Katrina and American society (political)

Ken Ibold

Final Approach
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Ken Ibold
I don't agree with everything in this article, but it does contain a rather interesting perspective ...

> >
> > An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of
> > the Welfare State
> >
> > by Robert Tracinski
> >
> > It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to
figure
> > out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame
them,
> > because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is
> > going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense
if
> > you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.
> >
> > If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public
officials
> > is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send
> > transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send
> > engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's
infrastructure.
> > For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern:
the
> > heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard
work
> > and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps
being
> > taken to clean up and rebuild.
> >
> > Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would
have
> > to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as
if
> > they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
> > included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain,
wind,
> > and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
> >
> > But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
> >
> > The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response
by
> > federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by
Hurricane
> > Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television
> > channel has gotten the story wrong.
> >
> > The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not
> > happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four
> > decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
> >
> > The man-made disaster is the welfare state.
> >
> > For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
> > confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to
behave
> > in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have
behaved
> > in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they
> > have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In
> > fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.
> >
> > When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the
occasion.
> > They work together to rescue people in danger, and they
spontaneously
> > organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true
in
> > America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own
> > initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take
care
> > of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small
> > town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary
citizens
> > to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops,
> > directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the
> > spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).
> >
> > So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
> >
> > To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
> > description from a Washington Times story:
> >
> > "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying
fists,
> > knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the
streets;
> > and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
> >
> > "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen
> > poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and
> > gunfire....
> >
> > "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
> > Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
> > shoot-to-kill orders.
> >
> > " 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the
> > streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and
loaded.
> > These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than
willing
> > to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' "
> >
> > The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this
> > article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests,
> > riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by
a
> > rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be
yelling
> > at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
> >
> > What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse
for
> > an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly
mobs
> > to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing
> > the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes
> > people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super
Dome?
> >
> > Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
> > destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to
help
> > them?
> >
> > Sherri figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life
> > level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel,
she
> > told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied
> > architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located
in
> > the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor
> > Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in
> > America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for
> > uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since,
> > mercifully, been demolished.)
> >
> > What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a
> > whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the
> > informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most
news
> > channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of
the
> > residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the
hurricane,
> > and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the
> > city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an
> > additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated
> > that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in
the
> > city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no
doubt a
> > significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large
> > number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
> > and vice versa.
> >
> > There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when
> > the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of
> > people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state,
> > people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and
> > self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of
sheep--on
> > whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack
of
> > wolves.
> >
> > All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence
of
> > the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of
> > the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But
in a
> > city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is
to
> > ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to
> > political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in
> > case of emergency.
> >
> > No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In
fact,
> > some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush,
for
> > example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New
> > Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example
is
> > an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a
supercilious
> > Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the
> > truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system
that
> > was the exact opposite of individualism.
> >
> > What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences
of
> > the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an
emergency
> > is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
> > responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values
respond
> > to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to
> > overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and
> > complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't
use
> > the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow
men.
> >
> > But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
> > saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't
own
> > anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
> > businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never
worried
> > about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting?
But
> > living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.
> >
> > The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it
sustains
> > and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral
> > ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that
no
> > one is reporting.
 
Seems like more blaming the victims to me.

Let's face it - any evacuation plan that didn't include evacuating nursing home patients is seriously lacking. Evacuating people who can't afford to evacuate themselves is just the next step.

On the flip side - I totally understand stealing food and water in an emergency. I can even understand stealing clothing to replace tattered/filthy/wet clothing. But somebody has gotta tell me how a DVD player is a survival need.

I think there's a requirement someplace that all conservatives have to say the phrase "welfare parasite" once in a while. :D
 
"There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves."

Well said.
 
MSmith said:
Seems like more blaming the victims to me.

Let's face it - any evacuation plan that didn't include evacuating nursing home patients is seriously lacking. Evacuating people who can't afford to evacuate themselves is just the next step.

On the flip side - I totally understand stealing food and water in an emergency. I can even understand stealing clothing to replace tattered/filthy/wet clothing. But somebody has gotta tell me how a DVD player is a survival need.

I think there's a requirement someplace that all conservatives have to say the phrase "welfare parasite" once in a while. :D

Mark:

It is not so much blaming the victims, as it is condemning a system which discourages individual accountabilitry and promotes dependency. For that matter, nothing in that piece blames the victims at all.

As for the "welfare parasite" comment, any legitimate conservative would be derelict in his or her commitment to effective and productive change if they did *not* attack the system of institutional dependency the welfare state has created.
 
A lot of the people who stayed behind in NO were not on welfare. They were working stiffs. Some with kids in college. As Harry Connick said, "these are decent people." Just because there are criminals and drug dealers in the neighborhood doesn't mean you should be treated as one.

Which were all those of elderly people who were left to die? They were on Medicare and SSA so they're welfare cheats? Is there *a chance* that they were the people who worked and raised kids and scraped and built and bought houses who happened to make the sin of growing old?

You might have caught Geraldo doing one of his meltdowns on Fox screaming that the people at the Superdome should have been allowed to walk across the bridge and find a way to survive.

On last night's Nightline we heard why they couldn't leave. The police in the next parish, which is upscale, were sending them back across the bridge at gunpoint.

They were protecting a nearby shopping center which had been looted and set on fire. Y'know, they all were criminals.

The chief of police was incoherent about what they did. Let's hope he's going to have to answer for it.

http://a.abcnews.com/podcast/050905ntl.mp3

I know that I would go out my own and tell them to go ahead and shoot, but since my skin is a different shade I probably wouldn't have to.

