Lake Michigan - Would you cross it in a single?

Would you cross Lake Michigan in a single?

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mandm

mandm

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Would you cross Lake Michigan in a single? (Outside of gliding distance)

With or without a life raft?

Any other required supplies?
 
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I’ve done it, IFR no less, in a piston single. Also crossed Lake Erie. No life raft. Would do it again if I had reason to.
 
sure, why not. oh yeah, "water".
 
I assume outside of glide distance? Or just in general?

My usual route to cross is 3D2 - KCVX at or above 10.5 & cruise speed. I don’t take a raft, as I’m relying on speed and glide distance to get me to dry land.
 
I have, both VFR and IFR, and I will again. Summer/early fall preferred, always with altitude (10k+). They did away with flight watch many years ago, so now I also always fly IFR just so I’m talking to somebody.
 
kaiser said:
I assume outside of glide distance? Or just in general?

My usual route to cross is 3D2 - KCVX at or above 10.5 & cruise speed. I don’t take a raft, as I’m relying on speed and glide distance to get me to dry land.
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Straight East to Michigan. Outside of glide distance.
 
mandm said:
Straight East to Michigan. Outside of glide distance.
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I suppose for me the risk outweighs the benefit. Maybe with a raft in high summer. But that lake is cold and relatively desolate. With a north or northeast wind, fetch on the lake will whip up 6-12ft waves that you wouldn’t want to ditch in. Being based at KDPA/06C (or anywhere south of KRAC) the added distance to skirt the bottom edge of the lake is negligible.

I scrubbed a trip to the east coast last October because a warm front brought storms to the bottom of the lake and low clouds/icing north of Milwaukee. The only path was east over the lake (with pax) and ORD bravo keeps you low for a long time.
 
kaiser said:
I suppose for me the risk outweighs the benefit. Maybe with a raft in high summer. But that lake is cold and relatively desolate. With a north or northeast wind, fetch on the lake will whip up 6-12ft waves that you wouldn’t want to ditch in. Being based at KDPA/06C (or anywhere south of KRAC) the added distance to skirt the bottom edge of the lake is negligible.

I scrubbed a trip to the east coast last October because a warm front brought storms to the bottom of the lake and low clouds/icing north of Milwaukee. The only path was east over the lake (with pax) and ORD bravo keeps you low for a long time.
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It still somewhat shocks me every time I’m over Lake Michigan and realize you can’t see land in any direction, even on the severe clear type days.
 
That body of water's too cold for my taste. I'm otherwise not averse to water crossings in a single. Did it last year, incidentally over the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean (not that depth beyond standing height matters, just a fun factoid).

I suppose with a poopy suit no problem; but that's work, not recreation.
 
Ten years of flying SE Wisconsin and haven’t done it yet. It’s not no, but plenty of altitude that being out of glide range of land would be zero.
 
IFR (or at least with instrument skills) is a whole different animal than straight up VFR in the summer when there is the probability of haze over the lake.
 
I won’t even cut across the gulf more than glide range for more than a minute or two. I don’t even like flying to the keys, but that I’ll do. I still plan the trip to stay as close to land as possible.

And that’s warm water with boats everywhere.

ATC put me 15 miles out when I flew into Hollywood FL and I did not enjoy it.
 
I’ve done it several times in a single engine piston airplane. Those times have either been in a float plane or in a pressurized airplane and enough altitude where I felt comfortable. All my other crossings have been in multiengine airplanes.

I would not be real excited about doing a crossing in a typical single engine piston airplane at the typical altitudes you cruise at in them but I might consider doing it if it would add a lot of time to go around.
 
I’ve done it, mostly solo. I fly high, with at least flight following. There are about 25 miles in the middle where I can’t glide to the beach.

My plan was 1 mile in front of the mid lake ore carrier.
25F4DD33-6E9B-4EEB-B846-D435E044B34F.jpeg
 
sourdough44 said:
I’ve done it, mostly solo. I fly high, with at least flight following. There are about 25 miles in the middle where I can’t glide to the beach.

My plan was 1 mile in front of the mid lake ore carrier.
View attachment 105381
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Those things often hum at 25 kts… you could totally land on the deck of one of those things.
 
Nope. Too far, too cold, and that lake gets rough enough to sink ships. I sure don't want to ditch in those kinds of swells, nor try to survive on a raft. Not worth the risk compared to skirting around the shore.
 
