Lake Tahoe Tomorrow: Advice?

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
I'm thinking of venturing from So Cal (KWHP) to Lake Tahoe tomorrow. Any advice or good threads on VFR approach...going the first time...etc? I have an SR22, so density altitude shouldn't be a problem. Not familiar with terrain, etc. yet...about to study. Advise appreciated!
 
My advice: Stop thinking turbocharging eliminates the effects of density altitude. The wings and propeller will still be operating in thin air.
 
Never flown in there, but 29 black on roulette is a good way to fund some 100LL!
 
I would not try to follow highway 50 but rather 80 and if you are going to land at South Lake Tahoe, the east side of the lake is slightly better to fly over. Try to land south and takeoff north, keeping in mind that a go-around should be done very early if needed. DA could be over 10,000'. Don't rely on the turbo to keep you out of trouble. Don't fly over the middle of the lake... it is extremely cold if you end up swimming in it. I grew up on the north shore of Tahoe and live in Reno.
 
kkoran said:
My advice: Stop thinking turbocharging eliminates the effects of density altitude. The wings and propeller will still be operating in thin air.
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But it is a CIRRUS. Makes it impervious to things such as density altitude and lack of knowledge.
 
Go up 50 at 11500 and start down as soon as you can get solid AWOS. Do it all the time. SERIOUSLY don't top off the tanks. Leave as light as you can early in the morning. Fuel up somewhere else on the way home. Seems like every other year somebody kills himself and his family due to DA out of south shore or Truckee.
Wouldn't recommend the East side as Owen's Valley can be nasty bumpy.
 
Was just talking to my hangar neighbor...went to Tahoe in his 160HP 172...he does t quite frequently no problems. But it's just him no one else in the plane
 
CC268 said:
Was just talking to my hangar neighbor...went to Tahoe in his 160HP 172...he does t quite frequently no problems. But it's just him no one else in the plane
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I have done it in a Cherokee 140 (150 HP) a few times, but only in the winter and the climb rate wasn't that great. You have to do the math.
 
I've done it a few times from KSCK. I don't follow the highways but instead follow V28. Hwy 50 has very few places to land. There's actually quite a few places to put down in an emergency along that airway. I fly light, and in the morning. On departure, I usually have to fly out and do a few 360s to climb before heading back home. And I go as high as I can. I like having at least 2,000 between me and the mountains.
 
CC268 said:
Was just talking to my hangar neighbor...went to Tahoe in his 160HP 172...he does t quite frequently no problems. But it's just him no one else in the plane
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Folks have done it in less than that, it aint the machine that is the factor.
 
I've flown tvl to whp and back many times. I usually stay over the Central Valley/foothills until about Columbia then over Echo Summit. Enjoy the flight, lots of great views
 
From Whitman go direct to the hangtown (HNW) VOR. Once you get about 30 miles south of HNW go to spook intersection. After that follow highway 50 and descend over echo summit (which is only around 7700 feet) You can be low over echo summit because you will be within gliding distance of the airport but best usually to cross it by 2000 feet due to tubulence. When you get into mountainous terrain and are heading east make sure you are 11500 or higher this should provide gliding range to both KTVL and Placerville. You most likely will be landing to the south. It's left traffic and feel free to extend downwind until the shoreline or further to get down. The runway is very long and there is almost always an area of "sink" on short final. I almost never use full flaps because of this. It's perfectly fine to land long. If you have to go around you will most likely not be able to make left traffic due to terrain and will have to follow a little stream to the golf course and circle a few times to gain altitude even in a turbo cirrus! Do as others say and try not to be too heavy. On the way back take just enough fuel to make it back plus reserves of course. Cheapest gas is usually in Carson City. I have made this flight over 100 times in winter and summer. Have fun! Take pictures!
 
CHECK THE WEATHER. I've been doing too many searches lately around there for people who don't understand what mountain passes do to winds.
 
Excellent local knowledge from pilotrick on the golf course. If the wind is coming from the mountains it is going to roll down off the hill at the end and causes downdraft that will defeat anemic climb rates. Just ignore the pattern and head to the golf course for room and flat terrain.
Flew a club 172 out of there for a couple years. Early morning, 4 people and very minimal fuel barely had 100 fpm climb.
 
MAKG1 said:
CHECK THE WEATHER. I've been doing too many searches lately around there for people who don't understand what mountain passes do to winds.
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Have you flown the Banning pass? And the Julian vortac area east of Oceanside? Any tips?

Thanks
 
CC268 said:
Have you flown the Banning pass? And the Julian vortac area east of Oceanside? Any tips?

Thanks
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Both are notorious, though I haven't flown either. I've done Grapevine in 45 knot winds, though.

You have to know what the wind is doing and how it will change as the terrain gets higher. Local airport WX is NOT enough. I hit well over 50 knots on a search not long ago, barely 10 miles from Truckee, while Truckee reported calm winds.

Usually, altitude is your friend.
 
MAKG1 said:
Both are notorious, though I haven't flown either. I've done Grapevine in 45 knot winds, though.

You have to know what the wind is doing and how it will change as the terrain gets higher. Local airport WX is NOT enough. I hit well over 50 knots on a search not long ago, barely 10 miles from Truckee, while Truckee reported calm winds.

Usually, altitude is your friend.
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What are all the resources you use to tell what the winds are at altitude while flying? Ground speed seems like the easiest.

Check winds aloft on the ground too but that may or not be accurate at the location..
 
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Personally I'd only make the trip if I had 1000HP+
 
CC268 said:
What are all the resources you use to tell what the winds are at altitude while flying? Ground speed seems like the easiest.

Check winds aloft on the ground too but that may or not be accurate at the location..
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Crab angle is much easier visually. And you can feel where the air is rising and falling over lower terrain and get a good idea. Of course, watch clouds.

