Kind of a Sad Commentary About our Young People

RJM62

RJM62

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Geek on the Hill
I was talking to a recently-retired Navy guy today. He spent his last few years as a recruiter.

According to this fellow, more than 70 percent of prospective recruits are ineligible for military service at the time that they first apply, with the single biggest reason being obesity. Also in the top ten were inability to pass the ASVAB test, dirty urine screens, childhood ADHD diagnoses, and various bodily mutilations kids do to themselves these days.

He also said that he'd regularly been yelled at by applicants' parents, and sometimes had had complaints filed against him, for "fat shaming" applicants. Apparently that's what they call it now when you inform an applicant that they need to lose some weight to qualify for enlistment. Fat shaming.

The fact that kids are failing the ASVAB is also disappointing to me because it's really not that difficult a test. It's usually taken by Juniors in High School if they have any interest in the military. Apparently it used to be that scoring so low on the ASVAB that you didn't qualify for any military service at all was almost unheard of. But nowadays it's the second most-common reason for rejection. That's a poor commentary on our education system.

Another 10 percent of applicants qualify, but are considered marginal cases. The military will take them if they have to in order to meet their recruitment goals, but they'd rather not if they don't have to.

So in the end, only about 20 percent of initial applicants for military service are fully-qualified at the time of first application. That's pretty sad.

Rich
 
SoonerAviator said:
Now to discuss who educated and brought up this generation of "young people" . . .
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it wasn’t kids saying put me on ADHD meds, but their parents demanding pediatricians to do it without a proper diagnosis. I witnessed a pretty good argument between a husband and wife in my daughter’s doctor’s office waiting room. Pretty sad.
 
Last I checked, ASVAB wasn’t pass/fail. But you may not score high enough to qualify for anything other than a towel folder in the gym.

There are service branch and specialty/career field minimums though.
 
When my son went into the marine reserves about two years ago we got to talking with a non-com at the local station who was helping out.
This was a retired Navy Sargent I assume, I never did ask rank because he was just called sarge, he said the ASVAB has changed over the years. As the military has become more technically advanced, the test has become harder. It has gone less from a pure potential to also include a measure of existing knowledge.

As for fat shaming, depends on how it was done. I have seen one recruiter laugh point blank at an applicant with dreams of special forces (yeah, the kid was beyond obese), to another stating a little more diplomatically that there are physical requirements to get into the military. You need to be able to run X in Y, do Z pushups....

Tim
 
TCABM said:
Last I checked, ASVAB wasn’t pass/fail. But you may not score high enough to qualify for anything other than a towel folder in the gym.

There are service branch and specialty/career field minimums though.
Click to expand...

By "fail," he meant that applicants scored so low that they didn't qualify for enlistment at all. Apparently there is such a score. They just don't call it "failing."

Rich
 
Dave Theisen said:
Pretty sure it wasn’t kids saying put me on ADHD meds, but their parents demanding pediatricians to do it without a proper diagnosis. I witnessed a pretty good argument between a husband and wife in my daughter’s doctor’s office waiting room. Pretty sad.
Click to expand...

Personally, I've never known, nor known of, a kid taking meds for ADHD in which case it didn't start with their school "suggesting" it, or in many cases, even providing a contract shrink to write the script. I also know of at least two occasions when the school threatened the parents with being reported to Social Services for neglect if they didn't comply.

Most parents want their kids to be perfect. I doubt too many want to put them on speed just for ****s and giggles. Most times, I strongly suspect, the school makes the initial suggestion.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
...ADHD in which case it didn't start with their school "suggesting" it...

Most times, I strongly suspect, the school makes the initial suggestion.

Rich
Click to expand...

This is one of my pet peeves. Had any of our schools suggested psychotropic drugging of either child, the ensuing conversation would have been interesting to say the least.

I’ve never heard of a contract psychotropic script-writer at schools before. That should be outright illegal.

