DFH65 said:
I fly our 172 off grass all the time and if the grass is long and/or wet it sucks you right in and doesn't want to let go. :)
Click to expand...

That’s what I seem to remember from flying off of grass with my father a looong time ago. Thanks for confirming that I haven’t lost it yet!
 
It’s very doable with the right 182. The Backcountry 182 guy has almost the exact same 182 that I have but he’s a vastly better pilot than I am! Lol. I can’t say I’ve ever taken off on a 1200’ runway but I’ve definitely taken off on several 1800 - 2000 foot runways and have easily climbed over 50’ obstacles. I know the plane can do it! Not sure I can yet. His plane (and mine) have the sportsman STOL, micro VGs and a 280 hp PPONK engine. The plane really jumps off the runway with 20* of flaps and climbs like crazy. It’s a pretty cool setup and makes a big difference when compared to a stock 182
 
Remember I have extensive off airport and dirt strip experience. Saying that I think what you are wanting to do is doable.

But, you gotta be confident that you are able to put the wheels on the ground at the exact same spot each and every time, no matter what the wind is doing.

I have absolutely no experience on grass. All my non pavement landings have been on dirt or snow and ice. Wet, soft muddy dirt will increase take off distance, as well as standing water puddles.
 
jimhorner said:
And those charts are for a paved, level, dry runway. I don’t a have a lot of experience with grass runways, but I seem to remember that it can take longer to accelerate for takeoff, and that the braking action is not as good on grass, particularly if wet. Gravel will/might be similar?
Click to expand...
There’s a note at the bottom to increase the takeoff ground roll number by 15% and the landing by 45% for dry grass.
 
I have a 182 and that would be too short for my comfort level. Maybe an RV would be a better choice?
 
I guess it really boils down to how much margin you want over your actual takeoff/landing distance (not book numbers).
 
George Mohr said:
I have a 182 and that would be too short for my comfort level. Maybe an RV would be a better choice?
Click to expand...

I have an RV-6. On pavement, no adverse conditions (gusts, crosswinds, etc), I can routinely stop it in 600'. I would not like to try it on 1200' of grass with no go-around option. With good approaches on both ends, it would be doable. On a one way strip, an RV-9 or 9A would be my choice, but it would still require consistency from the pilot.

A better choice (IMO) would be one of the previously mentioned STOL types like a Cub, Maule, etc.
 
Thank you all very much for all of the great feedback!!

I want to fly from my house because I know that if I have to go drive to the airport to fly- I will not fly nearly as much. BUT... if I feel like I'm facing certain death every time I take off or land from my tiny strip- that will probably have the same effect or worse. So... I think re-evaluating the plane is the best option for now. This is exactly why I come here! I know that I know just enough to know that I don't even begin to know. :)

So this all started with the idea of something like a KitFox or Rans S20 or S21 which I think would work MUCH better with 1,200'.... right? Side-by-side seating is a requirement. Tricycle gear is preferred (....I know :)). So I sell the idea to wife and the first thing she says is that she would love to go visit places all 3-400 miles away. So I think OK... a little more speed might be nice for that sort of stuff. So I start to look at what might work with a short strip and Backcountry182 kept coming to mind so that's why I ended up veer off to a 182 instead.

The bad part is that I have been looking for months and the only adds for those types of planes are all want-to-buy.
 
I did a flight review in a C172D into NY91 (1200', sloped grass, obstacles), lightly loaded (2 aboard and partial fuel). It's definitely on the edge of the envelope with small margins. You can't be long landing, especially if required by winds to land downhill, and takeoffs can only be made in the direction with no obstructions and is a good short/soft field exercise. Flying in and out of that kind of strip is not for beginners. I was glad to have an instructor aboard to point out markers for success/abort and provide advice for best technique to get in and out safely. The barn door flaps are a big help for getting in over the trees. The airfield is on my instructor's property. Cute strip on top of a ridge, with two bodacious windmills not far off the western end. He has a Maule that can easier use of that strip.

I wonder how your insurer will consider your risk flying out of a 1200' field?
 