I'm ashamed and disgusted.
 
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mikea said:
I know that I would go out my own and tell them to go ahead and shoot, but since my skin is a different shade I probably wouldn't have to.

I'm ashamed and disgusted.

I'm ashamed and disgusted that the police would pull that crap too.

I was with your whole argument until the cry of racism came around. Racism is too easy of a scapegoat for every problem.

It seems that anytime something bad happens to a minority, its because he's a minority. It has nothing to do with the fact that sometimes life sucks, or bad things happen to good people. Nope, gotta be the man holding people down.

Wolf Blitzer is now on my list of people I will never trust for news again, once I saw him on TV slapassing the Rainbow Push Coalition, saying that September 11th was handled better because it didn't happen to an almost all black community.

No mention, AT ALL, about the fact that September 11th occured in two precise locations, not the entire Upper East Coast. Apples to Oranges.

A lot of people screwed this up. Most people in power screwed up their part of the effort. I attribute that to misunderstanding the true situation (and no one could have said the levee was gonna break), not racism.

Next thing you know, I'm gonna be called a racist because I think all races should actually earn their jobs...
 
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NickDBrennan said:
Wolf Blitzer is now on my list of people I will never trust for news again, once I saw him on TV slapassing the Rainbow Push Coalition, saying that September 11th was handled better because it didn't happen to an almost all black community.

No mention, AT ALL, about the fact that September 11th occured in two precise locations, not the entire Upper East Coast. Apples to Oranges.

At the same time I raised my estimation of Anderson Cooper when he asked some tough questions of Jesse Jackson. Not the usual softballs that Wolfie and others keep tossing him.

I'm glad to be home from Tokyo and have a choice of news programs again. CNN was the only thing in English on that TV set. Yuck!!!
 
mikea said:
A lot of the people who stayed behind in NO were not on welfare. They were working stiffs. Some with kids in college. As Harry Connick said, "these are decent people." Just because there are criminals and drug dealers in the neighborhood doesn't mean you should be treated as one.

Which were all those of elderly people who were left to die? They were on Medicare and SSA so they're welfare cheats? Is there *a chance* that they were the people who worked and raised kids and scraped and built and bought houses who happened to make the sin of growing old?

You might have caught Geraldo doing one of his meltdowns on Fox screaming that the people at the Superdome should have been allowed to walk across the bridge and find a way to survive.

On last night's Nightline we heard why they couldn't leave. The police in the next parish, which is upscale, were sending them back across the bridge at gunpoint.

They were protecting a nearby shopping center which had been looted and set on fire. Y'know, they all were criminals.

The chief of police was incoherent about what they did. Let's hope he's going to have to answer for it.

http://a.abcnews.com/podcast/050905ntl.mp3

I know that I would go out my own and tell them to go ahead and shoot, but since my skin is a different shade I probably wouldn't have to.

I'm ashamed and disgusted.


wow, I didn't hear that. I'm disgusted too.
 
SCCutler said:
Mark:

It is not so much blaming the victims, as it is condemning a system which discourages individual accountabilitry and promotes dependency. For that matter, nothing in that piece blames the victims at all.

As for the "welfare parasite" comment, any legitimate conservative would be derelict in his or her commitment to effective and productive change if they did *not* attack the system of institutional dependency the welfare state has created.


Excellent Spike! Thanks.:yes:
 
I think if we all were taught this repeatedly at home and in school from the time we were 5 yrs old we would all be a lot better off and we would not have had such problems in this hurricane, what do you think?

1. It is wrong to expect the anyone, especially the government to look after you. You have to learn to look after yourself.

2. If your fellow man is in need, offer a helping hand.
 
NickDBrennan said:
I'm ashamed and disgusted that the police would pull that crap too.

I was with your whole argument until the cry of racism came around. Racism is too easy of a scapegoat for every problem.

It seems that anytime something bad happens to a minority, its because he's a minority. It has nothing to do with the fact that sometimes life sucks, or bad things happen to good people. Nope, gotta be the man holding people down.

I agree with you. but in this case it it is blatant racism. This Chief of Police Lee in Jefferson Parish is famous for it. He's Chinese, but the upscale white folk there love him. He had his officers stop and turn back "those people" driving though "in rickety cars" because they could just be casing the town for burglaries.

The "white folks find food, black folks loot" thing is a bogus post from ONE blogger. The photographer who took the picture of the white couple and wrote the caption said the food literally floated by them and they grabbed it. Is that looting? Just like "Al Gore said he invented the Internet" thing it's destined to never die. Once Jesse and Al Sharpton and Quanye-Whassiname West latched unto that, the truth is gone forever.

Hey, I live in Jesse Jackson's city. You can count on him to show up where ever there's a camera to ask for a "dialog." The dialog always ends with a bunch of money going to him or his family. BTW, if the camera showing all those people standing with him goes into a wide shot you get to see that aren't a lot of people standing behind him.
 
Who are "we" going to blame when those who stayed behind after repeatedly being asked, even begged, to leave die? They are mostly black, mostly poor, and not heeding the evacuation order for at least a second time.

Who will we blame when they die? Surely not the victims....
 
Ghery said:
At the same time I raised my estimation of Anderson Cooper when he asked some tough questions of Jesse Jackson. Not the usual softballs that Wolfie and others keep tossing him.

I'm glad to be home from Tokyo and have a choice of news programs again. CNN was the only thing in English on that TV set. Yuck!!!