Several years ago, I did FL to Green Bay for a business conference. Went up on the Michigan side, then direct west to just south of Green Bay. It's the highest I have ever gotten my Lance. 12000 and 13000. It took a LONG time to get it up there. On the return flight, I went a little West just to get to altitude before going over the water. We did carry life vests and it was late summer so the water was maybe the warmest it gets. (Which is still not that warm.)
Being based in Florida, there are many times where up the east coast will be over water, or going west will take me over the gulf. I am less likely to be outside of glide distance in the winter than I am in the summer. If I am going to have to swim, I don't want to do it in cold water.
 
FormerHangie said:
You could ask the same question about flying over mountainous terrain.
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I'll take the water thank you. I've flown over the Desolation Wilderness (Sierras generally south of TVL to BIH) and at 13K I barely cleared those vertical granite pinnacles. There is no way a land out there would be survivable. On the other hand crashing in to a solid rock face would get it over with more quickly than hypothermia or drowning would.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'll take the water thank you. I've flown over the Desolation Wilderness (Sierras generally south of TVL to BIH) and at 13K I barely cleared those vertical granite pinnacles. There is no way a land out there would be survivable. On the other hand crashing in to a solid rock face would get it over with more quickly than hypothermia or drowning would.
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Yeah, but they say you get euphoric with both hypothermia and drowning. I’ll take their word for it.
 
Deaths due to hypothermia do happen in Lake Michigan. I searched the NTSB website and found reports of that happening to single-engine pilots. It’s a real risk, and death is the result.

It is one of the situations where a ballistic chute doesn’t help the single-engine pilot. So the solution is a twin, or just a route around the lake.
 
I don't fly farther from shore than I'm capable of swimming, bearing in mind that I'm a good swimmer.
 
I crossed Lake Michigan on one trip flying into Green Bay to attend AirVenture and again on the way back home. We were over 10,000 feet before starting across. We were in a Bonanza A36 instead of my Cherokee. In my Cherokee I would go up the shoreline by Chicago instead of the Michigan side.
 
No. I have grown a vagina over the years. Twenty years ago I would have gone without much concern. The airplane has no idea it’s over a lake ya know. Now… not so much.
 
No thanks to cold ass water. Caribbean or Gulf with a flotation device, fine.
 
mandm said:
Would you cross Lake Michigan in a single? (Outside of gliding distance)

With or without a life raft?

Any other required supplies?
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This is an interesting question. The risk is not really that different than flying over mountains at night, or flying over big cities. The difference seems to be how you might die. If you collide with something on dry land, chance are you will die instantly. A water landing is very survivable, but the cold temperatures can slowly kill you. The latter sounds more painful, so that is probably why we are more reluctant to take that risk compared to flying over cities or mountains.
 
No, and when I make it to North Fox Island (island in the northern part of L. Michigan) I climb up to 11,500 on the way there, and climb over the island on the way home to ensure I'm in glide range the whole way.

69569831_10219187834715023_3527661540209590272_n.jpg
 
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Salty said:
I bet you swim a lot further in water that isn't freezing
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For sure, if it's too cold to swim I'm not going beyond gliding distance to shore.

I went down in the water after an engine failure in a paramotor once. It's not an experience I'd care to repeat.
 
I've crossed the Tennesee River many times. Often crossing 4 times in the same day. And occasionally, when the winds are right I've been on final and crossed the Tennessee. I don't see the big deal. Go for it.
 
NoHeat said:
Now that’s s situation where the ballistic chute does change everything.
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Yes it would. The crash into the house will be at a much slower speed so hopefully many times more survivable.

GeorgeC said:
You just need to fly high enough to avoid small arms fire.
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Which I did just that while flying fire patrol in West Virginia.... and learned to avoid small smoke coming up through trees.....
 
Ted said:
I’ve done it, IFR no less, in a piston single. Also crossed Lake Erie...
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Same here. I trust the equipment I use (or I don't use it). There are commercial ferries with posted schedules from points in Wisconsin and Michigan (Milwaukee-Muskegon and Manitowoc- Ludington) if you fly near those routes (MOA Minnow is in between them anyway) you can mark approximate positions. Crossing Erie it is easier to be in gliding distance of land (its narrower and there are islands in west).
 
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