What really bothers me is the self-induced/peer pressure on the kids. When our daughter was a junior in HS about seven years ago, she decided she ‘needed’ to be on Ritalin because all her friends were. That was a tough battle and resulted in her friends supporting her by ‘lending’ Ritalin whenever she asked.

Got involved with the school and all the other parents; I pushed for LE involvement as well since nobody felt that sharing prescription psychotropic medication was a big deal. School said they couldn’t control what kids do on or off campus, so they didn’t want to have a part in this.

Went so far as to give legal notice that TROs would be served if the behavior continued. Really ugly, overall.
 
Oh one other item, the three recruiting stations my son dealt with had huge variations in how they treated potential recruits.
The two in New England were very good, the one back in MD in the DC area was full of a**holes. In MD it was in your face you are scum.... In New England, they state here are the physical requirements to get in, and here is the level you must meet to be tested to get in, also we have physical training here four days a week. You must beat the testing numbers before you go for the ASVAB, and then must beat the second set of numbers before the schedule you to get into boot camp and continue to pass the physical tests. If you slack off and fail it, they pull you from the boot camp schedule until you can pass it.

Tim
 
Dave Theisen said:
Pretty sure it wasn’t kids saying put me on ADHD meds, but their parents demanding pediatricians to do it without a proper diagnosis. I witnessed a pretty good argument between a husband and wife in my daughter’s doctor’s office waiting room. Pretty sad.
Click to expand...

As a parent of a child with autism, I think you are grossly over-generalizing here. No parent wants their kids to be on drugs, especially the type they have to take for the rest of their lives. It is the medical professionals that are just too quick to prescribe these drugs so that they can consider the case "solved" and move on to the next case. At least that's been my personal experience. Very few are willing to get to the root of the problem. As the OP noted, there is an alarming trend on the rise, but bad parenting is not the cause of this. Most of the parents I know in this situation are far more dedicated to their family and kids than my parents generation ever was.
 
Velocity173 said:
Army probably has it the worst right now.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/08/01/army-using-drug-waivers-bonuses-to-fill-ranks/
Click to expand...

They also have all their usual internal problems that doesn’t help them retain anyone.

Nephew went in and unlike the recruits they’re getting (apparently) scores high on everything and was sent immediately to various prep for special forces stuff and then the usual grueling testing sessions where they go lose you in the woods, etc.

He manages to do really well but they have to pull him out against his will a couple days before the end because he’s developed walking pneumonia. He doesn’t even care he just wants to plow on through but you know, they’re worried about permanent damage and screaming families that the Army didn’t take care of their boy, etc. He’s in the mission mode in his head and doing the young badass thing and wants to continue.

Anyway they can’t. They get him out, get him treated, he gets a little leave around Christmas which was unexpected and where we caught up on all of this.

Meanwhile they’d sent him back to Benning and want him to re-test but standard military... stand by to stand by. He’s in the old barracks, humid and hot, everything in his locker is covered in mold constantly which he just deals with, and they assign him some useless MOS just to have him hang out until the next testing cycle and send him to some other easier training courses to join the grunts as a “leader” which he handles just fine. Sent him though jump school with the Airborne guys just to find him something to do, really.

But they’ve had him cooling his heels for so long it sounds like he’s reconsidered and is going to finish his commitment and leave. If they had any sense of getting it done, he’d probably have been a lIfer, but hanging around for a year messing around going to small things and just waiting gave him enough time to think about it and pretty sure he’s done with them. Letting gung ho smart Type A personalities sit around for a year is just dumb. Typical Army.

He was headed for the Marines prior to the Army making him a better offer and I told him at the time that I figured it was a mistake to switch for what he wanted to do and be, but when they took him straight into training tracks for special forces stuff after boot, I figured maybe they had their poop in a pile for once. Should have known better. LOL.
 
RJM62 said:
That's a poor commentary on our education system.
Click to expand...

I find a LOT of fault with our education system. But doing a poor job of trying to educate kids isn't one of them. If a kid is not getting at least a decent education in K-12 I 100% blame the kid and/or his parents.

