Joining an airway on departure….

P

pstan

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
168
Display Name
Display name:
Stan
I was looking at KGON Groton New London in Connecticut. Lets say your cleared route is "V308 HTO", which is in a SW direction from the GON vor. The GON Vor is pretty well on the field I think, maybe just slightly west of the runways. If you take off of the SE runway, 16 I think it is, what is the AIM recommended procedure to join the airway?

Is it a right turn after departure, and take up a 45 degree intercept?

Are you expected to proceed back to the GON for first?

A reference would be very helpful

thanks
 
pstan said:
I was looking at KGON Groton New London in Connecticut. Lets say your cleared route is "V308 HTO", which is in a SW direction from the GON vor. The GON Vor is pretty well on the field I think, maybe just slightly west of the runways. If you take off of the SE runway, 16 I think it is, what is the AIM recommended procedure to join the airway?

Is it a right turn after departure, and take up a 45 degree intercept?

Are you expected to proceed back to the GON for first?

A reference would be very helpful

thanks
Click to expand...

Your departure clearance will likely include an initial heading and instructions to join V308. No need to backtrack at all.
 
Departing to the south at Salisbury, they'll tell you to fly a heading to intercept V1 so you don't have to head to the VOR first. Of course, it all depends what your clearance really is and what instructions they give you when you're released/cleared for takeoff.

At my home strip, we get sent to the CSN VOR no matter what direction we want to go.
(Every once in a blue moon I get sent to MOL). Of course once you're in Radar contact you can usually get cleared direct somewhere in the direction you want to go (usually unprompted).

27K: Potomac Approach, Navion 5327K off Culpepper 1000 climbing 3000.
PCT: Navion 5327K Radar Contact, Climb and Maintain 6000, Proceed direct Lynchburg.
 
Yes I see if you are given an initial heading and told to join the airway that would be very straight forward.

What if all you were given was "right turn on departure" for southeast runway takeoff? I've had that sort of instruction before. Remember my clearance was "V308 HTO...", and not direct to a waypoint. Would you use that 45 degree intercept, or is there a more preferred way?
 
Usually a route will include how to get to the airway or the initial point that one is to use for joining the airway. Since it has to be something an /U airplane can navigate to, it is usually a nearby navaid or radial. A departure clearance will normally include an initial heading to fly for either radar vectors or to intercept a radial. Since there is radar service available, I would expect radar vectors to join the airway. If you became nordo, any reasonable intercept would be expected.
 
pstan said:
Yes I see if you are given an initial heading and told to join the airway that would be very straight forward.

What if all you were given was "right turn on departure" for southeast runway takeoff? I've had that sort of instruction before. Remember my clearance was "V308 HTO...", and not direct to a waypoint. Would you use that 45 degree intercept, or is there a more preferred way?
Click to expand...

Is there no ODP for the airport?
 
pstan said:
Yes I see if you are given an initial heading and told to join the airway that would be very straight forward.

What if all you were given was "right turn on departure" for southeast runway takeoff? I've had that sort of instruction before. Remember my clearance was "V308 HTO...", and not direct to a waypoint. Would you use that 45 degree intercept, or is there a more preferred way?
Click to expand...

That would make a call for clarification almost a necessity. There are no secret code words that you must memorize...ask and ye shall receive.

Bob Gardner
 
Hang on - if you're departing south east, and your course is to the SW, then a right turn makes sense. Turn right, intercept the airway, carry on.

If there's no ODP (and at GON you're so close to the coastline that once you climb to the normal 1000 AGL before turning you are clear terrain wise), you'd make the right turn as you desired for the intercept.

Me? If tower didn't assign a heading... I'd take off on 16, then when reaching 1000' I'd turn right to 250 (hey a perfect 90 degree right turn AND a 30 degree intercept) and intercept the airway.
 
Usually the clearance is "radar vectors to join V308, HTO as filed." If not, Providence should give you a radar vector to join the airway on initial contact.
 
I only remember the intercept out of SBY because I sat there for a minute trying to figure out how to enter it in the 480. I finally decided to put KSBY SBY V16 CCV in and just punch fly leg on the second leg before takeoff. To this day I don't know any better way of doing it with the GPS. Of course, I could have 112.2 in the VOR and dialed up 218 on the course arrow and flew towards the needle, but that seems so low tech :)
 
One way to do it on GPS is to have the first waypoint on the airway be the first waypoint in your plan, and then use OBS mode to set the inbound course to that waypoint. For instance... from KSBY, to join V1 to the northeast, make ATR the first waypoint, and set the OBS course to 036.
 
TMetzinger said:
Me? If tower didn't assign a heading... I'd take off on 16, then when reaching 1000' I'd turn right to 250 (hey a perfect 90 degree right turn AND a 30 degree intercept) and intercept the airway.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. The clearance was to an airway, not a waypint. Nothing in the AIM about intecepting courses, 45 degrees or 30 degrees?

