KLGB this weekend

arnoha

arnoha

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arnoha
Flying to Long Beach this weekend on a short notice vacation. Curious which FBO you guys would choose between JFI (seems the best choice), Ross (expensive fuel), and Signature (classically piston unfriendly). Or is there a choice I'm missing?

Did a search for threads, but my search-fu failed me.
 
You may consider KFUL instead. Will probably save you some monies and is only 9 NM E.
 
Ravioli said:
You may consider KFUL instead. Will probably save you some monies and is only 9 NM E.
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Thought about it, but a couple things: KLGB is much more convenient to what I'm up to this weekend. I've never landed there before, but I've landed KFUL a few times, so it's a new airport in my logbook. (Yeah, I go for things like that. :) ) It's one I particularly want, since it's so steeped in aviation history. Also, rental cars are easier and cheaper there.
 
I was there recently, used Airflite now called Ross air. They were OUTSTANDING. Spent a week there and went in and out multiple times. When I left after the 5 days they had all but one ramp fee waived I think it was $20.
When going to LA go to the closest airport to your destination. Traffic there is so bad. Long Beach is very uncomplicated and the controllers make it even easier.
Look at the higher fuel prices as a convenience fee.
Edit: looking at the most recent reviews and prices on foreflight, if I was to go there today I would probably give the JFI place a try. As long as they do car rentals
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I was there recently, used Airflite now called Ross air. They were OUTSTANDING. Spent a week there and went in and out multiple times. When I left after the 5 days they had all but one ramp fee waived I think it was $20.
When going to LA go to the closest airport to your destination. Traffic there is so bad. Long Beach is very uncomplicated and the controllers make it even easier.
Look at the higher fuel prices as a convenience fee.
Edit: looking at the most recent reviews and prices on foreflight, if I was to go there today I would probably give the JFI place a try. As long as they do car rentals
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Actually, I'm trying Turo for the first time for a car rental. Let's see how that goes. They have several cars that are parked at KLGB.
 
Heads Up, It's probably inthe atis or AF/D but Long Beach is one of those class D airports that wants you to contact Clearance Delivery before departure.
 
arnoha said:
Aware. Thank you!
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Depending on your arrival time, plan for the north runway. The south runway is generally used by all the flight schools and can be extremely busy. If it is, they may have the tower frequencies split. I *believe* when they do that, the north runway uses 120.5 while the south runway is 119.4. Last time that happened to me, they didn't have that mentioned on the ATIS so I spent 20 minutes orbiting the port of Los Angeles trying to get in before the south controller gave me the north frequency.
 
ircphoenix said:
Depending on your arrival time, plan for the north runway. The south runway is generally used by all the flight schools and can be extremely busy. If it is, they may have the tower frequencies split. I *believe* when they do that, the north runway uses 120.5 while the south runway is 119.4. Last time that happened to me, they didn't have that mentioned on the ATIS so I spent 20 minutes orbiting the port of Los Angeles trying to get in before the south controller gave me the north frequency.
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And it wasn't on the ATIS? Happens around here, too, with split freqs. KOAK is always split. I've experienced KRHV and KLVK split, too. It's always been on ATIS, except KOAK, where it's in AF/D. Thanks for the info.

Sounds like you have experience at KLGB. Any opinions on the FBOs?

EDIT: looked it up, appears you got the freqs and sides right.
 
arnoha said:
And it wasn't on the ATIS? Happens around here, too, with split freqs. KOAK is always split. I've experienced KRHV and KLVK split, too. It's always been on ATIS, except KOAK, where it's in AF/D. Thanks for the info.

Sounds like you have experience at KLGB. Any opinions on the FBOs?
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Unfortunately I've never had use of the FBOs on the field. I've practiced touch and goes and had to get my DG replaced on the field there. My airplane lives right across the way at KTOA, so I'm frequently inconvenienced by KLGB. =D

Also, when you're departing, they'll have you taxi for an intersection departure if you're departing to the west. So ... be prepared for that. =D
 
arnoha said:
And it wasn't on the ATIS? Happens around here, too, with split freqs. KOAK is always split. I've experienced KRHV and KLVK split, too. It's always been on ATIS, except KOAK, where it's in AF/D. Thanks for the info.

Sounds like you have experience at KLGB. Any opinions on the FBOs?

