KEZF-1H0 VFR only.

KeithASanford

KeithASanford

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MyTurnToFly
Let's say I wanted to fly VFR from Virginia to Missouri and back over the course of a week maybe once a month from April to October. Just for sniffs and giggles, what airplane would you buy in the $30k-$50k range to make this trip? I understand that weather could cause diversions and some times wouldn't allow the trip or the return to be made at all. What aircraft would you buy in that price range that would give you the best chance to complete the mission? Give me the aircraft and the reasons why. Take into account the course from Va to Mo and all the challenges flying only VFR will bring. The aircraft can be IFR equipped, but I want you to choose it for VFR purposes. Payload will never exceed 240 lbs. Thanks.
 
Well, I have done this sort of trip several times, VFR only, in both a 182 and a Mooney. I wouldn't want anything much slower than the 182, so you could do it in one day, weather-permitting. But pretty much anything with wings and an engine could do it, just a question of how much time you want to spend in the air.
 
BrianR said:
Well, I have done this sort of trip several times, VFR only, in both a 182 and a Mooney. I wouldn't want anything much slower than the 182, so you could do it in one day, weather-permitting. But pretty much anything with wings and an engine could do it, just a question of how much time you want to spend in the air.
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I'm pretty sure my limit is 3 hours. I've never flown that route before, so I don't know how scenic it is, but I know staying hydrated is important so I'm not one to play chicken with my bladder. :D Not sure if speed will become an issue later. I thought my budget would narrow the field quite a bit. I know I'm not interested in spending more than 30% of what I pay for the plane to maintain it annually.
 
240# max, pilot and baggage? No pax? At the risk of getting flamed, I'm thinking an RV-4 or an older -6. I know a very nice, very well built 6 that just sold for very slightly above your stated budget; I've seen others going for less and of course a lot of 4s would be even less expensive. They're reasonably fast and fuel efficient -- make one stop for "drain & fill" and be on your way. You can do whatever maintenance you feel confident doing yourself and have someone else do the rest, along with the annual condition inspection.
 
KeithASanford said:
I'm pretty sure my limit is 3 hours. I've never flown that route before, so I don't know how scenic it is, but I know staying hydrated is important so I'm not one to play chicken with my bladder. :D Not sure if speed will become an issue later. I thought my budget would narrow the field quite a bit. I know I'm not interested in spending more than 30% of what I pay for the plane to maintain it annually.
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Three hours total, or per leg? At 613nm, you'd need a 205kt airplane and a low pressure system below you to make it in three.

More likely are two three-hour legs. It'll make for a long day, regardless.

In my experience, this trip will not be practical on a regular basis for a VFR-only pilot. Unless you are very flexible, the appalachians will cause you all sorts of problems.
 
The 240lb payload is me and an overnight bag. The three hours is per leg and I am very flexible. I'm basically giving myself a week to fly there, spend a day and fly back. This would not be business travel and if weather wouldn't accommodate, I wouldn't go. If there was a way around the Appalachians or across a low point, I'm open to that too.
 
Impractical.
It's not going to be VFR for this trip home.
600+ nm? You need 200 kts?
30-50K?
200 kts?
 
Something reasonably fast, probably an RV, Lancair, or Glasair of some variety.
 
bbchien said:
Impractical.
It's not going to be VFR for this trip home.
600+ nm? You need 200 kts?
30-50K?
200 kts?
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Not impractical, he's limiting each leg to 3 hours, not the total flight time, so it's not 200 kt -- it's whatever he can afford for $50K or less. A 172 would do it, but you'd be hating life after a few trips. Good way to build hours, though.

Doing it in a reasonable amount of time for $50K purchase price isn't impractical, it would just be tough to do with a standard airworthiness certificate.
 
DaleB said:
240# max, pilot and baggage? No pax? At the risk of getting flamed, I'm thinking an RV-4 or an older -6. I know a very nice, very well built 6 that just sold for very slightly above your stated budget; I've seen others going for less and of course a lot of 4s would be even less expensive. They're reasonably fast and fuel efficient -- make one stop for "drain & fill" and be on your way. You can do whatever maintenance you feel confident doing yourself and have someone else do the rest, along with the annual condition inspection.
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I know of a couple good RVs right there at EZF and just around the corner at Dogwood. You should ask those guys what they think of the aircraft.
 
VFR, no big mountains, 615nm distance, 240 lb payload? $30-50K purchase budget? 3-hour max legs (which means a fuel stop)? I'm thinking something light, fast, and comfortable. Several E-AB's suggest themselves, and if you're happy with the issues that come with buying a plane built by who-knows-who, one of the 2-seat RV's might work, if you can find a nice one in that price range, and I have no idea what the market is on them. An AA-1x with an STC'd O-320 engine and the aux fuel tanks might also work well, but an AA-5A Cheetah with the 51 gallon tanks would probably work better -- both should be easily available in that price range.

No doubt somebody's going to suggest a Mooney, but the Mooney you get for that price probably isn't one you want to own. You probably aren't going to find anything fast enough to do the trip non-stop in that price range, either. As for a 182, I can't see feeding a 230HP engine to do a job that a 150HP engine will do. If you want 182 speed, you can get that on a lot less money (purchase and ongoing) with a Grumman Tiger.
 