Cooper was brutal with everyone, Republican and Democrat, last week. Seems the gay rich kid from New york (He's a Vanderbilt ) proved his stuff. I too have been impressed. Its good to have a media with a backbone back again.
 
mikea said:
I agree with you. but in this case it it is blatant racism. This Chief of Police Lee in Jefferson Parish is famous for it. He's Chinese, but the upscale white folk there love him. He had his officers stop and turn back "those people" driving though "in rickety cars" because they could just be casing the town for burglaries.

The "white folks find food, black folks loot" thing is a bogus post from ONE blogger. The photographer who took the picture of the white couple and wrote the caption said the food literally floated by them and they grabbed it. Is that looting? Just like "Al Gore said he invented the Internet" thing it's destined to never die. Once Jesse and Al Sharpton and Quanye-Whassiname West latched unto that, the truth is gone forever.

Hey, I live in Jesse Jackson's city. You can count on him to show up where ever there's a camera to ask for a "dialog." The dialog always ends with a bunch of money going to him or his family. BTW, if the camera showing all those people standing with him goes into a wide shot you get to see that aren't a lot of people standing behind him.


Jesse's time has come and gone. Obama is the new face of African American politics.
 
Alan said:
Who are "we" going to blame when those who stayed behind after repeatedly being asked, even begged, to leave die? They are mostly black, mostly poor, and not heeding the evacuation order for at least a second time.

Who will we blame when they die? Surely not the victims....

Come on.. These are poor people. They don't have the means to leave or they don't want to leave their homes unprotected. Really. I worked for five years in an inner city Parish and its a completely different reality. Maybe they bare some responsibility for their actions. They know this. So do the idiots building multi million dollar homes on the coast that then get Federal flood insurance.

Either way these people didn't deserve to sit trapped for days on end while politician point fingers and blame red tape. Real leaders cut through red tape. Real leader end their vacation early when the worst natural disaster to hit American in a Hundred years strikes.

The problem with rants like the one you sighted is they only talk about welfare for the poor. Well, you don't have to scratch too deep to find lots of government projects for the middle class. Bridges to nowhere in Alaska, Federal flood insurance for the rich, farm subsidies. Not to mention ATC for us. Ever ask the coast guard how many rich jerks they rescue from expensive boats each year?

Lots of fat cats got rich building on floodplains that should never have been developed. Lots of corrupt southern democrats went along with this. Those houses got sold to mostly poor folk. The developer went on to become pompous condescending pr****s lecturing the poor about the dangers of the welfare State.

I know, I'm over simplifying. Sounding shrill. But I loved that city and its people and I'm sick of rich white folks justifying the terrible response with some cheezy, rehashed, college republican welfare state arguments.
 
There is an unfortunate reality that the majority of people who are not lucky to have enough income need to understand. Without the poor, there could be no comfort. If everyone had money, then the money that everyone had would be worth less (not worthless....but worth less).

Thats one of the things I have been trying to convince people who are arguing that the Federal Minimum Wage needs to be upped. At first, it would do wonders. People would get a jump towards financial security. What happens to those who were making, say, $10/hr before the minimum wage was raised. Suddenly, that $10/hr job is not actually paying as much as it was before.

In this great country, everyone has a chance to make it rich, or even make it comfortable. That's not saying that everyone is going to, but one man has the same opportunities as the next man does, if he works and tries. He may fail. Its an unfortunate reality that we need poor people to maintain the security of those that are not poor.

Welfare is not a useful project. Giving money to people who are not capable of earning it themselves brings the overall value of the dollar down. It essentially brings more people into further poverty. What we need to do is let people fend for themselves. Some people will lose everything, but more people will find that their dollar stretches further (in the long run, nothing is going to change overnight).

What is not a reality, however, is that because someone is poor, they need to become criminals. There are many poor people that were in New Orleans that would have never considered looting to get all the cool toys they couldn't get before the tragedy struck. The idea that someone would capitalize on other's misfortune makes me sick. The theft of clothes or food in an emergency like this is necessary for survival. Stealing a TV or DVD player or something is wrong, regardless of the situation.

Little anecdote. I have a friend that got his girlfriend pregnant in high school. We were both sophomores. I was a screw up in high school, as was he. He dropped out so that he could be the father, which was respectable in a place like Albuquerque, where most men would not do that. Now, 6 years later, he is complaining that society has dealt him a raw hand, and that it is not his fault that he can not get a decent paying job.

Plain and simple fact is that life is based off choices and consequences. Had he not gotten his girlfriend pregnant, he would probably be in a similar boat as me. I am not wealthy by any means, but I am comfortable, and I can always get a job since I at least have a high school education. He won't even bother to get his GED, since the government pays for a great deal of his annual salary. He still has the opportunity to succeed on his own, but why bother? The government will always take care of him (at least in his eyes).

That is the mentality that we need to get away from. Anyone that is still reading this can pull one message from this post. Welfare is not a good thing, even to those that are currently on it. It will eventually be the force that causes the dollar to belly up, even if it is WAAAY down the line. We need to stop it sooner, rather than later.
 
corjulo said:
Cooper was brutal with everyone, Republican and Democrat, last week. Seems the gay rich kid from New york (He's a Vanderbilt ) proved his stuff. I too have been impressed. Its good to have a media with a backbone back again.

he's gay? bummer.

(edit) not that there's anything wrong with it, just bummer.
 
