Kayak in a C172N

talkingbob

Pre-takeoff checklist
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JonC
Looking at it being loaded from the van, I don't think so. You'd be better off strapping it to the belly. Plus, it says it didn't get funded, are they even selling it?
 
Looking at it being loaded from the van, I don't think so. You'd be better off strapping it to the belly. Plus, it says it didn't get funded, are they even selling it?

Careful with external loads, there’s a bit that goes into how it’s done and even then it’s bit some high time guys in the butt. From TC


Aircraft Carrying External Loads
1. The maximum size and weight of the external load, as well as limitations on the positioning of the load, must be determined. The effect of the asymmetric load must be addressed when the load is carried on one side of the aircraft. The maximum weight that may be so carried may be limited by aileron authority available to keep the wings level during takeoff. This applies particularly when a dense load, such as lumber, is carried.

2. For seaplanes, the load must be positioned in order that it will not catch and retain a significant volume of water during takeoff and landing.

3. A load may either be secured directly to the seaplane float struts or special provisions (e.g., boat rack) may be made for the carriage of external loads. Essentially, a repeatable means of securing the load to the aircraft must be determined. The load must be tightly restrained and held immobile. An external load may not be attached in any way to the wing struts unless continued compliance with applicable structural requirements is shown.

4. A single failure of a tie-down strap, rope or fitting must not be hazardous. Stacked lumber must be fastened together to form a unit such that no single piece(s) may come loose from the stack.

5. Emergency entry to or egress from the aircraft must not be unduly impeded by carriage of the external load, particularly in the takeoff and landing configurations. Any special procedures required or alternate egress routes must be clearly marked on the aircraft and these must be readily visible to persons attempting to leave the aircraft.

6. It must be shown that the position of the external load does not adversely affect the following:

(a) the travel of the flight controls;

(b) the operation of the undercarriage or flaps;

(c) the airflow in the vicinity of the pilot or static air sources;

(d) the propeller or rotor thrust; and

(e) the airflow in the vicinity of any air intake or exhaust port.
7. Performance - When a boat or canoe is carried as an external load on an aeroplane, the performance requirements of this AC apply, except that takeoff, climb, and landing performance need not be addressed provided that the certified maximum takeoff weight is reduced by twice the weight of the external load. Where the basic approved maximum weight is 3000 lb and the boat weight 100 lb, the maximum approved takeoff weight, including the boat, would be 3000 lb - 2 x 100 lb = 2800 lb.

8. Carriage Of Passengers - Up to 4 passengers may be transported in an aircraft carrying boats or canoes as external loads if the aeroplane has not been used for operations with loads exceeding certified maximum takeoff weight in accordance with this AC in accordance with the following:

(a) the gross takeoff weight reduction, detailed in paragraph 7 above, is specified as a limitation or compliance with the climb requirements of the basis of certification has been demonstrated;

(b) the aircraft is operated by day VFR only;

(c) the aircraft is operated within an approved flight envelope wherein acceptable flying qualities have been demonstrated;

(d) emergency egress from the passenger compartment is not unduly impeded by a boat or other externally mounted cargo. There must be clearly marked escape routes, and the passengers must be briefed before each takeoff if alternate escape routes are required; and

(e) placard requirements of paragraph 5.28(c)(6) of this AC are met.
9. An applicant must conduct flight tests of the proposed configuration and provide a flight manual supplement in accordance with this AC to obtain an approval.

10. The following limitations are suggested for aeroplanes carrying external loads except as otherwise determined by the approval process:

(a) maximum speed 100 kt;

(b) maximum bank angle 30°;

(c) ay VFR operations only;

(d) intentional spinning prohibited;

(e) intentional side-slipping prohibited; and

(f) boats and canoes are to be carried partially inverted, stern forward.
11. Past Approvals. STCs have been issued for a number of boat and canoe racks, particularly for the DHC-2 and DHC-3 aircraft. The status of these approvals has not changed, and they remain valid. A number of Canadian-registered aircraft have been granted LSTCs or one-off modification approvals for the carriage of external loads, and these approvals also remain valid. Additional LSTCs for aircraft previously cleared for the carriage of external loads may be possible without further Transport Canada Civil Aviation (TCCA) flight tests if the proposal is structurally acceptable and the applicant submits an appropriate flight test report and flight or operating manual supplement in accordance with this AC. TCCA flight testing may be required if one or more of the limitations noted in paragraph 10 are not adhered to.