When I've flown there, you're with tower for a couple of minutes, so you may have completed the turn to intercept heading before talking to approach.
 
flyingron said:
I only remember the intercept out of SBY because I sat there for a minute trying to figure out how to enter it in the 480. I finally decided to put KSBY SBY V16 CCV in and just punch fly leg on the second leg before takeoff. To this day I don't know any better way of doing it with the GPS. Of course, I could have 112.2 in the VOR and dialed up 218 on the course arrow and flew towards the needle, but that seems so low tech :)
Click to expand...

The best way I have found is to use the direct-to dialog. Assuming your flightplan is KGON HTO ...; HTO will already be the active waypoint when you press direct-to, use the cursor to move to the CRS field and dial in 219 for the value, press enter, enter. I find it funny how they hide this stuff in plain sight.
 
flyingron said:
I only remember the intercept out of SBY because I sat there for a minute trying to figure out how to enter it in the 480. I finally decided to put KSBY SBY V16 CCV in and just punch fly leg on the second leg before takeoff. To this day I don't know any better way of doing it with the GPS. Of course, I could have 112.2 in the VOR and dialed up 218 on the course arrow and flew towards the needle, but that seems so low tech :)
Click to expand...

That would be my preferred method as well. The FMS in one of the airplanes I fly makes it real easy to do this. You make "SBY" the FROM waypoint and the next fix, "MAGGO" the TO waypoint. The Garmin 400/500 series also make it pretty easy by allowing you to "activate leg" between two points.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • fms.png
    fms.png
    53.4 KB · Views: 168
Last edited:
John Collins said:
The best way I have found is to use the direct-to dialog. Assuming your flightplan is KGON HTO ...; HTO will already be the active waypoint when you press direct-to, use the cursor to move to the CRS field and dial in 219 for the value, press enter, enter. I find it funny how they hide this stuff in plain sight.
Click to expand...

direct to hto 219 course.jpg

ready to turn right tointercept course.jpg
 
To answer the original question, the AIM is silent on this issue. So, if you're not sure what to do in this case, follow 14 CFR 91.123 and ask ATC at once.
 
TMetzinger said:
If there's no ODP (and at GON you're so close to the coastline that once you climb to the normal 1000 AGL before turning you are clear terrain wise), you'd make the right turn as you desired for the intercept.
Click to expand...

1000 AGL? Standard minimum turning altitude for IFR with no ODP is 400 AGL, isn't it?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
1000 AGL? Standard minimum turning altitude for IFR with no ODP is 400 AGL, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Indeed it is unless the diverse departure area has a note restricting the turn to a higher AFE than 400 feet.

Same for an ODP that simply says (for example) "Climbing left turn to intercept PDQ 090 radial....etc."
 
Thanks Captain Ron for your answer re the AIM being silent. Somewhere in the back of my head I thought there was a reference somewhere somehow for some reason stating that a 45 degree intercept angle is to be used.
Re 1000 feet, coincidence but I think GON noise abatement asks for that, on a sign as you taxi to the runway threshhold. Weather permitting, an aircraft may be even further from the cleared route if one was to fly that.

Is there ever a problem with an aircraft flying the local noise abatement procedure only to find that atc is somewhat upset that their instruction/clearance was not completely complied with? After all, the noise procedure may be completely different that and "runway heading" clearance.
 
pstan said:
Is there ever a problem with an aircraft flying the local noise abatement procedure only to find that atc is somewhat upset that their instruction/clearance was not completely complied with? After all, the noise procedure may be completely different that and "runway heading" clearance.
Click to expand...
Unless the noise abatement procedure is pretty extreme, I can't imagine it getting outside the airspace ATC has protected at a nontowered airport.
 
Any different for a towered airport, eg KGON as in this example?
 
pstan said:
Is there ever a problem with an aircraft flying the local noise abatement procedure only to find that atc is somewhat upset that their instruction/clearance was not completely complied with? After all, the noise procedure may be completely different that and "runway heading" clearance.
Click to expand...

Noise abatement procedures NEVER supersede ATC instructions. If the noise abatement procedure says to turn right 30 degrees after takeoff until reaching xxx altitude and ATC clears you for takeoff with a "fly runway heading" instruction, you'd best fly runway heading.

Taken to the extreme - The noise abatement procedure where my club is based is to use one of the two longer runways with all operations north of the airport (ie takeoff 3 or 36, land 21 or 18). If ATC clears me to land on 32, should I land on 21 instead because of the noise abatement procedure? Obviously not.
 
I made the mistake (once) of filing KOLM OLM Vxxx. Got exactly that, had to return to the field (OLM is on the field) and then do almost another 180 to join the V airway. From then on, KOLM Vxxx ... Get the Yelm 2 departure, then radar vectors to the V airway. Life is easy if you let it be.
 
iASCIIart, the clearance was to "join Vxxxx", not to fly a specific heading or to land on a specific runway.
 
pstan said:
Any different for a towered airport, eg KGON as in this example?
Click to expand...
If it's a tower controlled airport, then tower and the TRACON should long ago have coordinated the noise abatement procedures and it shouldn't be any surprise to TRACON when you do it. If you have any doubt about that, ask tower before you roll.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top