I've seen a lot of good kids growing up around mine, and spend enough time at school functions to see it first hand. Lots of good ones. And more than I'd care to see of kids who are there only for their own amusement. Of course, that was the case when I was in school too. And I see some of them on fb now...almost all of them pretty much where I expected to see them at this stage of their lives.

As for the military, yes, they could use some of our best and brightest. But by and large they need your run of the mill 19 YO, and those go from one end of the spectrum to the other.
 
I'm curious why a diagnosis of childhood ADHD excludes you from the military.
 
Schools and parents/families on medicaid (welfare) do receive more money for special needs children, (anyone diagnosed with add,adhd,addiction etc.) there might be an incentive for some. In my area of the state some 40%+ are on medicaid. I am in the medical profession and have seen a dramatic rise over the years in add, adhd, etc. and meds dispensed.
I know we haven’t genetically changed that much in a generation or two.......
 
Poor military recruiting stats also relates to the general economy. When young folks can get decent paying jobs, or maybe "not-so-great-job-but-parents-haven't-kicked-me-out-yet", the incentive for the more qualified kids to go into the military goes down.

Without getting too political, it could also be a reflection of whether the potential recruits see their odds of getting sent to a war zone in the next few years as higher or lower than in the past, and the reasons for why they might get deployed.
 
RJM62 said:
According to this fellow, more than 70 percent of prospective recruits are ineligible for military service at the time that they first apply
Click to expand...
People who apply for the military =/= the current younger generation. There's a big sampling skew there. That's like looking at only people who apply for jobs at Wal Mart, Google, etc., and making large assumptions about society based on very different and unique groups

SoonerAviator said:
Now to discuss who educated and brought up this generation of "young people" . . .
Click to expand...
thanks! I agree. Millennials make an easy target, and many of my peers disappoint me as far as work ethic, etc., is concerned. But many also don't and do earn well into the six figure range.. so we're not all lazy stoners

Objectively (even though many don't want to admit it) millennials do have it pretty bad. While we don't have World Wars, the immediate threat of a draft, or the threat of nuclear bombardment looming over us we are growing up in a world of:
*incredible student loan debt.. we talk about the cost of planes skyrocketing, how about the cost of education.. corrected for 2017/2018 dollars in 1987 the in-state tuition and fees for public for year schools was $3K.. now in actual 2017/18 dollars it is $10K. That's just public in-state schools. Another chart shows in 1976 average tuition was $1,218 but by 2009 that increased to $12,467. Want to go somewhere good that will help you get a strong six figure job, an Ivy league, etc.? Get ready to pony up $50K/yr or more

*the housing costs are insane. Rents in any legitimate urban environment are through the roof, meaning people can't save for that house. If you do somehow happen to save for a house then thanks to Barnie Frank and unstable market there are ridiculous hoops to jump through, even if you have a strong six figure income, 800 credit, etc.

*retirement, or saving for it, seems like some kind of joke. I didn't come across any private sector jobs when I was looking for work that offered a pension, many don't offer a 401K, and less than half the companies that offer a 401K don't have any match. So saving for retirement is pretty much non existent

*the job market, while improving, will pay a well qualified person maybe $50K/yr to start.. and that's after they've applied at a dozen places and made it through rigorous interview rounds. Will this person be able to "climb the corporate ladder?" - sure, some do, and some do well, but many will have their 2% cost of living increase for the next decade and that will be it

*for the first time in US history today's generation is projected to earn and save less than their parent's generation

*our computers are constantly spying on us in a state of surveillance. Don't want to use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, fine.. but be prepared to be a total social outcast from your peers

*while we're all "connected" through social media we're also very isolated. Want to approach someone at a bar, buy them a drink? be careful, you may be labeled a predator. Enjoy spending your days scrolling aimlessly through Match / Bumble / Tinder / etc.

