June 1, 2019 what will a GNS430W cost?

[SinkorSwim]

I am pretty sure I am going to purchase a GNX375 at OSHKOSH, but I have already seen prices of G430W drop $1,000 in the few days since the announcement.

I figure the bottom will be around $3,000 when you figure what it takes to make a G430W equivalent to the GNX375. That’s if Garmin doesn’t announce a end of service date for the 400/500 series.

 

[GRG55]

Garmin didn't build a slide in replacement for the GNS series. They'll be flying in airplanes for a lot of years to come, because the cost of replacing them is ridiculous, especially given the modest incremental added capability.
The best option for a slide in replacement is an identical used unit.

 

[asicer]

Garmin is also offering a $2k-$4k trade up until June on the GNS480 depending on how much of their new stuff you buy. I'm guessing a little above that would be the bottom of the GNS430W market.

 

[hindsight2020]

Garmin didn't build a slide in replacement for the GNS series. They'll be flying in airplanes for a lot of years to come, because the cost of replacing them is ridiculous, especially given the modest incremental added capability.
The best option for a slide in replacement is an identical used unit.

Bingo. If anything this is great news for me, as I have zero intentions on making capital upgrade expenditures on the avionics front on the certified can. Whatever expenditures I make will be directed towards the EAB acquisition. The continued discounting of the 430W represents a great bargain for me in keeping the unit serviceable until the end of database support, which I estimate will greatly exceed my ownership tenure of the Arrow (10 years+). Add legacy fleet of IFD 440s at that point, and it's a non-issue for me to retain my legacy WAAS /G filing and [legal...Lord knows I can tablet-GPS approach like the best of them in an emergency] GPS approach capability.

The sky isn't falling, only avionics prices, which is great. One man's trash one man's treasure and all that jazz.

 

[flyer770]

What has been the impact of the 175/375 on the larger screen 530Ws? I’d think that they would be less impacted by the new units.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Garmin didn't build a slide in replacement for the GNS series. They'll be flying in airplanes for a lot of years to come, because the cost of replacing them is ridiculous, especially given the modest incremental added capability.
The best option for a slide in replacement is an identical used unit.

Or an Avidyne 440... Those do slide in. Definitely a missed opportunity on Garmin's part.

 

[Katamarino]

Or an Avidyne 440... Those do slide in. Definitely a missed opportunity on Garmin's part.

I replaced my 430W with a 440, took less than an hour. I like it enough that I have now bought a 540! Installation should be as easy as swapping the trays; connectors are the same and can just be switched from one tray to the other.

 

[Unit74]

Only an idiot would do a new install on a GNS today. The only value is slide in for existing owners that have units titsup

 

[N1120A]

The 430W provides a comm radio (not available on 175/375), VOR/ILS (not available on 175/375) and a WAAS GPS with logic that pilots have been training on for nearly 25 years now. Don't discount what familiarity adds.

 

[Jesse Saint]

The 430W provides a comm radio (not available on 175/375), VOR/ILS (not available on 175/375) and a WAAS GPS with logic that pilots have been training on for nearly 25 years now. Don't discount what familiarity adds.

I agree. I don’t think it’s idiotic to install a GNS these days, but for some it would make more sense to go with a more modern box. Take the GPS175 with it’s small screen and add a Nav/com and a second Nav display and you are WAY above the cost of the GNS. Also, if you have a G5 HSI, you get HSI on both GPS and VOR/ILS, where with the 175 + Nav/Com Combo, you can pick one to show on the G5, then will need something like a GI106B for the other, to the tune of $2,000+.

 

[Unit74]

No way.... It adds basically no airframe value at all and will cost just as mucht to do as a GTN installtion wise. I bet we see the GNS series support dropped in the next 2 years?

 

[SinkorSwim]

No way.... It adds basically no airframe value at all and will cost just as mucht to do as a GTN installtion wise. I bet we see the GNS series support dropped in the next 2 years?