Poor or not, they were told a week ago to leave. They had no transportation, so they stayed. Now, men in boats are telling them that they will have no water, no electricity, no services at all for months. These same men are offering them transportation, food, water, and temporary housing. Hell, I'm one of the "fat cats" with beach property and I've volunteered my plane to transport them.

They are refusing to leave. Who's fault will it be when they die? When they get robbed? When they later decide to leave after the relief agancies have gone home?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/05/D8CE8LP82.html
 
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woodstock said:
he's gay? bummer.

(edit) not that there's anything wrong with it, just bummer.


Oft quoted but not confirmed. AFaIK

Yeh, bummer.
 
Alan said:
Poor or not, they were told a week ago to leave. They had no transportation, so they stayed. Now, men in boats are telling them that they will have no water, no electricity, no services at all for months. These same men are offering them transportation, food, water, and temporary housing. Hell, I'm one of the "fat cats" with beach property and I've volunteered my plane to transport them.
Has Lifeline Pilots gotten mission requests for Katrina?

They are refusing to leave. Who's fault will it be when they die? When they get robbed? When they later decide to leave after the relief agencies have gone home?
Maybe when FEMA goes home people can get help without the interference of the department of help prevention. In the rural areas they sent cleanup crews away because they *might* decide to price gouge someday. FEMA won't clean up private property. I'd like to know how they have so many answering phones who are so quick to tell helpers to stay away.

According to the stories, some of those refusing to leave are the robbers. As long as there are people left behind there's a drug market.

As Bruce said a lot of people are going to be very sick. I have CNN and Anderson Cooper on now, They did a water sample check at LSU. Fecal Coliform 20000PPM. Acceptable is 200PPM.

The N.O. cops were telling residents that all of the houses will be bulldozed. Gonna be some more scenes we don't wanna see.
 
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mikea said:
Has Lifeline Pilots gotten mission requests for Katrina?

Maybe when FEMA goes home people can get help without the interference of the department of help prevention. In the rural areas they sent cleanup crews away because they *might* decide to price gouge someday. FEMA won't clean up private property. I'd like to know how they have so many answering phones who are so quick to tell helpers to stay away.

According to the stories, some of those refusing to leave are the robbers. As long as there are people left behind there's a drug market.

As Bruce said a lot of people are going to be very sick. I have CNN and Anderson Cooper on now, They did a water sample check at LSU. Fecal Coliform 20000PPM. Acceptable is 200PPM.

The N.O. cops were telling residents that all of the houses will be bulldozed. Gonna be some more scenes we don't wanna see.
Karen spent a whole day Saturday organizing ten pilots to join AF-GA in going to help in a Atlanta Medical Supply airlift. No commerce down there to supply the weekend. The press has missed the glamour of the So. Mississippi and So. Alabama destruction. No "racial" angles or scandal angles there.

It's been awfully disorganized. FEMA turning away water trucks, etc. Sigh.
 
bbchien said:
Karen spent a whole day Saturday organizing ten pilots to join AF-GA in going to help in a Atlanta Medical Supply airlift. No commerce down there to supply the weekend. The press has missed the glamour of the So. Mississippi and So. Alabama destruction. No "racial" angles or scandal angles there.

It's been awfully disorganized. FEMA turning away water trucks, etc. Sigh.


This is simply NOT true and I am surprised to here you say such a thing. Every single night every single television network has reported from all over the region. I have personal read and seen report after report from Mississippi up to Mobile. But look at a map of population density, New Orleans is it until you get to Mobile. Of course thats going to be the center of coverage and the lede story

The angle is not race, its economic and class. The only people trying to make it about race are the usually suspects on the left and the right. The FEMA water truck story was all over NPR and CBS. AND, lets not forget the governor of Mississippi has repeatedly gone on TV to say how GREAT the federal response has been. He was doing this before he even had a clue what the real situation was.
 
corjulo said:
This is simply NOT true and I am surprised to here you say such a thing. Every single night every single television network has reported from all over the region. I have personal read and seen report after report from Mississippi up to Mobile. But look at a map of population density, New Orleans is it until you get to Mobile. Of course thats going to be the center of coverage and the lede story

The angle is not race, its economic and class. The only people trying to make it about race are the usually suspects on the left and the right. The FEMA water truck story was all over NPR and CBS. AND, lets not forget the governor of Mississippi has repeatedly gone on TV to say how GREAT the federal response has been. He was doing this before he even had a clue what the real situation was.
OK, you asked for it.
I am no longer Chairman of Lifeline. The organization is for now well funded and very active. Good time to quit. But,
We contact numerous governmental agencies. Told "no need at the present time"
We contact numerous private agencies. "We could sure use you".
SO, a great number of PVT PILOTS from all the AF groups, all the independents are down there. Just today finally, the government says, sign up with us.....This is day nine?

Cmon, Dan, wake up. This is disorganization from the department of PREVENTION. You're looking at press reports. We're looking at the situation in the nitty gritty.

To quote you, "the conventional wisdom is never correct" and so it is.
 
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Alan said:
Poor or not, they were told a week ago to leave. They had no transportation, so they stayed. Now, men in boats are telling them that they will have no water, no electricity, no services at all for months. These same men are offering them transportation, food, water, and temporary housing. Hell, I'm one of the "fat cats" with beach property and I've volunteered my plane to transport them.

They are refusing to leave. Who's fault will it be when they die? When they get robbed? When they later decide to leave after the relief agancies have gone home?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/05/D8CE8LP82.html


this is bayou country. Some, very few, can probably survive anywhere.
 
bbchien said:
OK, you asked for it.
I am no longer Chairman of Lifeline. The organization is for now well funded and very active. Good time to quit. But,
We contact numerous governmental agencies. Told "no need at the present time"
We contact numerous private agencies. "We could sure use you".
SO, a great number of PVT PILOTS from all the AF groups, all the independents are down there. Just today finally, the government says, sign up with us.....This is day nine?