EDIT: looked it up, appears you got the freqs and sides right.
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The frequencies are on the airport diagram
 
I went there a few weeks ago. JFI really did have the cheapest fuel in the area, by a lot. It's a stupid-short walk to the rental car lot (or you can just rent the overpriced ones right outside the door).

The ramp fee is a bit high, but they will waive one day for fuel if you ask.

Watch out for the construction site right across from the ramp. It's not charted and it sure looks like a taxiway that goes to 25L. Except it doesn't. I watched a TBM taxi in there and get a "possible pilot deviation," after blowing dust everywhere. Run up on the piston ramp. There is no other place to do it, and the taxi to 25L is REAL short.

To avoid a long inbound taxi, land on 30, normally. You will have to request your runway on initial contact (and ATIS says so).

My experience was that neither 30 nor 25L were all that busy.
 
I thought they changed the name to KLGBTQ.

I couldn't resist. But seriously, I don't wanna google it, wtf does the 'q' mean?
 
eman1200 said:
I thought they changed the name to KLGBTQ.

I couldn't resist. But seriously, I don't wanna google it, wtf does the 'q' mean?
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Queer. General catch-all term for differing sexual expression.
 
MAKG1 said:
I went there a few weeks ago. JFI really did have the cheapest fuel in the area, by a lot. It's a stupid-short walk to the rental car lot (or you can just rent the overpriced ones right outside the door).

The ramp fee is a bit high, but they will waive one day for fuel if you ask.

Watch out for the construction site right across from the ramp. It's not charted and it sure looks like a taxiway that goes to 25L. Except it doesn't. I watched a TBM taxi in there and get a "possible pilot deviation," after blowing dust everywhere. Run up on the piston ramp. There is no other place to do it, and the taxi to 25L is REAL short.

To avoid a long inbound taxi, land on 30, normally. You will have to request your runway on initial contact (and ATIS says so).

My experience was that neither 30 nor 25L were all that busy.
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Awesome. Thank you. Good to know on the rental lot...if Turo doesn't pull through, good to know I have an easy backup. Turns out the Turo car's owner is a student pilot, so he was quite familiar with the FBOs on the field.

How high is a bit high?
 
arnoha said:
Flying to Long Beach this weekend on a short notice vacation. Curious which FBO you guys would choose between JFI (seems the best choice), Ross (expensive fuel), and Signature (classically piston unfriendly). Or is there a choice I'm missing?

Did a search for threads, but my search-fu failed me.
Click to expand...

The last several time we went to Long Beach, I used Pacific Jet Center. They always took care of me very well. However, it seems they are permanently closed? Anyone know what happened to them?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It can't be Queer, can it? That used to be a derogatory slang term for the L, B, G, and T's. They couldn't have accepted that.
 
Ravioli said:
It can't be Queer, can it? That used to be a derogatory slang term for the L, B, G, and T's. They couldn't have accepted that.
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that's exactly what I was thinking but didn't want to go off on that tangent.
 
eman1200 said:
that's exactly what I was thinking but didn't want to go off on that tangent.
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Shrug. I don't really care if we tangent...

Evolution of terms...some people in those groups have embraced Queer and prefer it. Some still see it as a slur (one of the reasons Questioning is slotted in at times). Some are in the middle, and see it as a term that's acceptable in-group, but shouldn't be used out-group.

Personal opinion? My engineer brain is wondering why we need the rest of the letters if Queer encompasses it all? Either just be Q or leave it LGBT. But mostly don't care...it's not my label to worry about.
 
just what we need........a word that used to be derogatory that now isn't derogatory that some people are allowed to use and others can't. absolutely nothing completely fkng bizarre about that at all.
 
I've always used Airflite, now Ross and never been disappointed. Was just there in the Beech 18 a couple months ago (first time since Ross has been running it) and was treated well. I actually like LGB much better than FUL. Fullerton is a little cheaper, but you get much better service at LGB.
 
eman1200 said:
just what we need........a word that used to be derogatory that now isn't derogatory that some people are allowed to use and others can't. absolutely nothing completely fkng bizarre about that at all.
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It's been true of the "N" word in the past. (I haven't heard whether that's still the case.)
 