Bury the line and try and get 1500 feet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JEB
Sounds like a wonderful idea............IF.........you were a very experienced bush pilot,,However you are not! So I go with most of the other posts here. We don't need another statistic
I do think you can do it safely with the right plane, and some discretion as to when you go. But a brand new pilot in a C-182 can be a handful all by itself. You could find a C-150 with a 150 hp and climb prop, maybe a stall kit. I put some hours on one many years ago, and it was a blast to fly. After you have done what you want to do for a while, you could have better understanding of what you need to do.
 
The Rans s21 might be your answer. Fast enough to go places with stol performance. Of course you'd have to build it, but you could build a nice one for 182 money. I've been daydreaming about building one some day and landing it in the field behind my house

1000 feet is real, real short for a normal spam can. I've done a couple 2000' grass strips in the archer, and I wouldn't try anything shorter. Takes 1200-1400' to get off, which doesn't leave much room for error. Looks like a 182 could do it in a bit less, but I wouldn't try it. Remember those charts are for pavement, and you have to add 45% for dry grass. Then it would be prudent to add 50% safety margin.

Screenshot_20201215-172711_Chrome.jpg
Tailor made for the mission you describe.
 
Since you are training this might be of interest. When I was learning to fly, especially up to solo I rarely looked at those 1000ft markers going by during takeoffs. I was learning in a 182, the shortest strip was over 4000ft and my instructor was easily under the FAA 180lbs. Low elevation (1000msl) and summer DA's on rare occasion reach 3000ft. Runway length just never mattered. Even took intersection departures on the 4000ft runway from time to time to not have to wait as long to leave.

Much later when getting ready for some higher DA flying I started looking into judging aborts. Well those 1000ft markers on the longer runways had their first use for this GA, non instrument rated pilot.

Specific to the 182. Unless its heavily loaded or DA's up over 2500ft I am always off right around the first 1000 ft marker. Matter of fact if if I'm even close to the midpoint of the 2nd one I will abort. Something would have to be wrong.

Now to your case. When you are training, if you have the time watch where you take off at vs the 1st 1000ft marker. See how often you are off before reaching it? And then imagine stuff like power lines or trees just 200ft beyond that marker :eek: And every takeoff and landing will be a speciality landing (but you will be good at them!). At least short field and in your case soft field too. Often you train for just short field or just soft field but not usually both. And that training is on pavement.

If you rental company and instructor will allow it, try some grass strip landings. I haven't done many. On grass with 20flaps the nose wants to come off very fast and the mains aren't much later but you're gonna need to nose it way back down into ground effect. This will also help you figure it out.

As a stock 182 owner I wouldn't do it. With a STOL kit and more HP (250, 260, 300) I would think only soft grass would be a major problem.

My CFI threw me a great "curve ball" during training. He has me setup for a short field landing (40deg of flaps on the 182). Right as I touch down he says something like "Its muddy abort the landing". Instinct was to add power, carb heat off....but I forgot I was dragging 40degrees of flaps. Ironically the 182 will just barely climb (not heavily loaded) with full flaps but I had forgotten to transition back to flaps 20 to start getting some lift and get out of there. There was a lot going in those few seconds and 1000ft easily passed by.
 
How does your proposed runway align with prevailing winds? Prone to gusty conditions where you may have to approach at a higher speed? The field is a bit short for me, I’d be more worried about taking off than landing.... but probably short for both. It might be a nice excuse to invest in a 182 with a 550 and AoA / STOL kit.

AMFlying said:
The next closest neighbors are miles away. My neighbors all have noisy hobbies. One has dirtbikes, one has a drag car of some kind, the closest neighbor does some kind of target practice at the crack of dawn on the weekends with what sounds like a .50BMG :/
Click to expand...
When I was based at Lackland AFB we used to go for arms training at Medina annex near Kelly field. For some reason the rifle range faced the airfield. Each time a flight would come in, tower (or someone?) would call the range and ask for a cease fire.

nothing else to add, just don’t get shot down. ;)
 
Sinistar said:
And every takeoff and landing will be a speciality landing (but you will be good at them!). At least short field and in your case soft field too.
Click to expand...
More than likely he’s going to be too short if it’s soft. Part of being a proficient pilot is knowing when NOT to go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top