Kitty Hawk. KFFC

Lance F

Lance F

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Lance F
I’ll be in the area of Kitty Hawk (KMRH) and would like to see it. Anyone on here familiar with First Flight airport? Need to know if it would be a problem landing a C414 there. Is there enough parking space, for example.
Any advice is appreciated.
 
Last time I was overhead, I considered landing. I eyeballed it from the air and there were too many aircraft on the ground for my comfort. So I kept going. Landed at W95. I had already refueled at KONX so I had time and choices.

You are the best judge of whether 3000’ is appropriate for you and your aircraft.
 
When you going? I think that's going to be my next long cross-country when I get my plane back
 
I’m in Beaufort, NC from 8/13 to 8/16. Would go up to KFFC in there sometime if i decide to do it.
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
You are the best judge of whether 3000’ is appropriate for you and your aircraft.
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3,000’ is ok. Landing and not being able to park, not so good. What day of the week were you there? Wondering if that would make a difference.
 
We were there in early December and were the only plane on the ramp. I'm sure it's a lot busier in the summer though. The ramp is pretty big and everything was in good condition. Worst case is you just make a low approach if it's full. I recall there being nice long clearings at both ends. Definitely easier to get out of than rough river.

It is a long walk from the airport to the museum. Probably 3/4 mile. There is a nice little building at the airport with bathrooms.
 
Been there 2 times in April via car. One time no airplanes on the ramp the other time one twin and his little dogs were there. I think there is parking/tie downs for 6-9 planes last time I was there which was 6 years ago. Hope to fly in also some day.
 
Having never been out there, is there stuff to do? Can you make a day of it?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Having never been out there, is there stuff to do? Can you make a day of it?
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my suggestion would be you should spend 1/2 day there then take the wifey down to wilmington and have dinner somewhere on the water. then in the evening take the short hop down to myrtle/N myrtle where I'll meet up with ya and we'll party on the beach. head home the next day.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Having never been out there, is there stuff to do? Can you make a day of it?
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Museum and monument maybe half day, tops. There's a lot in the area though. We were actually visiting Williamsburg, VA and made a day trip down to KFFA. About halfway between, there's a good barbecue restaurant on the field at SFQ. There's a LOT of history in the Norfolk/Newport News/Williamsburg area.

Newport News is where they build the aircraft carriers. It's not a restricted area, surprisingly, so you can do touch & goes on them if you turn your transponder off :biggrin:
 
Jim K said:
Museum and monument maybe half day, tops. There's a lot in the area though. We were actually visiting Williamsburg, VA and made a day trip down to KFFA. About halfway between, there's a good barbecue restaurant on the field at SFQ. There's a LOT of history in the Norfolk/Newport News/Williamsburg area.

Newport News is where the build the aircraft carriers. It's not a restricted area, surprisingly, so you can do touch & goes on them if you turn your transponder off :biggrin:
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I learned to fly in Williamsburg. Flew over carriers quite a bit, can't even say how many times I pondered the ability of a Cessna 152 to land and take off. Never considered actually doing it though, always looked to be foul decks while in the yard. :(

It's been forever since I was at FFA or the outer banks anywhere. As I recall the museum was closed both times I was there but we wandered around the monument and outdoor spot. Seems like even half a day there would be a stretch. If the beach is your thing though, or chartering a fishing trip in the area sounds like fun, you could make a weekend out of it I suppose.

One of my favorite flights was one following the beach North from Wilmington, stopping in Morehead City to pick up a friend, then all the way up low over the beach following the outer banks and the lighthouses up to just South of Norfolk someplace where I turned inland for Williamsburg
 
if you are comfortable at 3000', then its fine. There is a row of condos on one side that seems kind of on final. But parking is first come first serve there. You are allowed 24 hours there, so some people do stay overnight. There are no services like fuel so make sure you carry enough to get out.
 
I'm from there, my family runs one of the tour/banner tow operations. I can probably answer about any question you have.

I would think a 414 would get in and out fine. Be aware there is often a lot of mechanical turbulence once you get below the tree line. It surprises a lot of people, not a big deal but it helps to know about it. (same really goes for Hatteras and Ocracoke)

Middle of the week is probably going to be better for a larger twin, weekends get crowded. I would park in a manner to leave myself an out even if the ramp is empty when you get there. I've seen it be empty and two hours later you can hardly move. Summer time it's really hit and miss. Even if you land and there is no parking you should easily be able to turn around and get back out.

Runway 21 is right traffic, and no one is going to answer if you call for a runway advisory. Gonna be up to you to figure it out unless someone else happens to be in the pattern. Prevailing wind in the summer generally will favor 21 unless we have a big cold front come through, then we may get a day or two of light North east wind.

The banner and tour planes generally are South down the beach at about 700' and north around 500'. They don't deviate from that unless they are descending or climbing off the beach. They generally are inside a pier length off the beach and north of Oregon Inlet.

I can't tell you how many close calls I've had over the past 25 years from people cruising the beach at 500' looking everywhere but out in front of them. Nothing gets your blood pumping like watching the shadow of a twin creep up on you and then hearing the roar as they blow over you. There can be a lot of working airplanes out on the beach this time of year.

If you decide to jump over to Manteo (MQI) for fuel, be aware this time of year there is a temporary control tower. (generally it runs Memorial to Labor day 7 days a week)

The beach airports don't have fuel or lights, save for Manteo and Beaufort so keep that in mind. Seems simple but over the years we would get the occasional call to bring some gas cans to FFA for someone that didn't plan well.

