Kicking Myself over this - C182P

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I've decided not to pursue this -it's a gut feeling. I just need to convince my other gut that's it's right.

1976 C-182P. 1490 TTAE. One owner (elderly, lost medical). All Original paint (peeling but serviceable), interior plastic panels (falling apart but serviceable), avionics (maybe a gyro or 2 replaced over the years) appear to be in excellent (clean) condition but the panel is nearly as Cessna delivered in 76'
2 Place Intercom :confused:
Cessna Nav200 AP
ADF and DME, #1 Loc w. GS and #2 localizer only
All avionics working

Annual Expired July 2015, it was last flown ~Feb 2015
Owner said there's a bad mag on one cylinder, but I wasn't convinced it was missing, the engine sounded good.

I'm thinking the owner didn't have the money or interest to maintain the airplane aesthetics the way it was in his heart to do so, but from a quick glance at the paperwork the ADs have been maintained.

Am I passing up a steal of a deal or saving myself heartache? I did discuss this with a vintage 182 owner who said that I should pass, even at the really low asking price.
 
P's are still in demand with a typical asking price in the 80's. So the question is, can you bring back to a to that level for less than $50k? And do you have the cash reserves to do that? And the desire to spend that over the next few years?

But if it passes a rigorous pre-buy, it could be a good value for you as it sits during the time you stash more cash. Troy's A&P, John Efinger, would be a really good resource to conduct the inspection and annual.
 
It's really simple. Find your ideal airplane and establish the cost. Can you make this project plane into that for less? Beware, when you estimate your project costs and time? Do your very best estimate, then double the cost and triple the time.

Do you know how to make a $27K airplane into an $80K airplane? Buy the $27K airplane and spend $80K fixing it.
 
1500 hours isn't low engine time either and equates to less than 40 hours per year.

Are you prepared to spend significant dollars on engine repair/overhaul?

It almost always costs more to equip the airplane how you want it, as opposed to buying it that way.
 
Its a flying restoration project. You could easily spend 50k restoring it. Good work is hard to find. You hve to pay for your mechanics mistakes, usually. And hope they don't cause an accident.

If what you want is a restoration project, go ahead.
 
1500 is TBO...add $30K for a new engine then look at that price and determine if it is worth it.

Sounds like not a such hot deal for the condition and avionics.
 
Questions for the OP: How many aircraft have you bought that you didn't have some misgivings about (at least part time)?

Did you want the challenge and fun of a fixer-upper? If not, then passing it up would seem to be the correct choice.
 
I'm mention here what we talked about off line that if the plane has been sitting outside most of its life (as you mentioned), internal corrosion could be a big issue. That can get real expensive, real quick. I suspect the owner knows that there are a lot of things that need to be corrected, and thus the low asking price.
 
As others said it's a project plane. I can think of where to spend $40K right off the top and that's not even getting into the engine yet... If you plan to fly it for 5+ years then spend the money to fix it up and enjoy the flying. You can even work out the project cost, come up with some depreciation and see where you're at in 5 years.
 
Yes, you will kick yourself for passing by, assuming it would pass a new annual / pre-buy.

You don't need to do $40k of improvements. The best expense after you buy it would be to spend lots of money on AvGas.

You ain't gonna get hurt on $27k.

Buy it, or share the location here so somebody else can grab it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Yes, you will kick yourself for passing by, assuming it would pass a new annual / pre-buy.

You don't need to do $40k of improvements. The best expense after you buy it would be to spend lots of money on AvGas.

You ain't gonna get hurt on $27k.

Buy it, or share the location here so somebody else can grab it.
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Agreed. Once you get it annualed, it'll be worth more. Things will be found in the annual that aren't in the pre-buy, especially if the AP doing the annual isn't the one doing the pre-buy. But if the engine checks out, go for it.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Good point.

The owner wants $27k for the airplane.

Now, good deal or not?
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Depends on a lot of factors, of course. Low time airframe, but is it corrosion free? If so, and if you have another 20-30K you want to dump into it to update the avionics and such, and you want a project airplane, sure.

I prefer to buy low time, clean, and equipped pretty close to how I want the plane, THEN upgrade.

This sounds like the kind of plane AOPA might look for to do a sponsored $200K upgrade on, then give you a $70K tax bill. But it doesn't matter, you won't win it unless you already own a plane.
 
It would be interesting to have the responders qualify their answers by how many project restorations they've personally done or at least personally funded!

Me? Two. Learned my lesson. My next one will start as an E-AB kit!
 
JoseCuervo said:
Yes, you will kick yourself for passing by, assuming it would pass a new annual / pre-buy.