Winds aloft is a FORECAST. It is not actual conditions.

PIREPs can tell a lot, though you don't get much around Lake Tahoe.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
I'm thinking of venturing from So Cal (KWHP) to Lake Tahoe tomorrow. Any advice or good threads on VFR approach...going the first time...etc? I have an SR22, so density altitude shouldn't be a problem. Not familiar with terrain, etc. yet...about to study. Advise appreciated!
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Didja go? How was it?
 
MAKG1 said:
Crab angle is much easier visually. And you can feel where the air is rising and falling over lower terrain and get a good idea. Of course, watch clouds.

Winds aloft is a FORECAST. It is not actual conditions.

PIREPs can tell a lot, though you don't get much around Lake Tahoe.
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Cool thanks for the feedback!
 
CC268 said:
Cool thanks for the feedback!
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No problem. It's actually a lot of fun to decipher it.

The other part is, hand fly. Autopilots tend to turn rising or sinking air into airspeed excursions. It's a lot more work to manage that than to just fly the plane. The effect is not small, and if you are at high DA, you need your airspeed well controlled.
 
MAKG1 said:
No problem. It's actually a lot of fun to decipher it.

The other part is, hand fly. Autopilots tend to turn rising or sinking air into airspeed excursions. It's a lot more work to manage that than to just fly the plane. The effect is not small, and if you are at high DA, you need your airspeed well controlled.
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I don't have an autopilot anyways :happydance:
 
I've done it countless times. I normally go over the 50 pass as it is a straighter shot for me. Or you can go over the 80, or just fly over the mountains.

Getting in isn't particularly tricky, but getting out can be. Plan on circling to gain altitude before you become boxed in. A turbo helps but it isn't the end-all either; I could aim straight for the pass and clear in no problem in a normally aspirated Debonair, but I had to circle in my Turbo Arrow.
 
Remember the danger with winds flowing across mountains is they "tend" to follow the topography. So a downdraft at high wind speeds can outpace your climb rate. This is crucial if you fly over the mountains with only a thousand feet or so clearance. If you do 50 at 11,500 you can have several thousand under you in the canyon. But it's terribly uncomfortable. If its blowing in Placerville and South Shore, wait a day.
I fly IFR (roads...) in mountains. 80 is a series of runways with turns in between. 50 isn't any good in an emergency except to be closer to the ambulance. But at 11500 you have very little, what I call pucker, time between being able to glide into south shore or back to Placerville.
Have fun!
 
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Remember you never know when a seemingly perfectly good plane will fail on you. The guy that ran our club 172 in Tahoe was a corporate pilot for a local business. They had a high powered single and some big twin. He was coming back from the south one night over the mountains, not following roads, and the crank broke. Found them in the spring. Those power out drills aren't a joke. Flying with no options isn't either....
 
Gotta admit all these scary stories of wind in California...think I will just avoid flying anywhere with mountains from now on. Maybe a nice trip to Kansas or Texas is better
 
CC268 said:
Gotta admit all these scary stories of wind in California...think I will just avoid flying anywhere with mountains from now on. Maybe a nice trip to Kansas or Texas is better
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Flying in an aluminum tube yesterday afternoon over KS/OK/MO, there were some gnarly winds to avoid. Most of them had anvils on top.

Mountains are manageable, but there is additional risk and you do have to know what the winds are doing.

Last time I was at TVL, there was a 152 parked on the ramp. People fly GLIDERS around there, at Minden and Truckee.
 
MAKG1 said:
Flying in an aluminum tube yesterday afternoon over KS/OK/MO, there were some gnarly winds to avoid. Most of them had anvils on top.

Mountains are manageable, but there is additional risk and you do have to know what the winds are doing.

Last time I was at TVL, there was a 152 parked on the ramp. People fly GLIDERS around there, at Minden and Truckee.
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Would love to do this mountain flying course some day:

https://adventure.learnthefinerpoints.com/mountains-trip

Problem is as a relatively lower time pilot it becomes very easy to sit on the ground instead of getting up and building experience. At some point you gotta get out there and fly.
 
CC268 said:
Would love to do this mountain flying course some day:

https://adventure.learnthefinerpoints.com/mountains-trip

Problem is as a relatively lower time pilot it becomes very easy to sit on the ground instead of getting up and building experience. At some point you gotta get out there and fly.
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Those guys are top notch, but real expensive. Honestly, you would do as well to show up in Truckee or Reno and rent a local 172 and instructor.
 
MAKG1 said:
Those guys are top notch, but real expensive. Honestly, you would do as well to show up in Truckee or Reno and rent a local 172 and instructor.
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Yea it is pricey...there is actually a super good mountain flying course at a dirt strip just down the road from me here in AZ...cheaper too...I keep forgetting about it but I ought to check it out.
 
It is going to be 108°F in Sacramento today and here in Grass Valley (at 3000MSL about 50 nmi NW of South Tahoe) it is supposed to hit 100. It ain't gonna be much cooler at Tahoe, so turbulence and density altitude are NOT going to be your friend in the afternoon for the next few days.

Jim
 
If you go to truckee... listen to the ATIS as there is a temporary control tower. ATC may not inform you.

Took off out of there yesterday in the SR22T... that ground roll was something else! Love that place though. Been there a few times on various mountain flying trips.
 
That BO today!
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MetalCloud said:
If you go to truckee... listen to the ATIS as there is a temporary control tower. ATC may not inform you.

Took off out of there yesterday in the SR22T... that ground roll was something else! Love that place though. Been there a few times on various mountain flying trips.
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So it does. It's seasonal, June-Sept. I wouldnt have thought TRK to be busy enough to get a Tower
 
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