Cmon, Dan, wake up. This is disorganization from the department of PREVENTION. You're looking at press reports. We're looking at the situation in the nitty gritty.

To quote you, "the conventional wisdom is never correct" and so it is.

Doc, are you saying the press is NOT reporting the colossal screw up from FEMA on down. We are. and we're getting accused by the regular crowd of just being biased liberal media. But for once we don't care. If we haven't done enough in the rest of the coast that has a lot more to do with limited resources then you might expect. Its also virtually the same story where ever we go. Where don't the press reports match what your seeing? We may miss individual stories, maybe some we shouldn't miss. But the over all tone of the coverage is exactly as you put it...."This is disorganization from the department of PREVENTION."

And if you know of ANY pilots in my State involved in relief flights I can almost guarantee press coverage. Just get me the information and I'll get to the right people.
 
Transcript in the Imus email newsletter:

Imus: "What Happened?"

NBC's Tim Russert:"We don't know but we do know the following. That as this hurricane began to bear down on New Orleans that people understood that there was a very high probability that this was going to be a 3, 4 or 5 category storm and it was going to hit and hit hard. And so an evacuation began. Then come the unanswered questions. Why weren't troops pre-positioned? Why weren't supplies pre-positioned, in a way, in a capacity that could deal with hundreds of thousands of evacuees? The one thing that government is suppose to do, the reason we have a government is to protect its people. And the local, state and federal government has failed miserably in protecting its people. No one can question that. Now we have to find out exactly who did not fulfill their responsibility. The perception is after September 11th we created a department of Homeland Security because we were told its not a matter of if but when there would be another terrorist attack and this time we would be better prepared. There would be command and control, there would be communications and there would be preparation. Guess what? No command and control, no communications, no preparation. The state, local, federals couldn't talk to each other. Nobody was in charge and we've talked to the head of the Hurricane center at Louisiana State University who one year ago, Don did a simulated computer model, tabletop exercise called Hurricane Pam in which they predicted this almost to the letter and he called FEMA and said on Saturday or Sunday you have to have 10 cities setup outside of New Orleans, outside the State. You're going to have hundreds of thousands of evacuees. You have to be able to absorb them or they are gong to die in the streets. And FEMA said to them Americans don't sleep in tents. That is what went wrong and that's what we have to find out. Who's accountable? This notion that we are all too busy now to look forward if we can't look back, we can do both because to ignore what happened in New Orleans is to guarantee it will happen again."

NEWS QUOTE OF THE DAY #2

Imus: "Well Kanye West said on a concert on NBC, that George Bush does not care about black people, which I don't believe is the case but I do believe that neither he nor anyone else cares enough about them, and if you are a black person in New Orleans what else are you supposed to think. I mean, the facts are the facts."

NBC's Tim Russert: "Well I mean... You can't say things like that because there is absolutely no evidence of that and..."

Imus: "The evidence is...."

Tim Russert:"The idea that somehow a federal... the mayor of New Orleans is African American. Okay? The notion that he somehow turned his back on his own people, or the governor, a democratic governor, turned her back on her people or the President... But there was a level of bureau-paralysis, that is inexcusable and we have to find out why. For example when the President went on television and said no one expected the levees to be breached..."

Imus: "Not true."

Tim Russert: "That is just so far from being true, from being so misinformed. Who told him that? Why would he say that? Every computer model, every one, and the one I talked about earlier, Hurricane Pam, FEMA was there, the White House was there, there is a CD that exists that says that if a hurricane level three or more it is going to breach the levee. The levee was breached, it was posted on the New York Times website at 10:00 P.M. Monday night. Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff told me that he did not know until Tuesday afternoon. There were tens of thousands of people at the convention center without food and water and any security. On Thursday, Chertoff and the head of FEMA Michael Brown said that they were not aware of that. Command and control? Communications? Come on. I mean there is nothing disloyal or not being patriotic asking tough questions. It's why we are here. We have to call the government accountable particularly when there are bodies floating in water through the streets of New Orleans."

NEWS QUOTE OF THE DAY #3

Newsweek Magazine's Evan Thomas: "Everything went wrong that could go wrong. The part that interests me now is the fighting between the feds and the state and locals. Something went really wrong there because as far as I can tell for much of last week a bunch of lawyers were arguing with each other on which declaration of emergency, whether to do Marshal Law, whether to federalize the guard. This has not been an administration in the past that worries too much about what the lawyers think. I mean they didn't worry about prisoners rights. It's always been an activist administration. They just do it. But for some reason they didn't do it last week. They dithered. They just twiddled their thumbs and is that because the governor didn't want them to come in? The governor didn't want to federalize the guard? Or is it because this FEMA guy (Mike Brown) is inept? Here is something to pursue, whether Rumsfeld didn't want to have the guards federalized, didn't want to have soldiers coming in and playing policeman and some weird Washington bureaucratic fight where, this is going to sound bureaucratic, but if you federalize the guard I believe the attorney general of the United States is in charge, not the secretary of defense but the attorney general. Maybe Rumsfeld didn't want Gonzalez to be in charge. All of this is sort of arcane bureaucratic stuff but for some stupid government, Washington, bureaucratic reason they just couldn't get it together. They were just paralyzed for at least a couple of days last week."
 