You don't need to do $40k of improvements. The best expense after you buy it would be to spend lots of money on AvGas.

You ain't gonna get hurt on $27k.

Buy it, or share the location here so somebody else can grab it.
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And that's exactly what I was thinking too. Now that I've sold my 172SP share, what would I spend renting? The thought of renting is very lackluster now.
 
Where does anybody get the idea the OP wants an $80k 182 to fly around in?

What if the OP wants a $35k 182 to fly around on VFR trips with 2 adults and 2 kids and already owns an iPad and ForeFlight?

The OP could make a lot of great memories with this plane and save the other $40k for hotels, DisneyLand, and log rides.
 
Stewartb said:
It would be interesting to have the responders qualify their answers by how many project restorations they've personally done or at least personally funded!

Me? Two. Learned my lesson. My next one will start as an E-AB kit!
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I had a cherokee 140 for 18 years. 8 years after I bought it I needed to fix two cracked cylinders (chermichrome) and decided to overhaul the engine, convert it to 160hp, and one thing lead to another... I stopped counting when the parts, etc, exceeded $23,000.

I had a lot of fun doing a lot of the work under the supervision of an A&P and an IA. But I did learn to hate the phrase "ya know, while you are at it..."

Doing owner-assisted work on the airplane was one of the joys of ownership.

The OP might not have the same interest.
 
Yep. I had more fun building my last Cub than I did owning it after. I lost money when I sold it and it was worth every penny for the three years of satisfaction from building it.
 
Brad Z said:
I'm mention here what we talked about off line that if the plane has been sitting outside most of its life (as you mentioned), internal corrosion could be a big issue. That can get real expensive, real quick. I suspect the owner knows that there are a lot of things that need to be corrected, and thus the low asking price.
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One of the considerations is that I wouldn't be able to get back to base in low weather with the current equipment. Only viable approach I'm aware of requires GPS.

There's an unobstructed view down the tailcone. I didn't readily see anything amiss, but I did not the eye-bolts attaching the rods to control surfaces seemed to have corrosion on them.
 
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Bob Noel said:
But I did learn to hate the phrase "ya know, while you are at it..."
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Aviation dominoes. Put in one new instrument and the rest look like crap. Add a few more and the panel looks like crap. Change that and the interior looks like crap. Then the paint. Low use-high time engines should always be budgeted for replacement. And then the hp upgrade idea creeps in. May as well add a new prop...... :eek:
 
Stewartb said:
Aviation dominoes. Put in one new instrument and the rest look like crap. Add a few more and the panel looks like crap. Change that and the interior looks like crap. Then the paint. Low use-high time engines should always be budgeted for replacement. And then the hp upgrade idea creeps in. May as well add a new prop...... :eek:
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yep - but in my case I didn't do paint, interior, or main radio stack.
 
Add up all they ,parts,avionics ,and rebuild on the motor. Compare that figure to what the airplane will sell for ,if you do it all. Then consider if the work and money are worth it.
 
The thing is if you put in 50 AMUs to fix it up you'll have a Skylane with a new engine, possibly new interior, maybe new paint and whatever avionics suite you want. Yeah, you'll be into it for a wad of cash, but you'll have a much nicer airplane than the others that are going for 80 AMUs. I think its actually a good deal to take a project airplane and restore it. Sure you'll spend more than its worth, but that's a misnomer. You're comparing your restored airplane to ones that are old and tired. Try comparing it to a new one. now it looks like a bargain.
 
My airplane was someone else's project. The guy I bought it from started with a $3K Colt that had been stored for almost 20 years. Four years and $35K later he had a really nice Colt and kids starting college. He sold the plane to me for $17K.

There are two ways to look at a project plane. One is to plan to keep it forever and spend what it takes to make it what you want. This works only if you absolutely know that "forever" is more than 3 or 4 years.

The other way is to buy someone else's project after 3 or 4 years. :rolleyes:

Mark
 
Our club has a 182P (with the Q's engine) and I like it. A lot. If we added a GPS to it I'd like it even more. But, even /A it flies just fine and sure is comfortable. Take another look at it, fly it (if you can) and see if you can live with the warts for a while.
 
Upholstery and interior and easy and cheap if you're smart about it.

The panel on the other hand....

Plus higher time engine.


It's a 182, dime a dozen, I'd keep looking.
 
James331 said:
Upholstery and interior and easy and cheap if you're smart about it.



The panel on the other hand....



Plus higher time engine.





It's a 182, dime a dozen, I'd keep looking.
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Dime a dozen for 182's in the sub $30k range?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TangoWhiskey said:
This sounds like the kind of plane AOPA might look for to do a sponsored $200K upgrade on, then give you a $70K tax bill. But it doesn't matter, you won't win it unless you already own a plane.
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ROFL! Funniest thing I've read all day.