I agree.. but don't think it will be within two years, there are way too many part 135 airplanes with GNS systems installed.

June 1 2019 - is right before OSKKOSK announcements.... $4,000 -------------------- after OSKKOSH - $3,000 - thats my bet...

 

[Unit74]

I agree.. but don't think it will be within two years, there are way too many part 135 airplanes with GNS systems installed.

June 1 2019 - is right before OSKKOSK announcements.... $4,000 -------------------- after OSKKOSH - $3,000 - thats my bet...

The clock is ticking... Tic Toc, tic toc.... They just dumped the GNS480 in Jan..... Tic toc, tic toc.........

 

[GRG55]

Wasn't the 480 a UPS Aviation Technology device originally?
Apples and oranges comparing that with the Garmin's own GNS navigator.

There's probably 20 times the number of GNS navigators installed than 480s (the latter was introduced in 2003 and Garmin discontinued it only 5 years later in December, 2008). A very large number of 430s/530s are in airplanes that are now of such an age they will never see another IFR navigator installed if it requires a new tray and rewiring (e.g. GTN), as the cost is just to onerous compared to the value of the airframe and the modest incremental capability over a GNS.

So if indeed Garmin stops supporting such a large constituency, Avidyne will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Clip4]

A prediction. Garmin ending support of GNS is coming in next 5 years.

 

[chemgeek]

A prediction. Garmin ending support of GNS is coming in next 5 years.

Possibly. If this happens there may be a land rush for Avidyne or other slide in replacements if available. No way the flib fleet is gonna spring en masse for a GTN unit plus panel rework.

 

[N1120A]

A prediction. Garmin ending support of GNS is coming in next 5 years.

I doubt it. Garmin makes good money servicing them, not to mention selling subscriptions. I can see them no longer doing the WAAS upgrades, but no reason to stop supporting them.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Wasn't the 480 a UPS Aviation Technology device originally?

Yup. Supposedly, Garmin bought UPS AT specifically because of the 480: It was the first certified WAAS GPS, and Garmin was having trouble getting the W working for the 430 and 530. After they completed the purchase, they got the 430W and 530W going.

There's probably 20 times the number of GNS navigators installed than 480s (the latter was introduced in 2003 and Garmin discontinued it only 5 years later in December, 2008). A very large number of 430s/530s are in airplanes that are now of such an age they will never see another IFR navigator installed if it requires a new tray and rewiring (e.g. GTN), as the cost is just to onerous compared to the value of the airframe and the modest incremental capability over a GNS.

So if indeed Garmin stops supporting such a large constituency, Avidyne will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, not doing a slide-in replacement was a major gaffe on Garmin's part... And probably the only reason Avidyne is still alive.

A prediction. Garmin ending support of GNS is coming in next 5 years.

I doubt it. Garmin makes good money servicing them, not to mention selling subscriptions. I can see them no longer doing the WAAS upgrades, but no reason to stop supporting them.

I can guarantee that there are electronic components inside the GNS series that haven't been available for years. Garmin is likely collecting (via the trade-in deals) as many working 430W and 530W systems as they can to allow them to support those products as long as possible, but when the components run out and you can't make new boards, and you also run out of used boards - Support is over, no matter how much you might want to keep them going.

 

[N1120A]

Yes, not doing a slide-in replacement was a major gaffe on Garmin's part... And probably the only reason Avidyne is still alive.





I can guarantee that there are electronic components inside the GNS series that haven't been available for years. Garmin is likely collecting (via the trade-in deals) as many working 430W and 530W systems as they can to allow them to support those products as long as possible, but when the components run out and you can't make new boards, and you also run out of used boards - Support is over, no matter how much you might want to keep them going.

Not doing the 650/750 as slide-in replacements was idiotic. It doesn't even make Garmin much more money, just the avionics shops.