Certified airplane? Keep it in the 30K range and get a mid-70's Cherokee Warrior if you're not looking for anything fancy. A couple three-hour legs and your're there cruising at 120mph/105kts unless I calculated wrong. Spend 25-30K(ish) and drop in an electroaire electronic ignition and you'll can do it on less than 7 gal/hour. The Warrior is nothing fancy, of course, but if your mission is to get there and back its quite practical and relatively comfortable, so there you go. And mile-per-dollar, it's a good bird.

If you want to get there quickly, the RV-4 is a great (and very fun) airplane. Just make sure your pre-purchase inspection is done by someone who really knows their stuff, and who is not connected in any way to the airplane. There are plenty of people out there who can help with that.

Are you planning to own it for a short while, or keep it long term? That is also important when it comes to which plane (if any) makes sense.
 
greghughes said:
Certified airplane? Keep it in the 30K range and get a mid-70's Cherokee Warrior if you're not looking for anything fancy.
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You can stay in the same price and operating/ownership cost range and go at least 10 faster with a Grumman Cheetah.
 
Lancair 320 could make it in one leg, it's a fast plane and not having to stop makes you much much faster.
 
An older 250 Comanche would do it and fit the budget.
 
KeithASanford said:
What exactly am I missing in this listing? Why is this airplane so cheap? :sosp:
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Something isn't right there. But if it is a good airplane that would fit the bill. It doesn't have a C/S prop so that will affect take off performance. A Lancair is not a low time pilot airplane. But some training would fix that. Don
 
KeithASanford said:
What exactly am I missing in this listing? Why is this airplane so cheap? :sosp:
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Fixed pitch and it's a 235, so it's not as roomy as the 320/360. The 235s always seem to go for a lot cheaper than its bigger siblings.
 
yakdriver said:
Something isn't right there. But if it is a good airplane that would fit the bill. It doesn't have a C/S prop so that will affect take off performance. A Lancair is not a low time pilot airplane. But some training would fix that. Don
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So where do I find a Lancair expert to give this the once over before I start writing checks?
 
KeithASanford said:
So where do I find a Lancair expert to give this the once over before I start writing checks?
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Good question, personally I'd call down to the factory and ask them who is in that region they could recommend and if they know any history on the plane.
 
Henning said:
Good question, personally I'd call down to the factory and ask them who is in that region they could recommend and if they know any history on the plane.
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Which raises another question. Are builders rated when the aircraft is initially deemed airworthy? Are they given a grade by the governing body that signs them into airworthiness?
 
KeithASanford said:
Which raises another question. Are builders rated when the aircraft is initially deemed airworthy? Are they given a grade by the governing body that signs them into airworthiness?
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Sure, but it's pass/fail.

In other words, no. You either get an airworthiness certificate issued, or you don't.
 
KeithASanford said:
Which raises another question. Are builders rated when the aircraft is initially deemed airworthy? Are they given a grade by the governing body that signs them into airworthiness?
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Pass/fail only. The pass is provisional and requires 20-40 hrs to be flown off before finalized, but no, there is no grading or commentary recorded by the inspector.
 
KeithASanford said:
I'm a PPL student with 15.6 hours. This is not exactly a trainer I know. I just got carried away when I saw the possibilities...:D
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Ah gotcha, the insurance minimums on these things are pretty ridiculous. Definitely not a good first plane :wink2:
 
Excluding mogas experimentals that can do more on 0320.....

Type certificated planes now:

lets say you are talking 600NM line of site. That will get tiresome at 130knots (tiger) so I would definately be looking for a plane that picks up its feet and has high performance.

Mooney E or F might get 150 knots (a run out J model might be in that price range and go 155-160 knots)... if you are a healthy fit and trim sort of guy. For the rest of us Comanche 250, Debonair with 225 hp or more or old bo with the same hp or more and even a Cessna 210.

I think you want to get as close to 155-160 knots as possible. That makes this a 3-4 hr trip or less going east depending on tail winds and coming back west you will have head winds averaging 25-35 knots so 5 hrs returning west 4 hrs going out east.

I do not know if you can find a 250 Turbo Comanche and go 175-187 knots for that budget but that would be a good contender.

Before you say you can do it with a fixed gear (other than Cirrus), there will be times that you cannot fly directly but have to fly around weather so those trips will be intolerable if you are also going 122 knots and coming back west in the winter time.

KeithASanford said:
Let's say I wanted to fly VFR from Virginia to Missouri and back over the course of a week maybe once a month from April to October. Just for sniffs and giggles, what airplane would you buy in the $30k-$50k range to make this trip? I understand that weather could cause diversions and some times wouldn't allow the trip or the return to be made at all. What aircraft would you buy in that price range that would give you the best chance to complete the mission? Give me the aircraft and the reasons why. Take into account the course from Va to Mo and all the challenges flying only VFR will bring. The aircraft can be IFR equipped, but I want you to choose it for VFR purposes. Payload will never exceed 240 lbs. Thanks.
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KeithASanford said:
I'm a PPL student with 15.6 hours. This is not exactly a trainer I know. I just got carried away when I saw the possibilities...:D
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Buy it now, finish your training in it. When you pass a check ride in it, you'll be ready lol. The trick will be finding an instructor capable of teaching you from your level. You won't get your PP in 40 hrs in it, but you will learn the right habits right off the bat.
 
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