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I have to say, one of the first things I thought when I saw the snafu was "4 years after 911 and this is the best we can do? we are all dead!"
 
Re: Katrina and American society (reality check)

Post Warning: My BS/idget detector exploded today and left a gaping crater 10 miles deep and the resulting hole makes the Grand Canyon look like a small runoff gully.

Rant on:

Ok. So it's over a week after half the coastline got wiped off the face of the Earth before anyone started doing anything serious about it in a semi-organized manner. That's past history. They screwed up. Fact: There's nothing short of a time machine that can fix that problem. This entire country needs to GET OVER IT. Don't deal with it, get over it. There's nothing that can be done about the past anyway. It's done.

I'm sick of all the continously running tv and radio nonsense about finger pointing, accused racism, rich vs poor, blame game, gov't/county/individual responsibility, political posturing, tours, financial profit/loss ratios, new media hype, etc etc etc.

What is wrong with people? Are they stupid? Or just brain damaged?

Supplies are being turned away, people not being allowed to escape a disaster area, help being turned down. It's totally shameful that money and political posturing is given such status in this society that it seems if not actually is more important than life. Priorities are completely screwed up when life is a secondary consideration. I'm ashamed to be in the same country with those idgets.

REALITY CHECK: The emergency is still on. People are still dying from this. Save them! Now! Everyone needs to get with the program and fix the problem. Don't whine about it. Don't worry about who is at fault. Just FIX IT. Forget the money/greed game too, just fix the real problem. Once the problem is fixed, and ONLY AFTER it's completely fixed, THEN the finger pointers can whine and cry all day long if they want. Right now there is a lot of people seriously hurting that need to be scooped up and taken to safety THEN a really big mess that needs to be cleaned up. People first, stuff second, future repeat prevention third, greed and whining fourth. In that order.

I know there are good people out there busting their rear ends around the clock doing everything possible for the people who are trapped there. More power to them. Send more, lots more. They need all the help and support they can get. Anyone that doesn't want to help or support them needs to get out of their way and let them do what they're doing.

Oh yea. New Orleans isn't the center of the Universe. Mississippi got blown off the face of the Earth too.


And BTW: About the whole concept of the news reporters looking disgusted and being insulted by having to actually help some inferior peasant and don't even think about handing over a bottle of evian to someone who has been dehydrated and drinking septic spill gunk for 9 days...All I can say about that is AAIIGGHH!! If one of those idgets were to get within arms reach of me right now, I'd slap them across the room so hard when they come to next week, they'd think they were astronomers. The one standing waist deep in water today on some downtown N.O. street doing another round of the poor peasant victims/blame game got to me. I was actually desperately hoping to see a shark yank him under.

...My two stupid marbles worth on the subject...

Rant off. I'll go away now.
 
On a brighter note I saw a tv reporter yank a FEMA worker away from his task for a quick interview. Several softball questions and then the reporter drops his bomb, "Why did it take FEMA so long to get set up down here?"

I think, watch it buddy, don't fall into the trap. Sure enough, the FEMA worker's response was even better than I had hoped. He looked directly at the reporter and said, "Don't sucker me into your blame game. We're doing a good job here and I'm getting back to work." I felt so proud of that guy.

Funny thing is, this disaster has got to be a newsman's fantasy, there are stories everywhere. That they have to resort to playing up a non-essential story right now is sheer amazing.

Three times I have seen different film crews in boats cruising around. The camera zeros in on several people in the water and the close up pic shows they want aid. All the while the reporter can be heard to tell the driver to not stop, we shouldn't pick up people, or just keep going. Each time the driver made the pick up, much to the consternation of the reporter. One time the reporter, after his initial objections were overruled and he realized he was helpless to stop the pick up, refocused his story to tell of the humanitarian aid they were providing.
 
Alan said:
Poor or not, they were told a week ago to leave. They had no transportation, so they stayed.

Joseph Annaruma Jr. has spent the past two days glued to his mother's television in Arlington Heights, watching coverage of the hurricane recovery effort in New Orleans. He spent the week before that trying to escape the flood-stricken city. And of all the aggravations he has experienced in that time, the one he'd most like to share with you is the reason he and thousands of others like him didn't flee New Orleans ahead of Hurricane Katrina:

"There was no way out."

By the time Annaruma realized a week ago Saturday that he ought to evacuate, it was already too late, he said, even though the storm wouldn't arrive for nearly two more days.

Airline flights were fully booked. No trains were scheduled, no seats to be had on the buses. Annaruma didn't own a car or have a valid driver's license to rent one, if any had been available, which there weren't.

And neither the city of New Orleans nor the state of Louisiana stepped up to provide mass transit or school buses to move people inland.

"I hear that many people in America think that we who were there stayed by choice and almost asked for our fate. They have it dead wrong," Annaruma said.

He concedes that some stayed put of their own volition, but many others joined him in mobbing the Greyhound terminal, desperately trying to get a bus out of town
http://www.suntimes.com/output/brown/cst-nws-brown07.html

Now, men in boats are telling them that they will have no water, no electricity, no services at all for months. These same men are offering them transportation, food, water, and temporary housing. Hell, I'm one of the "fat cats" with beach property and I've volunteered my plane to transport them.

They are refusing to leave. Who's fault will it be when they die? When they get robbed? When they later decide to leave after the relief agencies have gone home?
They had a couple on NPR this morning that said they're finally going. "After a week of this it's no fun."