I don't see why Garmin wouldn't be able to continue making the components for the GNS, and they have a pretty vested interest in supporting them. Then again, they've stopped offering WAAS upgrades for first generation G1000 units, so there is that.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I'm probably keeping my 430, adding a GNX375, dumping my GTX327. Just makes the most sense

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't see why Garmin wouldn't be able to continue making the components for the GNS, and they have a pretty vested interest in supporting them.

Garmin doesn't make the "components". Garmin assembles components into boards, and boards into boxes. We're talking chips, resistors, capacitors, etc...

The electronics world moves MUCH faster than the avionics world. Newer-better-faster all the time... But FAA certification on something as complex as an IFR navigator is glacial. So, often by the time a device from Garmin or the others is certified and shipping, there are already electronic components inside it that are end-of-lifed... So essentially, Garmin has to purchase ALL of the components they'll EVER need for both building new units and repairing existing units right up front, before they ship a single one.* When they run out - That's that.

* OK, so not every component is EOL at the start - But some are. Others will become EOL during the production run and they'll have to stockpile those too... And eventually the parts supply dwindles to the point where they simply can't build any more. Garmin has probably already ceased building any new subsystems for the GNS navigators, and merely has a stockpile. And while they're probably still building all the various bits of the GTNs, they also know pretty much exactly how many more they'll be able to produce before they need to have the next big thing certified and ready.

 

[Flybuddy]

GNS = (Garmin No Service)...I think the predicted demise is a bit premature. There are loads out there and pilots are used to working with them. I don't think the prices will drop that much and as others have stated, it may behoove some to purchase a spare. The used 300XL nav/coms still get reasonable money (around $2500) for an abandoned product. IMO, in a year you'll see about $2800 to $3000 for a regular 430 and about $4000 to $5000 for a waas unit.
Curious...if a manufacturer abandons a product, can someone else pick up the repair business if they have parts?

 

[Unit74]

I doubt it. Garmin makes good money servicing them, not to mention selling subscriptions. I can see them no longer doing the WAAS upgrades, but no reason to stop supporting them.

Not when they do not have parts.....

 

[unsafervguy]

Not when they do not have parts.....

People just don’t get it. Just because there are thousands in service does not mean spares are available. The fact that garmin will not work on certain models of the 430 shows that parts are already starting to be an issue. The death blow is coming when they run out of screens, which is coming I’ve been told, a new install of a 430 is dumb economics. Try to get a 1990 computer fixed, ain’t happening those parts are long gone. That day is rapidly approaching on the 400/500 series.

 

[hindsight2020]

People just don’t get it. Just because there are thousands in service does not mean spares are available. The fact that garmin will not work on certain models of the 430 shows that parts are already starting to be an issue. The death blow is coming when they run out of screens, which is coming I’ve been told, a new install of a 430 is dumb economics. Try to get a 1990 computer fixed, ain’t happening those parts are long gone. That day is rapidly approaching on the 400/500 series.

No we get it. But we're not talking about initial installs. We're talking about avionics fanbois who continue to peddle the idea that if you don't invest in a GTN right now, you're gonna be AOG. That's hyperbolic falsehood and a projection by the fanbois own frustration at constantly taking it up their rear for insisting in being "serial early adopters" of every overpriced doo dad Garmin flashes by their nose.

We're merely telling you the level of used GNS stock out there is gargantuan enough you don't need factory support to reach the end of database support, especially when the price of said unsupported box will drop precipitously precisely because of said loss of support in the first place. This makes the cannibalizing stockpiling and slide-in swap a much better economic proposition than installing a GTN when my GNS is still working fine in the first place.

 

[Unit74]

No we get it. But we're not talking about initial installs. We're talking about avionics fanbois who continue to peddle the idea that if you don't invest in a GTN right now, you're gonna be AOG. That's hyperbolic falsehood and a projection by the fanbois own frustration at constantly taking it up their rear for insisting in being "serial early adopters" of every overpriced doo dad Garmin flashes by their nose.