*taxes are downright oppressive for anyone earning a meaningful income and instead of being used to improve your own state of affairs, get spent elsewhere. Doesn't even matter what side of the aisle your on.. both parties will agree that they're not happy with where their taxes are spent

*typical healthcare costs have increased 8 fold since 1980.. in all reality you basically can't go to the doctor unless you mooch off your parents, pay some exorbitant amount for COBRA, or are lucky enough to have a job that offers benefits. My job has a very healthy insurance program, but many of our friends do not.. the state run panels are not accepted by many practitioners and a simple filling (or root canal) can cost several hundred, if not run into the thousands without coverage. Even with good coverage be prepared to spend a ton of money on your "patient responsibility"

*drug companies prey on us.. everyone is told they have some kind of "issue".. the ADHD comment is a big item there... many parents in the "boomer" generation don't realize that telling Tommy that he's good at everything and a shining star and not giving any structure or discipline may result in someone who is not well behaved.. but why worry.. don't blame yourself as a parent, just go get some drugs. The drug company will be happy to sell you the pills (as will the doctor, who is probably getting a kickback)

*politically the country is very divided. Tell people you don't agree with even some of President Obama's policies or that Hillary didn't run a good campaign and your're labeled a racist deplorable bigoted white male privileged Trump supporter.. where the risk of personal harm is a genuine concern. Tell people you think agree with some social liberal policies and now you're a socialist communist who wants to live in Venezuela. The age of political hyperbole is upon us and means we can't actually communicate. I do blame the media for that for using fear (from both sides of the aisle) to perpetuate whatever story you want and drive click and ad revenue

*many of us grew up being repeatedly told that we could be anything we wanted to in life and that we should just do whatever makes us happy and the money will come if you utilize your talents.. that sounds nice, but it's horrible advice and doesn't give people structure and direction. So off you go to get a major in Ancient Mongolian Literature and then wonder why you are 35 years old and working at in a service industry for $12/hr..

So yeah.. as a whole the millennial generation is depressed. Granted, like I've said, myself and many of my friends do very well.. but it doesn't change that this is not true for many of the "younger" generation



..oh and to top it all of people tell me I'm not a real pilot since I fly a Cirrus (lol okay, that last part was tongue in cheek)
 
tspear said:
When my son went into the marine reserves about two years ago we got to talking with a non-com at the local station who was helping out.
This was a retired Navy Sargent I assume, I never did ask rank because he was just called sarge, he said the ASVAB has changed over the years. As the military has become more technically advanced, the test has become harder. It has gone less from a pure potential to also include a measure of existing knowledge.

As for fat shaming, depends on how it was done. I have seen one recruiter laugh point blank at an applicant with dreams of special forces (yeah, the kid was beyond obese), to another stating a little more diplomatically that there are physical requirements to get into the military. You need to be able to run X in Y, do Z pushups....

Tim
Click to expand...



The Navy doesn't have sergeants.
 
I did the ASVAB in 1978. 75 people took the test, and 35 were dismissed as not meeting minimum score. After that myself and 5 others were called into a separate room. I was thinking man, we did so bad we are going to be executed....

In the room sat a major. He asked me what I wanted to do in the army. I smiled and said I want to be a truck mechanic, sir.....

He looked at me kind of strange, made a few marks on my sheet, threw it into the pile and said, you got it.

Later when I told my dad about that he looked at me and said you could have asked for OCS.... Thanks pop, could you have told me that earlier..??

Recently a friend of mine, his son wanted to join the marines. He did well in testing and physical fitness, but when he was 15 he cut star shaped figure on the back of his hand which left a star shaped scar. He was told he would have to get it covered up with a tattoo if he wanted to be a marine, then was told visible tattoos are a disqualifier as well.
 
If we just banned big gulps all of this would be better.
 
