KHVN (New Haven) in the news

Matthew

Matthew

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Matthew
I came across this today:

The Supreme Court will decide this week to take up the case of the New Haven CT airport and decide if the airport will be able to extend the length of R2/20.

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/tong-v-tweed-new-haven-airport-authority/

State law limits the rwy length to 5600', its current length.

The airport administration wants to lengthen it so it can handle larger 121 aircraft.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...73_Tong v Tweed-NH Airport Petition FINAL.pdf

The arguments are: Can the city sue the State to lengthen the rwy, and can Federal law pre-empt a State law when there are no safety reasons (the airport is considered "safe", but the rwy is too short for some 121 aircraft to use) for lengthening the rwy.
 
This may be an interesting test of extent of the federal preemption doctrine for air transportation issues.
 
@Greg Bockelman used to fly 737s in and out of KHVN for United. Greg, given the small size of the local market, how big a plane do they need in there? And did you find the runway size constricting for the model 737 you were using? -Skip
 
I'm curious as to the back story why the state has laws restricting the size of the airport. Was that something pushed by the NIMBY crowd, or a way to politically protect a larger airport like the Wright Amendment used to be.
 
Skip Miller said:
@Greg Bockelman used to fly 737s in and out of KHVN for United. Greg, given the small size of the local market, how big a plane do they need in there? And did you find the runway size constricting for the model 737 you were using? -Skip
Click to expand...
Delta flies 737s into Key West and that’s like a 4800ft runway.
 
Skip Miller said:
@Greg Bockelman used to fly 737s in and out of KHVN for United. Greg, given the small size of the local market, how big a plane do they need in there? And did you find the runway size constricting for the model 737 you were using? -Skip
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Wow. You remember that? Don’t think I mentioned that more than once.

As far as the market goes, I can’t answer that. Above my pay grade, so to say.

I don’t recall which model I flew there. Probably the737-500. Maybe the -300. Just don’t remember. Not sure I would want to operate anything larger than a -700 in there.

I don’t have any experience with the 757 but with its dual tandem landing gear and 8 sets of brakes, I would think it could operate safely there.

Anything bigger, probably not.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I'm curious as to the back story why the state has laws restricting the size of the airport. Was that something pushed by the NIMBY crowd, or a way to politically protect a larger airport like the Wright Amendment used to be.
Click to expand...
Might be what happened.

Here's what's in the court petition:

>>>
In 2009, the City, the Town and the Authority entered into an agreement limiting the length of a runway at the Airport to 5,600 linear feet. The agreement called for the state legislature to codify the runway length, which it did that same year by enacting Conn. Gen. Stat. § 15-120j(c) (the “Tweed-NH statute”).
<<<

Here's the State law:

https://casetext.com/statute/genera...on-15-120j-purposes-and-powers-airport-runway
 
I found this background info in one of the docs:

>>>
The Airport serves the New Haven area. It has a catchment area-the area
from which an airport expects to draw commercial air service passengers-in
excess of 1,000,000 people. The Airport's primary runway, Runway 2/20, is
currently 5,600 feet long. The runway is one of the shortest commercial airport
runways in the country, and it is the shortest runway for an airport with a
catchment area as large as Tweed's area. The Airport's catchment area is the
largest catchment area without nonstop flights to Orlando, and there are no
flights at the Airport to a number of East Coast cities such as Boston, Washington
D.C., and Atlanta.

In 2009, the Connecticut legislature, seeking to prevent the expansion of
Runway 2/20, passed the Runway Statute, which provides that "Runway 2-20 of
the airport shall not exceed the existing paved runway length of five thousand six
hundred linear feet." Conn. Gen. Stat. § 15-120j( c). The Runway Statute prevents
Tweed from extending Runway 2/20 past its current length.
The short length of the Airport's runway has sharply limited the
availability of safe commercial air service at Tweed. The length of a runway has a
direct bearing on the weight load and passenger capacity that can be handled on
any given flight. For example, at the time of trial, American Airlines, the one
commercial airline providing service to and from the Airport, was unable to
safely fill its planes to capacity and was required, depending on the weather, to
leave between four and nine seats empty.
<<<

edit:

Could be NIMBYs, could be someone didn't want competition from another airport.
 
The length of a runway has a direct bearing on the weight, load and passenger capacity that can be handled on any given flight.

That sentence solves a bunch of mysteries for me. Of course a 737 can land there, but can it take off with full fuel, passengers and safety margin? And that makes a ton of sense, thanks.
 