The beach frequency between Beaufort and a First Flight is 122.9, that's what everyone will
monitor, if you start listening to that once you hit Core Banks you should be able to get a good idea about where everyone is and what's going on, typically if you're going to Manteo stay on 122.9 until Oregon inlet then switch to 122.8 going up
the sound.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I hear there's usually a pretty good headwind there.
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ha ha, yeah....
I've told this story here before but I'll mention it for this conversation... my shortest landing to date was at FFA. Wind right down the runway, and I got the little 152 slower than I really should have. My ground roll was something like this, maybe a little less
1722869955856.png
 
So appreciate the help. Great comments. One last question. Looks like solid MOAs, restricted and warning areas between KMRH and KFFA. Would flight following from Cherry Point App or filing IFR be a good/necessary idea?
BTW I'll be at Beaufort next week from the 13th to 16th and would go to FFA sometime in this window.
 
Lance F said:
So appreciate the help. Great comments. One last question. Looks like solid MOAs, restricted and warning areas between KMRH and KFFA. Would flight following from Cherry Point App or filing IFR be a good/necessary idea?…..
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Yes.
 
As others have said, parking is hit or miss and you don't know till you try. Approaches are pretty clear but as another poster said there is usually some turbulence as you descend below the trees from the steady coastal winds. There is enough to see and do at the park to keep you busy for an hour or two. Uber's will pick you up at the airport to take you where ever else you want to go. I'd advise taking one versus trying to walk as crossing 158 during the busy summer months is a lot like frogger. You can visit Jokey's ridge state park, take a hang gliding lesson, fly a kite, or get some good food and walk on the beach. You can rent a rod and go fishing on the peer or do the usual beach activities like miniature golf or shopping.
 
Lance F said:
So appreciate the help. Great comments. One last question. Looks like solid MOAs, restricted and warning areas between KMRH and KFFA. Would flight following from Cherry Point App or filing IFR be a good/necessary idea?
BTW I'll be at Beaufort next week from the 13th to 16th and would go to FFA sometime in this window.
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Yep, Cherry Point will send you on through them if they’re cold and let you know if they’re hot. It’s a nice flight along the coast so no real good reason to go direct other than to save some time. I’m down in Frisco much of the summer at Billy Mitchell (HSE) and short of Lee Pilot82 above, I’ve probably spent the most time among the POA regulars flying along the outer banks.

Ocracoke (w95) is also a nice stop with Smacknalley’s being my preference for lunch. Walk from the airport to Howard’s Pub and catch the Electric tram into town. Alternatively, look for Javier’s card in the small terminal build and call him for a ride; he drives for tips. W95 is also a short walk to the beach from the airport; if you want a lifeguard and public showers the NPS is .5 miles up the road.

You mentioned MRH, Morehead City/Beaufort (Bow-furt) NC. Are you stopping there? They have a nice fleet of Jeep Wrangler courtesy cars and some good waterfront lunch spots nearby. I like Front Street Grill right in downtown Beaufort.

I’ve got nothing to add that hasn’t already been said about FFA. It’s cool to checkout the monument. The dining options aren’t as scenic as some of the other spots I’ve mentioned, but you are next door to a Lowe’s if you need to discuss paint chips with your spouse.
 
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ISO has cheap fuel.

We went to Billy Mitchell and stayed in Hatteras for a couple of nights last month and chilled out on the beach a couple of days. Nice little town, decent food. Good option if you want to stay on the OBX longer than First Flight lets you park.
 
Rumor has it that a F15E pilot I know likes to fly up and down the N Carolina coast at few feet and many knots.
 
@Lance F, did you ever make it to FFA?
 
No. Spent our whole- short - time in Beaufort and had a very enjoyable visit.
 
Is the runway long enough for a 414?

Well, it depends. Not long after the airport opened, a KC 130 returning from a refueling mission out over the ocean ran out of fuel, lost all 4 engines.

They declared an emergency, and ATC vectored them toward Elizabeth City. The crew later reported they had too little altitude to reach EC, and would be ditching in the sound, please get helicopters up for a water rescue.

Elizabeth City asked if they could land on 3000 feet, if so they would vector to First Flight. The response was affirmative, they did a perfect use of altitude, landed, with no reverse thrust or other sophisticated advantages. First Flight closed for a few days, the tanker was stripped of un necessary weight, and fueled. A tractor towed them back to the end of the runway, they took off, and flew to Elizabeth City for additional fuel, and returned to base.

Is First Flight long enough for a 414? Depends on the skill of the pilot!

We have visited Kitty Hawk 3 times, to the beach first, to the museum next, and a wedding the last time. Great place to visit.
 
Interesting they wouldn't have gone across the way to KMQI.
 
They may have been north of First Flight when the decision was made, and obviously low on altitude.
 
Things to do-in addition to the museum, getting the kitty hawk kite folks to help one hang glide is really neat. Unless winds are perfect and you’re exceptionally talented, you won’t be very high off the dune.
There’s a shipwreck- the Huron, 200 yds offshore near the nags head fishing pier, about 4 miles from first flight. If you’re an adventurous swimmer/ snorkler, check it out.
Flying over the banks S of kitty hawk is special. Banker ponies on ocracoke,
The tallest lighthouse on the east coast, and cape point at hatteras are near Billy Mitchell “airport”, but sadly they’re not walking distance. Folding bike?
Further south, core banks in cape lookout NS is near to overfly, too.
There’s an abandoned grass strip at the ghost town of Portsmouth
 

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I did catch the Cape Lookout lighthouse. IMG_1764.jpeg
 
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