Tantalum said:
People who apply for the military =/= the current younger generation. There's a big sampling skew there. That's like looking at only people who apply for jobs at Wal Mart, Google, etc., and making large assumptions about society based on very different and unique groups


thanks! I agree. Millennials make an easy target, and many of my peers disappoint me as far as work ethic, etc., is concerned. But many also don't and do earn well into the six figure range.. so we're not all lazy stoners

Objectively (even though many don't want to admit it) millennials do have it pretty bad. While we don't have World Wars, the immediate threat of a draft, or the threat of nuclear bombardment looming over us we are growing up in a world of:
*incredible student loan debt.. we talk about the cost of planes skyrocketing, how about the cost of education.. corrected for 2017/2018 dollars in 1987 the in-state tuition and fees for public for year schools was $3K.. now in actual 2017/18 dollars it is $10K. That's just public in-state schools. Another chart shows in 1976 average tuition was $1,218 but by 2009 that increased to $12,467. Want to go somewhere good that will help you get a strong six figure job, an Ivy league, etc.? Get ready to pony up $50K/yr or more

*the housing costs are insane. Rents in any legitimate urban environment are through the roof, meaning people can't save for that house. If you do somehow happen to save for a house then thanks to Barnie Frank and unstable market there are ridiculous hoops to jump through, even if you have a strong six figure income, 800 credit, etc.

*retirement, or saving for it, seems like some kind of joke. I didn't come across any private sector jobs when I was looking for work that offered a pension, many don't offer a 401K, and less than half the companies that offer a 401K don't have any match. So saving for retirement is pretty much non existent

*the job market, while improving, will pay a well qualified person maybe $50K/yr to start.. and that's after they've applied at a dozen places and made it through rigorous interview rounds. Will this person be able to "climb the corporate ladder?" - sure, some do, and some do well, but many will have their 2% cost of living increase for the next decade and that will be it

*for the first time in US history today's generation is projected to earn and save less than their parent's generation

*our computers are constantly spying on us in a state of surveillance. Don't want to use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, fine.. but be prepared to be a total social outcast from your peers

*while we're all "connected" through social media we're also very isolated. Want to approach someone at a bar, buy them a drink? be careful, you may be labeled a predator. Enjoy spending your days scrolling aimlessly through Match / Bumble / Tinder / etc.

*taxes are downright oppressive for anyone earning a meaningful income and instead of being used to improve your own state of affairs, get spent elsewhere. Doesn't even matter what side of the aisle your on.. both parties will agree that they're not happy with where their taxes are spent

*typical healthcare costs have increased 8 fold since 1980.. in all reality you basically can't go to the doctor unless you mooch off your parents, pay some exorbitant amount for COBRA, or are lucky enough to have a job that offers benefits. My job has a very healthy insurance program, but many of our friends do not.. the state run panels are not accepted by many practitioners and a simple filling (or root canal) can cost several hundred, if not run into the thousands without coverage. Even with good coverage be prepared to spend a ton of money on your "patient responsibility"

*drug companies prey on us.. everyone is told they have some kind of "issue".. the ADHD comment is a big item there... many parents in the "boomer" generation don't realize that telling Tommy that he's good at everything and a shining star and not giving any structure or discipline may result in someone who is not well behaved.. but why worry.. don't blame yourself as a parent, just go get some drugs. The drug company will be happy to sell you the pills (as will the doctor, who is probably getting a kickback)

*politically the country is very divided. Tell people you don't agree with even some of President Obama's policies or that Hillary didn't run a good campaign and your're labeled a racist deplorable bigoted white male privileged Trump supporter.. where the risk of personal harm is a genuine concern. Tell people you think agree with some social liberal policies and now you're a socialist communist who wants to live in Venezuela. The age of political hyperbole is upon us and means we can't actually communicate. I do blame the media for that for using fear (from both sides of the aisle) to perpetuate whatever story you want and drive click and ad revenue

*many of us grew up being repeatedly told that we could be anything we wanted to in life and that we should just do whatever makes us happy and the money will come if you utilize your talents.. that sounds nice, but it's horrible advice and doesn't give people structure and direction. So off you go to get a major in Ancient Mongolian Literature and then wonder why you are 35 years old and working at in a service industry for $12/hr..

So yeah.. as a whole the millennial generation is depressed. Granted, like I've said, myself and many of my friends do very well.. but it doesn't change that this is not true for many of the "younger" generation



..oh and to top it all of people tell me I'm not a real pilot since I fly a Cirrus (lol okay, that last part was tongue in cheek)
Click to expand...