Previous approvals include the following:

Aeroplane Type/Model

Type of Load

Limits

Beavers with 4580, 4930, or W6000 floats
with a variety of approved boat racks carrying canoes up to 18 ft or boats up to 14 ft in length weighing up to 260 lb. VNE=135 mph.

Beavers with 4930 or 4580 floats
carrying canoes up to 16 ft weighing 120 lb on the float struts.

Beavers
on wheels carrying an 18-ft, 150-lb canoe on a carrier mounted on the left aft of fuselage.

Otters with 7170 or 7850 floats
with boat racks or 7850 floats with a 15-ft boat weighing 220 lb or a 19-ft canoe weighing 120 lb on the struts on one or both sides of the aircraft at speeds up to 120 KIAS.

Cessna 180


with 17-ft canoe or kayak weighing 90 lb on one or both sides tied to the struts.

Cessna 185


with 18-ft, 120-lb canoe or up to 250 lb of stacked lumber against the float struts.

Cessna 206


with 14-ft, 175-lb boat on a boat rack (stern forward, with boat 18 in. aft of the prop plane).

Piper PA 12


(150 h) 17-ft, 90-lb canoe or folding boat on a boat rack, speeds up to 100 mph. “
 
Any external load seems more bother than its worth, for the average lower 48’er.

Maybe just rent a kayak when you get where you’re going?
 
Just wondering if anyone has done this?
I am considering this kayak and wondered if it would fit in a 172N. Obviously, would not be able to have any pax in the back...
Thoughts?

Here's the 'yak:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/point65sweden/gemini-gt-modular-solo-tandem-hybrid-kayak

...And here's the dimensions:
https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/01...ormat&q=92&s=c54fdb2aaf469d5cf28a4360295c4b6d

Looking at those dimensions I think it would be easy if you took the right and rear seats out. Be sure to find what they weigh and do a weight and balance. Probably no big deal. 172’s are not known have forward CG issues, but I’d do a thorough one
 
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The door will have to be removed and the kayak loaded over the wing strut from the front.
 
Looking at those dimensions I think it would be easy if you took the right and rear seats out. Be sure to find what they weigh and do a weight and balance. Probably no big deal. 172’s are not known have forward CG issues, but I’d do a thorough one
Taking the copilot seat out was not part of the plan. That doesn't sound "easy" to me. Plus, the whole point of a tandem yak would be going WITH someone else and paddling at the destination...
There is an airport literally ON a lake about 30 minutes from my home airport, so I thought it would be fun to just fly out to it, pull the kayak pieces out of the plane, then put them together and go paddling.
Also, YES the kayak was funded - it's for sale on Amazon.

RE: Weight and Balance... All three sections are less than 100 Lbs.
 
Well if the airport is literally on a lake, maybe you should take a floatplane.
 
Well if the airport is literally on a lake, maybe you should take a floatplane.
None available. Also, not seaplane rated. I will look into blow-up boats/kayaks, although they don't look very promising to me...
 
There are some decent inflatable kayaks available. Should be fine for lake use.
 
Taking the copilot seat out was not part of the plan. That doesn't sound "easy" to me. Plus, the whole point of a tandem yak would be going WITH someone else and paddling at the destination...
There is an airport literally ON a lake about 30 minutes from my home airport, so I thought it would be fun to just fly out to it, pull the kayak pieces out of the plane, then put them together and go paddling.
Also, YES the kayak was funded - it's for sale on Amazon.

RE: Weight and Balance... All three sections are less than 100 Lbs.

Ah. Didn’t notice it was a tandem. Taking the rear seat out may be enough if you can get it through over the folded down front. If you don’t have some answered by the next time I get out to the airport I’ll check it out and see close it looks
 
I kept a 10' inflatable air floor boat and a 15hp outboard for airplane use for 15 years. Harder these days with heavier 4-strokes but still doable.
 