Last edited:
Apparently it is a NIMBY issue.

From Wikipedia

Planned Expansion and Opposition[edit]
The future of the airport has been the subject of disagreement between the City of New Haven and the Town of East Haven. New Haven has advocated airport runway expansion, which would be required to attract more commercial air service and larger planes.[citation needed] Some groups of local residents have historically been opposed, saying that expansion would negatively affect the local environment and health of New Haven and East Haven residents.[8][9]

And from reading the rest of the Wiki article, is still quite controversial.
 
Yale University is in New Haven. Wild guess there might be one or two NIMBY's there. Nearest Airport with significant commercial service is likely Bradley (BDL) which serves Hartford. IIRC it's about an hour drive North and BDL is on the wrong side of Hartford if you are coming from New Haven. Lousy traffic situation.
 
From my reading, the airport is owned and operated by the City of New Haven, and is partially in their city limits. The other part is in the city limits of East Haven, and some in that community don't seem to want anything to do with the airport or expansion.
 
Hang 4 said:
Yale University is in New Haven. Wild guess there might be one or two NIMBY's there. Nearest Airport with significant commercial service is likely Bradley (BDL) which serves Hartford. IIRC it's about an hour drive North and BDL is on the wrong side of Hartford if you are coming from New Haven. Lousy traffic situation.
Click to expand...

The opposite. An institution like Yale would love better connectivity and the airport is not near the campus. It’s probably that the state wants it all centralized at Bradly (BDL) combined with opposition from local neighbors - Tweed is right in a bunch of residential neighborhoods near the beach.


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Southwest and the like are using Rnwy 8 at KBUR 5820 feet all the time.. though there have been some interesting moments.. :cool:
 
Can't imagine why anyone would want to fly into New Haven. I spent a week there one day. Place is a dump.
 
steingar said:
Can't imagine why anyone would want to fly into New Haven. I spent a week there one day. Place is a dump.
Click to expand...

“Cachement area of a million people”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
steingar said:
Can't imagine why anyone would want to fly into New Haven. I spent a week there one day. Place is a dump.
Click to expand...
Other than Yale or people in CT don’t want to drive to any of the NYC airports, I’m not sure.
 
As an edit, New Haven, like most Northeastern cities was pit-ish years ago... but New Haven, beginning probably about 10 years ago is a success story in real estate, business, academia, health care and restaurants, etc. fly up here, I’ll show you the place. Many people especially young professionals are moving in and buying homes, condos...
 
steingar said:
Can't imagine why anyone would want to fly into New Haven. I spent a week there one day. Place is a dump.
Click to expand...
I took the family there to go to the beach (crew car 5 min) and to the Peabody museum (the real original Brontosaurus - yes the brontosaurus is a real dinosaur, as of 2015, after a few decades of being a case of mistaken identity). Was a great trip.....until I had my partial power emergency landing on the way home.....
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I took the family there to go to the beach (crew car 5 min) and to the Peabody museum (the real original Brontosaurus - yes the brontosaurus is a real dinosaur, as of 2015, after a few decades of being a case of mistaken identity). Was a great trip.....until I had my partial power emergency landing on the way home.....
Click to expand...

Never have I thought of New Haven as a beach destination.
 
It is the closest beach to me in terms of time. Less than an hour of flight and 5 minutes by crew car. And the beach has a playground in the sand. Perfect for a 3-5 year old
 
CT's other (main) commercial airport is north of Hartford, about an hour north of New Haven without traffic. HVN would be a great option to not fighting Hartford traffic for a mid morning flight or returning in the afternoon, and much better than the 1.5 hours (again, without traffic) to LGA or JFK. Currently only has one or two AA Embraer 175 flights a day to Philly and weekend 175 service to Charlotte. Had better frequencies (4-5/day) back when they were flying Dash-8s out of there. Delta was there briefly with Rj service as well, but didn't last long.
 
I'd imagine New Haven airport could be pretty darn popular if it grew. It's a real pain to get from Westchester/Connecticut to the NY Metro area airports on Long Island and Newark, and there's zero public transportation. Stewart in Poughkeepsie was growing in popularity when I last checked several years ago - a further but much much easier drive.
 
Re airports and beach... Research Block Island (KBID). The public beach, which is a short walk from downtown, is superb. There is a short car ride from the airport to downtown. Well worth it !
 
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