Palmpilot said:
It's been true of the "N" word in the past. (I haven't heard whether that's still the case.)
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ya, when I said "a word" I meant to type "another word". don't get me wrong, I have no need to ever say either one, but I feel like I have the right to arrange 'letters' in any order I daamnn well please.
 
eman1200 said:
just what we need........a word that used to be derogatory that now isn't derogatory that some people are allowed to use and others can't. absolutely nothing completely fkng bizarre about that at all.
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If there were some singular rule-maker for communication, yeah, that'd be bizarre as hell. But there isn't. Different folks think differently about what is desirable and respectful. Society is adapting faster than the language is standardizing. If you ask any one person, you'll likely get something approaching cohesive (maybe?). The more you ask, the less cohesive it gets. The fun of decision by consensus! (Which is, BTW, a legally recognized thing: "community standards", which has variously found its way into several obscenity laws among other things.) Doubt it's a new thing, either. Been like that every decade I've been alive.

I have no idea what's best when a word is used as a slur. Abolish it or own it? It's definitely an issue I haven't faced. That I'm "ethnic" is pretty hidden by my otherwise whitebread features. I actually had to look up whether there were any racial slurs for me. But, of course, there's a website for that: http://www.rsdb.org/race/armenians

EDIT: LOL...I used "whitebread" above completely naively without realizing that its ironic in this context. And, yes, it's on the list on that website for "whites".
 
arnoha said:
Awesome. Thank you. Good to know on the rental lot...if Turo doesn't pull through, good to know I have an easy backup. Turns out the Turo car's owner is a student pilot, so he was quite familiar with the FBOs on the field.

How high is a bit high?
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If I remember right, it was $30/day. Give them a call to be sure. They waived the first day for a fill-up when I asked. I definitely needed the fuel.

I got an Enterprise car on the field. It's quite literally a short block away.
 
Just to round it out, ended up at JFI, they treated me just fine. Fuel was cheap, as promised. Ramp fee was $30. Waived for one day with fuel purchase.
 
ircphoenix said:
Unfortunately I've never had use of the FBOs on the field. I've practiced touch and goes and had to get my DG replaced on the field there. My airplane lives right across the way at KTOA, so I'm frequently inconvenienced by KLGB. =D

Also, when you're departing, they'll have you taxi for an intersection departure if you're departing to the west. So ... be prepared for that. =D
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Last time I went in to LGB they had LAHSO in effect. Be sure to be up on LAHSO procedures
 
ircphoenix said:
How was getting in and out?
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Easy. Landed and took off from 25L. The way in, I had just transited the SFRA. On the way out, I landed KTOA. Taxi instructions were involved, with two separate runway hold-shorts, but the controllers made it easy on me. LAHSO was in effect, but it wasn't requested. Short approach was requested, but was trivial with the giant runways. Landing instruction was just left traffic for 25L. Instructions out were just straight out.

JFI did great. They didn't hear me come in, so I had to call on UNICOM, but that's no big deal. Otherwise, all was as advertised.

I screwed up the approach and it was entirely my fault. I had requested 30, since it's a quick taxi to JFI. But 30 was being used for IFR approaches, so sequencing would have been challenging, so I chose to switch to 25L. I was given left traffic to 25L, but from where I was, that was awkward as hell, and I should have figured that out before I asked for it. I was aligned for left traffic for 30. Switch to left traffic for 25L required crossing the departure path of 25L, since I needed to avoid overflying the very active 30 approach and departure.
 
I didn't know until recently that the 16/34 runways were closed. I'll always remember the airport as a full tic-tac-toe board, with 12/30 as the winner's mark. :D I had a lot of bump & goes with students on 16L & 16R, and even once in a while on 34L & 34R, but only during strong Santa Ana winds.
 
Pilawt said:
I didn't know until recently that the 16/34 runways were closed. I'll always remember the airport as a full tic-tac-toe board, with 12/30 as the winner's mark. :D I had a lot of bump & goes with students on 16L & 16R, and even once in a while on 34L & 34R, but only during strong Santa Ana winds.
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Now it's just a not-equals sign.
 