I just got an inflatable kayak that is rated for Class 3 rapids. I picked it out of a catalog for a work anniversary milestone...didn’t want a watch or silverware or TV/stereo. Used it for fishing a couple weeks ago. I was impressed with the construction and quality.
 
Without turning this into a non-aviation, kayak-oriented forum post, I will say that that kayak had one bad review. I think that it is clear that the only easy way to put a tandem kayak in a 172 is to buy an inflatable one. Now the question is,do I buy one for $80 or one for $600.

If you want to use it for more than dabbling, you want something that handles in the wind and currents. My experience with cheap inflatables is that they have poor directional stability and are relatively easy to puncture. Expensive inflatables I have no experience with.

Or a folding one. (This is an example, it's not the only one: https://www.klepperamerica.com/doubles-545/) The dimensions look like it would fit pretty well in the back seat. They do have decent keel and hull shape for directional stability,

John
 
Without turning this into a non-aviation, kayak-oriented forum post, I will say that that kayak had one bad review. I think that it is clear that the only easy way to put a tandem kayak in a 172 is to buy an inflatable one. Now the question is,do I buy one for $80 or one for $600.

Geez, just buy a bigger plane! How is this so hard? :D
 
Without turning this into a non-aviation, kayak-oriented forum post, I will say that that kayak had one bad review. I think that it is clear that the only easy way to put a tandem kayak in a 172 is to buy an inflatable one. Now the question is,do I buy one for $80 or one for $600.

Oh, you're going to have to be more specific, I thought you wanted one that fit, now you're saying you want one that actually works. :)
 
Without turning this into a non-aviation, kayak-oriented forum post, I will say that that kayak had one bad review. I think that it is clear that the only easy way to put a tandem kayak in a 172 is to buy an inflatable one. Now the question is,do I buy one for $80 or one for $600.
I own an Advanced Elements AdvancedFrame Convertible. It is fairly heavy (56 lbs), but they make a single that is lighter. If you are planning any serious paddling, step up (it glides and tracks pretty closely to a hard side, though it is affected more by wind). If you are just paddling around the shore of a lake on a calm day, you can probably get by with the cheapie. Get a battery powered pump (like a Ryobi Inflator), but even with a hand pump, I can inflate it about 5 minutes (double action pump). The convertible can either be configured as a one man or two man and holds quite a bit of cargo, if you want to boat in camp or pile in a couple of dogs.
 
3.jpg


https://www.rei.com/product/116736/oru-kayak-beach-lt-folding-kayak
 

While the runway goes nearly up to the water's edge, parking is at the other end. Whatever you get, you'll be walking nearly a mile with it on grass or dirt trails.

What if you loaded it underneath and rigged a release so you could air drop it on short final to 04? :D
 
While the runway goes nearly up to the water's edge, parking is at the other end. Whatever you get, you'll be walking nearly a mile with it on grass or dirt trails.

What if you loaded it underneath and rigged a release so you could air drop it on short final to 04? :D

I was planning on back-taxiing the runway, stopping the plane, then chucking the kayak out of the plane and then starting the plane and parking it, sans kayak. Guess I will have to call up my aviation attorney to see if that's legal to do...
 
I have it, it’s a good one. Stable, easy to control, etc


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Thank you for your insight. I read the positive Amazon Reviews for it too. Considering it is almost 1/10th the cost of the other one, I may just try that out and if I get too frustrated, sell it on Craigslist and buy the $700 AE yak. I currently have a 8-9 foot "lake" kayak that I got at Dick's years ago and is certainly not top-of-the-line, although it is hard plastic and not inflatable.
I can use the paddle that I already have, which is pretty good, imho.
 
I was planning on back-taxiing the runway, stopping the plane, then chucking the kayak out of the plane and then starting the plane and parking it, sans kayak. Guess I will have to call up my aviation attorney to see if that's legal to do...
Just get a collapsible hand truck and wheel your stuff across the tarmac.
 
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