You've got two groups staying: 1) Criminals intending to steal, deal, loot and burn everywhere 2) home owners staying behind so their homes don't get looted and burned. Watch for the stories of people who were forcibly taken from their homes, only to have their homes cleaned out and burned by the scum that stayed.

The police and National Guard are not going to be able to protect everything everywhere. At some point they'll just have to let it burn. They had a cop who had an accused arsonist in custody and was told to let him go for lack of evidence.

Then we will have the stories about the poor souls who are still there dying from dysentery. They may not mention when their cribs were full of booty.
 
woodstock said:
I have to say, one of the first things I thought when I saw the snafu was "4 years after 911 and this is the best we can do? we are all dead!"

Yup. I'll bet the terrorists are taking notes, "This will be easier than we thought."

FEMA? feh.
 
mikea said:
You've got two groups staying: 1) Criminals intending to steal, deal, loot and burn everywhere 2) home owners staying behind so their homes don't get looted and burned.
Well, in any disaster area you also have a third group of people who I believe far outnumber the two you cite here. I know this because I belong to group 3. That is the group that simply does not wish to be displaced. They have confidence in their own preparations and in their ability to cope with whatever curveballs may be thrown at them in the weeks ahead. Call the unwillingness to evacuate foolish or pig headed or stubborn or just plain stupid; it's there nonetheless. I've been through six hurricanes, including Andrew, and have not evacuated a single time. After Andrew I believe I will evac in the future for anything stronger than a 3, but I cannot be sure of that.

Evac is a huge pain in the derrier. You have hordes of people running out of gas on the side of the road because the gas stations run out of gas. And the interstate hotels fill up. (travel time between Orlando and Atlanta in advance of Jeanne last year was 18 hours rather than the usual 6-7.) And so you have a chance to ride out the storm in your car rather than in a well-stocked home. Go early, you say? How many times are you willing to evac under a false alarm? Last year Ivan had us terribly worried for more than a week, but went elsewhere. We blew off Jeanne in Orlando, but then it did a 270-degree turn and came back and smacked us good. Track prediction is far from certain.

Now, after you evac, you then have to pay the cost of housing etc, and it can be substantial if you don't have close friends or relatives within easy driving distance.

The upshot of all of these factors is that it's very, very easy when staring down the storm to rationalize that leaving does not improve your lot over staying, so you hunker down and deal with it. That emotional response is easy to dismiss from afar, but very difficult to discount when you're the one on the hotseat. Given the situation in Nawlins now, it would probably be easy to leave. But again, it's an easier call to make hypothetically than when you're actually faced with it.
 
corjulo said:
Doc, are you saying the press is NOT reporting the colossal screw up from FEMA on down. We are. and we're getting accused by the regular crowd of just being biased liberal media. But for once we don't care. If we haven't done enough in the rest of the coast that has a lot more to do with limited resources then you might expect. Its also virtually the same story where ever we go. Where don't the press reports match what your seeing? We may miss individual stories, maybe some we shouldn't miss. But the over all tone of the coverage is exactly as you put it...."This is disorganization from the department of PREVENTION."

And if you know of ANY pilots in my State involved in relief flights I can almost guarantee press coverage. Just get me the information and I'll get to the right people.

I said, "the department of HELP prevention" as FEMA may Not have known what the extent of the problem was, or where it was, but apparently everybody from the janitor on up who could get near a phone was authorized to tell whoever was calling that they didn't need their help and if they were on the way to help they should stop.

Smoking gun found by the AP:
WASHINGTON - The government's disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 Homeland Security employees to the region - and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.

Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to "convey a positive image" about the government's response for victims.

Before then, FEMA had positioned smaller rescue and communications teams across the Gulf Coast. But officials acknowledged Tuesday the first department-wide appeal for help came only as the storm raged.

Brown's memo to Chertoff described Katrina as "this near catastrophic event" but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, "Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities."

...

Brown's memo told employees that among their duties, they would be expected to "convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public."

"FEMA response and recovery operations are a top priority of the department and as we know, one of yours," Brown wrote Chertoff. He proposed sending 1,000 Homeland Security Department employees within 48 hours and 2,000 within seven days.

...

Employees required a supervisor's approval and at least 24 hours of disaster training in Maryland, Florida or Georgia. "You must be physically able to work in a disaster area without refrigeration for medications and have the ability to work in the outdoors all day," Brown wrote.

The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. Brown said it was vital to coordinate fire and rescue efforts.

Meanwhile, the airline industry said the government's request for help evacuating storm victims didn't come until late Thursday afternoon. The president of the Air Transport Association, James May, said the Homeland Security Department called then to ask if the group could participate in an airlift for refugees

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/12574946.htm


Firefighters stuck at hotel awaiting orders

Associated Press
Published September 7, 2005


ATLANTA -- Hundreds of firefighters who volunteered to help victims of Hurricane Katrina have instead been playing cards, taking classes on the history of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and lounging at an Atlanta airport hotel for days while they await orders.

"On the news every night you hear [hurricane victims say], `How come everybody forgot us?"' said Joseph Manning, a Pennsylvania firefighter. "We didn't forget. We're stuck in Atlanta drinking beer."

As of Tuesday, some had been waiting for four days.

FEMA official Tony Russell said he is trying to hurry the deployments but wants to make certain they are sent to the right places.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0509070233sep07,1,1981907.story?coll=chi-news-hed
 
woodstock said:
I have to say, one of the first things I thought when I saw the snafu was "4 years after 911 and this is the best we can do? we are all dead!"
That's one of the first things that popped into my head.
 
