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Jdm

Jdm

Line Up and Wait
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Feb 18, 2020
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Jdm
Can’t use KCM for person international travel, only business, but they do not clearly define “business.” Obviously if you’re operating the flight it’s business but what if you’re internationally deadheading from the US? Can’t seem to find a clear answer on the KCM site. Guessing the answer is no? Just asking in case I get through one day without being randomized.
 
Jdm said:
Can’t use KCM for person international travel, only business, but they do not clearly define “business.” Obviously if you’re operating the flight it’s business but what if you’re internationally deadheading from the US? Can’t seem to find a clear answer on the KCM site. Guessing the answer is no? Just asking in case I get through one day without being randomized.
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If you're deadheading for company business, it's business travel, not personal.
 
Thanks. I’ve been out of the 121 game for a long time:) It’d be nice if they would explain this in the rules. So is this common? Are all KCM players using the KCM service for international deadheading?
 
I've used it for international dead-heading. However, KCM may be going the way of the dodo bird anyway, so the "problem" could solve itself...
 
I tried to find a way to submit the question via the KCM site without any luck. Interestingly enough, they have FAQ’s:)
 
Not all the TSA players know the rules either…
 
Tools said:
Not all the TSA players know the rules either…
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Tell me about it. I had the TSA refuse to take my TWIC card (which is officially a valid ID and it's even issued by the TSA themselves). But after the trip when I complained by the TSA site, I got a fairly nice letter from the TSA national office saying that they should have taken it but they do have the right to ask for a secondary ID. A few days later my wife gets a call from the DCA TSA station chief letting us know they've "retrained" the officer.
 
Getting “randomed” at TSA now means the inverse and you actually went through without secondary screening. I get screened more than I go through.
 
The government has botched this program to the point that it’s easier and faster to skip KCM all together. Maybe we should all boycott it so that they shut the program down all together.
 
Yeah, if I see an easy employee line with no wait, I’ll just go there.
 
Ok I tried KCM again. International business deadhead. They didn’t know the rules and proceeded to call a supervisor over who had to call another supervisor over who had to call some sort of Mission Control. Then they all grouped up and decided to let me through. Unbelievable! Could have easily gone through the normal passenger line quicker.
 
I don’t know what KCM is neither am I a commercial pilot but I do want to chip in regarding TSA not knowing their sh**. Flew from ATL to PHX. Morning flight from ATL, I give TSA my Canadian drivers license, no problem. Then, same day in the evening in PHX, I give TSA that same drivers license, suddenly it’s “sorry, we don’t accept Canadian drivers license”. I told him that he must be wrong because TSA in ATL had no problem with it. He insisted they’re wrong, he’s right. No problem, I always have my passport on me anyways, so I gave him that and he let me go. As I was standing in line to get x-ray’d, I see another TSA officer was taking to the officer I saw. Then the officer came to me while I was waiting apologizing, saying that Canadian drivers licenses are an acceptable form of ID. He just didn’t know but got “re-trained” on that as his supervisor accidentally overheard our conversation. At least he admitted to having been wrong.
 
Jdm said:
Ok I tried KCM again. International business deadhead. They didn’t know the rules and proceeded to call a supervisor...
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What are you telling them that generates this confusion? The questions they ask are yes/no questions. Give yes/no answers.

If you are traveling at the direction of your certificate holder then you are not on personal travel.
 
Larry in TN said:
What are you telling them that generates this confusion? The questions they ask are yes/no questions. Give yes/no answers.
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I told them that I’m traveling on international business. That’s exactly what their language says. The TSA employees don’t even know their own poorly written rules.

Larry in TN said:
If you are traveling at the direction of your certificate holder then you are not on personal travel.
Click to expand...

100% clear on this.
 
Jdm said:
I told them that I’m traveling on international business. That’s exactly what their language says. The TSA employees don’t even know their own poorly written rules.
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The rule, listed on the TSA KCM public website is, "May not access the sterile area through the KCM® access point if any portion of their travel itinerary includes personal international travel." It doesn't use "international business" terminology that you stated.

I'd stick to using the TSA's terminology. The average TSO doesn't have much, if any, aviation experience outside of the TSA so the possibility of miscommunication is greater when deviating from TSA terminology. "International business" might be misinterpreted as "business class" instead of "business travel".

"I am not engaging in personal travel", or similar, would likely increase the chance of clear communication. Still, I've never been asked an open-ended question that required anything other than a yes or no answer.

Are you flying for an ACMI?
 
Remember, these people providing "security" are good at one thing, stacking tubs...
 
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Larry in TN said:
The rule, listed on the TSA KCM public website is, "May not access the sterile area through the KCM® access point if any portion of their travel itinerary includes personal international travel." It doesn't use "international business" terminology that you stated.
Click to expand...

From the KCM site: Crewmembers can utilize the KCM® access points for both business and personal use except when on personal international travel.

Based on their rules, “International business travel” should be abundantly clear. My first TSA guy didn’t know that any international travel was allowed. The 2nd TSA person was not familiar with anything related to KCM, only passenger screening. The last TSA person said that international was ok but wanted to call someone just to be on the safe side. The business part never appeared to be in question. KCM was a great program 10 years ago. I didn’t fly international then but domestically it was definitely a time saver.
 
From an email I just received from KCM:


"Is it worth the risk to use your KCM® for personal international travel?
When traveling from a U.S. location to an international location for personal reasons, KCM® participants must be screened as passengers through the passenger-screening checkpoint - they are not allowed to use KCM® Access Points.

If traveling internationally for company business, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) permits KCM® participants to use KCM® Access Points. This includes, but is not limited to, the following:

  • Flight operations
  • Training
  • Crew positioning
  • Dead heading
  • Other company business
For more information, visit our KCM Rules page."
 
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