Pilawt said:
I didn't know until recently that the 16/34 runways were closed. I'll always remember the airport as a full tic-tac-toe board, with 12/30 as the winner's mark. :D I had a lot of bump & goes with students on 16L & 16R, and even once in a while on 34L & 34R, but only during strong Santa Ana winds.
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I'm not exactly sure when they closed them, but I believe very recently. The closed runways still look like runways, and it definitely was making figuring out exactly how to approach the airport confusing. Concord (KCCR) is similar around here and I always have to prep myself carefully when flying there, which I do very rarely. KCCR is easier, though: no crossing runway, the parallel runways are very different sizes, and the runways aren't at 90 degrees. That makes it visually much easier to orient. KLGB with a box of four nearly identical runways is, I discovered, quite hard to orient on visually.
 
16/34 were closed a few/several years ago. I flew out of LGB for a few years 1998-2004, and I only recall using either for an arrival once or twice, in a strong southerly wind.
 
arnoha said:
I'm not exactly sure when they closed them, but I believe very recently. The closed runways still look like runways, and it definitely was making figuring out exactly how to approach the airport confusing. Concord (KCCR) is similar around here and I always have to prep myself carefully when flying there, which I do very rarely. KCCR is easier, though: no crossing runway, the parallel runways are very different sizes, and the runways aren't at 90 degrees. That makes it visually much easier to orient. KLGB with a box of four nearly identical runways is, I discovered, quite hard to orient on visually.
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Use your DG.

It will also help you identify single-runway airports.

The only problem I had at LGB was figuring out how to do a left downwind entry for 30 from the LA river (it's the wrong side of the airport). I'm not sure Tower understood where I was. In fact, I know they didn't because they told me to maintain at or above 2000, which would have been a Class B bust.
 
MAKG1 said:
Use your DG.

It will also help you identify single-runway airports.

The only problem I had at LGB was figuring out how to do a left downwind entry for 30 from the LA river (it's the wrong side of the airport). I'm not sure Tower understood where I was. In fact, I know they didn't because they told me to maintain at or above 2000, which would have been a Class B bust.
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Yeah, I know the technique. Had a bug on 25 and everything. I found myself still behind the plane very suddenly because the conversation around which runway to be on with the local controller ate up my margin. Still my fault for not anticipating it.

Basically, I had oriented myself to a left 45 entry to 30. That naturally put me head on to 25 departure. I should have realized that would happen. It was a problem even with getting a 30 clearance. Not sure what happens normally, and I should researched that better. I was getting pretty close when I was switched to 25L and it took me 10-20 seconds to figure out what I was going to do. What I did do is turn right to make for a very non-standard left crosswind entry to the 25L pattern. Ugly. Still not really sure how I should have handled it when I was that close already.

EDIT: The standard answer of overfly and teardrop doesn't work because of the very active 30 and usable, but dormant 25R. I'd end up in the 30 pattern either way. The right thing to do, if I really wanted 25L, would have been to swing out much earlier, before I was inside the Delta, so I could have done a standard left 45 entry. If I were thinking ahead, that's what I would have done, but given that I'd already screwed it up...not sure how to have corrected it.
 
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arnoha said:
Yeah, I know the technique. Had a bug on 25 and everything. I found myself still behind the plane very suddenly because the conversation around which runway to be on with the local controller ate up my margin. Still my fault for not anticipating it.

Basically, I had oriented myself to a left 45 entry to 30. That naturally put me head on to 25 departure. I should have realized that would happen. It was a problem even with getting a 30 clearance. Not sure what happens normally, and I should researched that better. I was getting pretty close when I was switched to 25L and it took me 10-20 seconds to figure out what I was going to do. What I did do is turn right to make for a very non-standard left crosswind entry to the 25L pattern. Ugly. Still not really sure how I should have handled it when I was that close already.

EDIT: The standard answer of overfly and teardrop doesn't work because of the very active 30 and usable, but dormant 25R. I'd end up in the 30 pattern either way. The right thing to do, if I really wanted 25L, would have been to swing out much earlier, before I was inside the Delta, so I could have done a standard left 45 entry. If I were thinking ahead, that's what I would have done, but given that I'd already screwed it up...not sure how to have corrected it.
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Did you get a Brasher?
 
ircphoenix said:
Did you get a Brasher?
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Oh, no, nothing like that. I did not violate any FARs that I'm aware of. The controller had only said "make left traffic", and I did...in a somewhat nonstandard way, but legally. Just...cutting the departure path wasn't the safest place to be. The controller didn't even say anything, other than verifying that I was still making left traffic for 25L when I was a bit out of place.

Let me see if I can find the LiveATC records...
 
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