I tried to get them to clearly state what all the upgrade costs were on the "Better than New 182", because you know, damn it, they call themselves an OWNER's organization.

It'd be nice to see them actually advocate for owners, once. They never do.

They whore themselves out for ad revenue and freebies, to give away the plane, and no mention at all of what it would take the average 182 OWNER to do those things to theirs. Or more importantly "is it worth it"? That right there should have been a magazine article, but no... they would not want to insult the donors.

One of the many reasons I simply don't find them worth supporting anymore.

Add in their track record on the Hill and their disastrous claim that the former doofus as head guy would be a DC "insider" and instead creating a wine club... All the while pushing products that only benefit the Yodice family law firm... when you could simply HIRE them if you needed them...

Yeah, I was done. Enough of that stupidity.

Realistically, most of us are flying the equivalent of old custom cars at the "normal budgets" end of the scale, and not brand new aircraft. They're 30-40 years old and need similar care and feeding.

You can either buy the '68 Camaro already rebuilt and refurbished, or you can buy it needing a lot of work and enjoy doing it yourself, your way, but you won't escape it -- at the average age of the fleet nowadays -- unless you're going to toss another $100K to the wind and go newer.
 
James331 said:
Lol, that doesn't sound like a sub 30k 182, sounds like a very expensive one.
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The OP said it was $27k.

Plus needs an Annual

Plus might need a mag.

Under $30k for a 182.


Where are your "dime a dozen" 182's in the sub -30k range??


They ain't there.
 
JoseCuervo said:
The OP said it was $27k.

Plus needs an Annual

Plus might need a mag.

Under $30k for a 182.


Where are your "dime a dozen" 182's in the sub -30k range??


They ain't there.
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Seller is providing the Annual and it won't pass with a bad mag, so he'll have to fix that too.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Seller is providing the Annual and it won't pass with a bad mag, so he'll have to fix that too.
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If the seller will have the annual done at the shop of your choosing, it might not be a bad deal. Sounds like it's a flyer that could use some upgrades. If I was in a position to buy, and it passed annual with an impartial mechanic, i'd be all over it.
 
If you can't afford a better C-182 than that you can't afford one. Buying a cheap plane is only the start of a money pit.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Seller is providing the Annual and it won't pass with a bad mag, so he'll have to fix that too.
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If you do decide to go that route, if they are slick mags, just upgrade both to bendix
 
brien23 said:
If you can't afford a better C-182 than that you can't afford one. Buying a cheap plane is only the start of a money pit.
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That is pretty much nonsense.

Setting a budget for $27k acquisition price has nothing to do with what the Buyer can afford.

There is no connection between budget and wealth. I know way too many people who will foolishly set budgets beyond what their wealth will support.

The opposite, setting a low budget, should be viewed as good advice.


Again, a $27k 4-seat 182 is a helluva traveling machine for many.

There is no need to put new paint on it.

There is no need to fix a few broken interior plastics.

There is no need to upgrade avionics, panel, and radio.

The 1500 hour engine is a concern, but, so is a 1200 hour, and a 900 hour, and a 600 hour, and a 300 hour, and a 25 hour SMOH engine.

The OP might have good luck with the engine, and maybe replace a $950 cylinder every other year for the next 5 years.

For the right person, depending on goals, this could be a great plane for the next 300-500 hours. That's a lot of flying.
 
Jose, how many airplanes have you personally bought and owned and over how many years? Just curious.
 
Stewartb said:
Jose, how many airplanes have you personally bought and owned and over how many years? Just curious.
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2


First one purchased in 1984.



And, when I bought my most recent one, I was advised, based upon my budget, that I couldn't afford to buy the plane that was in my budget.


Never mind that I could write checks for a pretty nice King Air, but somehow, with logic like
If you can't afford a better C-182 than that you can't afford one
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being dispensed I had to laugh at people dispensing bad advice.


Not everyone wants an OshKosh winning paint job. I don't. I don't want to wash my plane every couple of weeks. I don't want to spend my Saturday's waxing the plane.

I have no need for a bunch of glass in the panel. The last 10 hours of my flying has been about 50-500 AGL, with some less than that. I like to keep my eyes outside the cockpit.

Look at that, original Cessna gauges, and they work just fine...
100fb8bcdd00e6dd02b35532a4fa3868.jpg


I have no need for Corinthian Leather seats, I want to be able to climb in the plane with dirty boots, dirty jeans, and, if lucky enough, a dead animal.

The OP plane is a perfectly good 182 for someone who would have similar requirements.
 
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