I went back and read all the posts on POA leading up to the actually storm. Now, as pilot we take the weather a lot more serious then the general public, In fact as early as Saturday there was a real feeling among this board that something major was about to happen. More so then any other storm I can remember. We understood the difference. But could the public

I say this because I think something must be said about the way TV news has turned every storm in last 10 years into a media circus. I'm not talking about post storm coverage. It's the way they cover things before and during a storm that I feel does a public disservice. It seems like they either cry wolf, or worse, kick the wolf in the teeth but expect not to be bitten

...Let go to Storm 10's Dave Weatherback on the scene of storm Dumbass. (insert ominous graphics and canned music)

Judy, this is one dangerous storm, with wind reaching 100 mile an hour, Folk stay inside, you really should have avacualte by now. Judy, I'm having trouble standing so I think we're goint to take cover for now..(camera fogs up) Back to you Judy

Well, thanks Dave, When we come back, can dogs learn to tap dance.....




We don't see serious business like weather professional in their weather centers giving us facts. We see cowboys standing in deadly winds looking like idiots. These guys compete with each other to see who can put themselves in the most dangerous situation. Here's a news flash guys, It doesn't look so bad on a small TV screen. How serious can the public take them when they tell us how dangerous it is...standing in the middle of IT.. Maybe, and I say this as a guy that makes his living in the media, but maybe those TV bone heads should stop making storms entertainment and practice what they preach. Stay INSIDE. Help guide people through the available information, show us the latest data. Close your damn studio and actually evacuate. Your crappy little videos of you getting blown around has NO news value and reinforces a dangerous complacency in the public. Put a damn remote camera outside.

We're pilot. Most of us learn to look at the data and make life and death decisions. What can we expect of a public constantly subjected to televisions news treating storms as reality TV entertainment, every storm, no matter how strong or weak getting the same spiel.


Back to our regularly scheduled programming
 
I almost quite reading because I was thinking you would be better sending this to the media idjuts. Then you mentioned even the Wx Channel reporters standing out in it. You have a point.

Sure enough, one of those Wx Channel guys was standing in the wind. It even looked like the purposely picked the worst side of the building to set up. Then he directed the camera to show the damage to their truck, which he was standing next to. The windows were busted out and the truck dented by flying objects. Anything to get airtime, right? How 'bout a busted skull?

We all know, aviator or not, the tv wx guy is mostly just a clown. Turning down the sound to read the graphs and charts is invaluable. How many folks know what they are looking at other than the pretty green, red, and purple swirling around on the monitor?

Yep, you make a good point. Perhaps in times of danger all broadcasts should be pre-empted by official NOAA or NWS advisories. Just like pilots have UUA, WST, AC, CWA, the public could have something similar.
 
corjulo said:
I went back and read all the posts on POA leading up to the actually storm. Now, as pilot we take the weather a lot more serious then the general public, In fact as early as Saturday there was a real feeling among this board that something major was about to happen. More so then any other storm I can remember. We understood the difference. But could the public

I say this because I think something must be said about the way TV news has turned every storm in last 10 years into a media circus. I'm not talking about post storm coverage. It's the way they cover things before and during a storm that I feel does a public disservice. It seems like they either cry wolf, or worse, kick the wolf in the teeth but expect not to be bitten

...Let go to Storm 10's Dave Weatherback on the scene of storm Dumbass. (insert ominous graphics and canned music)

Judy, this is one dangerous storm, with wind reaching 100 mile an hour, Folk stay inside, you really should have avacualte by now. Judy, I'm having trouble standing so I think we're goint to take cover for now..(camera fogs up) Back to you Judy

Well, thanks Dave, When we come back, can dogs learn to tap dance.....




We don't see serious business like weather professional in their weather centers giving us facts. We see cowboys standing in deadly winds looking like idiots. These guys compete with each other to see who can put themselves in the most dangerous situation. Here's a news flash guys, It doesn't look so bad on a small TV screen. How serious can the public take them when they tell us how dangerous it is...standing in the middle of IT.. Maybe, and I say this as a guy that makes his living in the media, but maybe those TV bone heads should stop making storms entertainment and practice what they preach. Stay INSIDE. Help guide people through the available information, show us the latest data. Close your damn studio and actually evacuate. Your crappy little videos of you getting blown around has NO news value and reinforces a dangerous complacency in the public. Put a damn remote camera outside.

We're pilot. Most of us learn to look at the data and make life and death decisions. What can we expect of a public constantly subjected to televisions news treating storms as reality TV entertainment, every storm, no matter how strong or weak getting the same spiel.


Back to our regularly scheduled programming

Well, normally I'd clip a bunch out of a quote, but I think you make a very valuable point. The TV "newsies" (as a friend who owned a TV station and didn't think too highly of his own news department called them) are entertainment. They are not a serious source of news. They are always doing something to win the battle for eyeballs. And, their coverage of every little weather event that comes along does tend to dull the senses when a major event (like Katrina) comes along. People don't get the message.
 
corjulo said:
<snip>
We don't see serious business like weather professional in their weather centers giving us facts. We see cowboys standing in deadly winds looking like idiots. These guys compete with each other to see who can put themselves in the most dangerous situation. Here's a news flash guys, It doesn't look so bad on a small TV screen. How serious can the public take them when they tell us how dangerous it is...standing in the middle of IT..
<snip>

You know the weather is going to be bad when the guy from the weather channel arrives in your town to report on the conditions.

You know the weather is going to be REALLY bad, when the guy from the weather channel arrives in the NEXT town to report on the conditions in yours! :hairraise:
 
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