^ I can't upvote this enough, lol. I also think there's some confirmation bias at-hand, too. It's always "my generation was tough, these new kids are soft and undisciplined, etc." I see the gamut of people in every generation daily. Some of the WWII generation/baby boomers are successful and wealthy in their old age, some are middle class, most are living on gov't assistance and have no personal savings left. Same goes for their children and Gex X'ers. There's nothing special about Millennials in particular, it's mostly just a slow shift in Western society over time. You will have lazy, good-for-nothing people, high-performing citizens, and everyone else in between.

I'd also venture to say that if a child is failing in school (public/private makes no difference), there's a 99% chance that the parents don't place any importance or show enthusiasm for the child's education, either. There are sometimes other circumstances at play, but home life and parental involvement is a bigger driver of student performance than the actual school.
 
TCABM said:
Last I checked, ASVAB wasn’t pass
Click to expand...
When I was an Air Force Recruiter, you needed a certain combined score to QUALIFY... the food chain was something like: Navy Nuclear Program, then anything technical in either the Navy Marines or Air Force, then Admin in those 3 then Army or marine infantry... Coast Guard was hard to get into because it was a much smaller branch... I remember you had to take a test to qualify to take the entrance exam for the CG... Excuse me if I'm a little off the mark here, this was 35 years ago, after all...
 
Tantalum said:
People who apply for the military =/= the current younger generation. There's a big sampling skew there. That's like looking at only people who apply for jobs at Wal Mart, Google, etc., and making large assumptions about society based on very different and unique groups


thanks! I agree. Millennials make an easy target, and many of my peers disappoint me as far as work ethic, etc., is concerned. But many also don't and do earn well into the six figure range.. so we're not all lazy stoners

Objectively (even though many don't want to admit it) millennials do have it pretty bad. While we don't have World Wars, the immediate threat of a draft, or the threat of nuclear bombardment looming over us we are growing up in a world of:
*incredible student loan debt.. we talk about the cost of planes skyrocketing, how about the cost of education.. corrected for 2017/2018 dollars in 1987 the in-state tuition and fees for public for year schools was $3K.. now in actual 2017/18 dollars it is $10K. That's just public in-state schools. Another chart shows in 1976 average tuition was $1,218 but by 2009 that increased to $12,467. Want to go somewhere good that will help you get a strong six figure job, an Ivy league, etc.? Get ready to pony up $50K/yr or more

*the housing costs are insane. Rents in any legitimate urban environment are through the roof, meaning people can't save for that house. If you do somehow happen to save for a house then thanks to Barnie Frank and unstable market there are ridiculous hoops to jump through, even if you have a strong six figure income, 800 credit, etc.

*retirement, or saving for it, seems like some kind of joke. I didn't come across any private sector jobs when I was looking for work that offered a pension, many don't offer a 401K, and less than half the companies that offer a 401K don't have any match. So saving for retirement is pretty much non existent

*the job market, while improving, will pay a well qualified person maybe $50K/yr to start.. and that's after they've applied at a dozen places and made it through rigorous interview rounds. Will this person be able to "climb the corporate ladder?" - sure, some do, and some do well, but many will have their 2% cost of living increase for the next decade and that will be it

*for the first time in US history today's generation is projected to earn and save less than their parent's generation

*our computers are constantly spying on us in a state of surveillance. Don't want to use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, fine.. but be prepared to be a total social outcast from your peers

*while we're all "connected" through social media we're also very isolated. Want to approach someone at a bar, buy them a drink? be careful, you may be labeled a predator. Enjoy spending your days scrolling aimlessly through Match / Bumble / Tinder / etc.