We're merely telling you the level of used GNS stock out there is gargantuan enough you don't need factory support to reach the end of database support, especially when the price of said unsupported box will drop precipitously precisely because of said loss of support in the first place. This makes the cannibalizing stockpiling and slide-in swap a much better economic proposition than installing a GTN when my GNS is still working fine in the first place.

Tic.... Toc.... Tic.... Toc..... Tic.....

 

[flyingcheesehead]

No we get it. But we're not talking about initial installs. We're talking about avionics fanbois who continue to peddle the idea that if you don't invest in a GTN right now, you're gonna be AOG. That's hyperbolic falsehood and a projection by the fanbois own frustration at constantly taking it up their rear for insisting in being "serial early adopters" of every overpriced doo dad Garmin flashes by their nose.

We're merely telling you the level of used GNS stock out there is gargantuan enough you don't need factory support to reach the end of database support, especially when the price of said unsupported box will drop precipitously precisely because of said loss of support in the first place. This makes the cannibalizing stockpiling and slide-in swap a much better economic proposition than installing a GTN when my GNS is still working fine in the first place.

You're completely missing the point: That is, that having a ton of them in the field does NOT mean Garmin can continue to support them indefinitely, regardless of how much they would like to or how much business sense it would make. If anything, the large number of them in the field means it will be more difficult to continue support long-term with a fixed supply of parts.

No, that doesn't mean you're instantly going to be AOG. But, that does mean that the only choice you'll have if yours fails is to find another one for sale. They're likely to continue to be expensive on the used market, maybe even more so, since those who can't or won't pay the $$$ to upgrade to something else are going to be clamoring for the remaining working ones that show up on the used market.

And nobody is telling you you have to replace your GNS with a GTN. There's no reason to be doing that right now... But there certainly is reason to not do a new GNS install right now. There are far too many better options available, and the install itself is going to be $3K-$5K regardless of what box you choose to install, so it makes no sense to spend that money on something that is pretty much guaranteed to have a shorter service life than the alternatives.

 

[asicer]

If anything, the large number of them in the field means it will be more difficult to continue support long-term with a fixed supply of parts.

That makes me wonder what Garmin does with the GNS480 units that people submit for the trade-up program...

 

[Unit74]

That makes me wonder what Garmin does with the GNS480 units that people submit for the trade-up program...

Repurposed to the boating sector......

 

[BillyBH]

They didn't totally abandon the 480....yet. They just limited Factory Support to operating issues; no more cosmetic support.

 

[Groundpounder]

A buck three 80

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Naw....bout tree fiddy.

 

[GRG55]

Tic.... Toc.... Tic.... Toc..... Tic.....

LOL. The clock started ticking the day Garmin announced it would no longer manufacture them.
You must live an awful boring life if you've been counting the seconds all the years since.

Sliding in a used replacement GNS is a perfectly good alternative to upgrading. There's no shortage of them on the used market.

Garmin will keep selling the database updates as long as there's enough people buying them. I'd be surprised if the new touchscreen GTN installed base ever comes close to the total installations of GNS series navigators.

 

[Unit74]

LOL. The clock started ticking the day Garmin announced it would no longer manufacture them.
You must live an awful boring life if you've been counting the seconds all the years since.

Sliding in a used replacement GNS is a perfectly good alternative to upgrading. There's no shortage of them on the used market.

Garmin will keep selling the database updates as long as there's enough people buying them. I'd be surprised if the new touchscreen GTN installed base ever comes close to the total installations of GNS series navigators.

Yes. Completely boring. In fact, I have nothing else to do but post on the interwebz. My next stop is the Steam forum where we will talk about the types of steam and if it’s really a solid, liquid or gas.... it’s fascinating stuff

 

[Ravioli]

Yup. Supposedly, Garmin bought UPS AT specifically because of the 480: It was the first certified WAAS GPS, and Garmin was having trouble getting the W working for the 430 and 530. After they completed the purchase, they got the 430W and 530W going.

This is the story I remember.