*taxes are downright oppressive for anyone earning a meaningful income and instead of being used to improve your own state of affairs, get spent elsewhere. Doesn't even matter what side of the aisle your on.. both parties will agree that they're not happy with where their taxes are spent

*typical healthcare costs have increased 8 fold since 1980.. in all reality you basically can't go to the doctor unless you mooch off your parents, pay some exorbitant amount for COBRA, or are lucky enough to have a job that offers benefits. My job has a very healthy insurance program, but many of our friends do not.. the state run panels are not accepted by many practitioners and a simple filling (or root canal) can cost several hundred, if not run into the thousands without coverage. Even with good coverage be prepared to spend a ton of money on your "patient responsibility"

*drug companies prey on us.. everyone is told they have some kind of "issue".. the ADHD comment is a big item there... many parents in the "boomer" generation don't realize that telling Tommy that he's good at everything and a shining star and not giving any structure or discipline may result in someone who is not well behaved.. but why worry.. don't blame yourself as a parent, just go get some drugs. The drug company will be happy to sell you the pills (as will the doctor, who is probably getting a kickback)

*politically the country is very divided. Tell people you don't agree with even some of President Obama's policies or that Hillary didn't run a good campaign and your're labeled a racist deplorable bigoted white male privileged Trump supporter.. where the risk of personal harm is a genuine concern. Tell people you think agree with some social liberal policies and now you're a socialist communist who wants to live in Venezuela. The age of political hyperbole is upon us and means we can't actually communicate. I do blame the media for that for using fear (from both sides of the aisle) to perpetuate whatever story you want and drive click and ad revenue

*many of us grew up being repeatedly told that we could be anything we wanted to in life and that we should just do whatever makes us happy and the money will come if you utilize your talents.. that sounds nice, but it's horrible advice and doesn't give people structure and direction. So off you go to get a major in Ancient Mongolian Literature and then wonder why you are 35 years old and working at in a service industry for $12/hr..

So yeah.. as a whole the millennial generation is depressed. Granted, like I've said, myself and many of my friends do very well.. but it doesn't change that this is not true for many of the "younger" generation



..oh and to top it all of people tell me I'm not a real pilot since I fly a Cirrus (lol okay, that last part was tongue in cheek)
Click to expand...

Brilliant post, you pretty much put it in perspective. In addition, the relative numbers of young people to old people is turning upside down. In my parent's generation, there were tons of young people for every one surviving octogenarian. Today the baby boomers, that big bubble of increased births, are reaching retirement and old age, and living longer than every before. There are fewer young people to support more and more old people, and by support I don't mean directly I mean through social security, taxes, insurance premiums and so on.
 
Go attend a law school, medical school, or engineering school graduation. Those kids focused their academics on a career and had the stamina to see it through. Smart kids are easy to find if you know where to look. Judging by a few kids I know who were recruited, the military knows where to look.
 
Tantalum said:
*retirement, or saving for it, seems like some kind of joke. I didn't come across any private sector jobs when I was looking for work that offered a pension, many don't offer a 401K, and less than half the companies that offer a 401K don't have any match. So saving for retirement is pretty much non existent

*many of us grew up being repeatedly told that we could be anything we wanted to in life and that we should just do whatever makes us happy and the money will come if you utilize your talents.. that sounds nice, but it's horrible advice and doesn't give people structure and direction. So off you go to get a major in Ancient Mongolian Literature and then wonder why you are 35 years old and working at in a service industry for $12/hr..
Click to expand...

These two at least, are quite fixable. I try to tell young folks just how little money it takes today put into a Roth IRA to be decently well off in retirement if they start in their 20s.

Pretty easy to have a couple million bucks by retirement age when started that early.

It gets really really expensive to save for retirement the longer one waits.

As far as the “follow your dreams” crap, life and friends who care can kick that crap out of anyone.

“How about a job that pays the bills like everybody else there, Dream Boy?” LOL. That message is actually easier to get across than the investing message.

And debt. Noooooooo debt other than those stupid overpriced wooden boxes made out of 2x4s. (Housing.)
 
Touching on the ASVAB...I just graduated high school, took the test as a junior. I made a 90, I'm not saying that to brag, its a pretty easy test. 95% of the content is common knowledge IMO. Friends of mine that also took it ranged in scores of 80-95. Passing depends on the branch but somewhere in the area of a 50%(or lower!) is considered passing by most branches of the military. Now I'm not going into the military for a variety of reasons, but myself & friends included have gotten a TON of calls from recruiters due to our ASVAB scores.

I found out a while later there were a few students I know in my testing room that didn't do so well(as in failed completely). Well those students finished the tests in about 30% of the time that I did. (Sidenote, these were students that were enrolled in ROTC and seriously wanted to go into the military.) That's not near enough time to read the questions let alone give a reasonable answer. I don't think those kids took it seriously at all, and just Christmas tree'd the answer sheet.

I bring this up b/c I wonder if the large portion of kids not passing is due to not taking the test seriously. Kids in programs like ROTC may be led to believe by their instructors that the tests are very easy, and therefore don't try on the test.
 
denverpilot said:
Pretty easy to have a couple million bucks by retirement age when started that early.

It gets really really expensive to save for retirement the longer one waits.

As far as the “follow your dreams” crap, life and friends who care can kick that crap out of anyone.
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Totally... and once you set it up never dial it down. Someone gave me some odd feedback once.. it was to max out the gov allowed $18K (or whatever it is).. his thinking was simple "you save a ton for retirement.. and you may get a little back at the end of the year if you over funded.. it's a fun challenge and a nice little extra boost!". Granted.. on a $50K salary that's hard to do.. but if you are lucky enough to move up that's a good little way to "gamify" the system a bit and make a challenge out of it as you move up in life
 
FormerHangie said:
I'm curious why a diagnosis of childhood ADHD excludes you from the military.
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Because military service places one in situations in which even momentary lapses of attention can have very undesirable consequences for one's self, comrades, and country.

Rich
 
Tantalum said:
Totally... and once you set it up never dial it down. Someone gave me some odd feedback once.. it was to max out the gov allowed $18K (or whatever it is).. his thinking was simple "you save a ton for retirement.. and you may get a little back at the end of the year if you over funded.. it's a fun challenge and a nice little extra boost!". Granted.. on a $50K salary that's hard to do.. but if you are lucky enough to move up that's a good little way to "gamify" the system a bit and make a challenge out of it as you move up in life
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One saying I heard some time ago was "Pay yourself first." In other words, put your money away for retirement first thing. The 401k was the first thing I signed up for on my first day of my career, and has been the first thing I've signed up for at every job since.

Nate has good recommendations, too. Keep the debt to an absolute minimum. I hated financing the Ram but it made sense on that purchase. Otherwise, mortgage and that's it.

The concept of "everyone needs to go to college" is absolutely ridiculous and one of the biggest scams in modern history, perhaps the biggest scam. Yes, everyone should have the ability to go to college, but it's not an experience that everyone needs or that everyone benefits from. In my case, the cost was well worth it. For many, it's not even close.
 
Timbeck2 said:
The Navy doesn't have sergeants.
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I knew a Navy corpsman who's last name was Sarge, he was FMF too. "Doc Sarge" always got a few raised eyebrows. Also knew a marine with the nickname "Doc". His last name was Savage (Doc Savage). Go figure!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The concept of "everyone needs to go to college" is absolutely ridiculous and one of the biggest scams in modern history, perhaps the biggest scam. Yes, everyone should have the ability to go to college, but it's not an experience that everyone needs or that everyone benefits from. In my case, the cost was well worth it. For many, it's not even close.
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I generally agree on principle. We're in a situation now though where a college degree is assumed, and without one you dramatically disadvantage yourself unfortunately. I remember at college fairs I would attend there seemed to be an equal number of academic booths as there were financing booths. I thought it was odd that people were racing to give you $100K.. but obviously they're in it to make to money and those returns they get keep them in business. The college doesn't care how expensive it is, because they know the student will get financing for it. Crazy
 
I wonder how the landscape would change if schools just kept 10% of your income for the first 10 years you had a job outside of college. I bet they would have a much bigger incentive to educate you well and set you up with a good career. They would actually, literally, be invested in your future

Anyway, pardon the thread drift!
 
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