Job help

Tristar

Tristar

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Tristar
So, I need a little advice.

I graduate on May 9th with a Bachelors in Aviation Sciences. My plans are to move to nebraska and Flight instruct. Although I have kept in contact with a Flight center as to my progress, nothing is for sure. I'm willing to commute (within reason) to another airport outside Lincoln if the opportunity arises. I have a problem however that I am not a flight instructor yet and live 6 hours away and thus it is difficult to have face to face contact. I will admit that I'm a little shy but its more of unsure of what to say to an employer who has never met me nor advertised for a CFI. So, in conclusion, how do you confront an employer with this situation?
 
1. Get the CFI
2. Take a weekend road trip and hand out resumes. Visit every airport within whatever commuting distance works for you.

Other than that...

I think face to face is your best bet.
 
What Greg said. You need your CFI first. Then, you need to show people your winning smile and personality so that they'll want to hire you. Even with no CFIing experience, you should be able to get a job. Face to face contact is what gets you a job, since that's when you convince the employer that you're worth hiring. That's how I've talked myself into pretty much every job I've had.

Be confident and believe what you're saying (if you don't, how is anyone else supposed to?), and don't be cocky (that should be a lot easier for you than for me). You'll be fine.
 
Is there a specific reason you've chosen Nebraska? I would think there wouldn't be a lot of potential since there's not a lot of population...


Trapper John
 
Hi!

You're in the same boat as many students that are graduating next month. Not quite ready for the job just yet, but want to get something lined up. I, too, am a little shy in that I have a hard time cold-calling people for jobs. If I were in your shoes, here's what I would do:

1. Google FBO's, flight schools, etc in a certain radius of where you want to work and compile a list of these schools and telephone numbers. AF/D's are a good source for this information too.

2. Look for a few flight schools that are slightly out of the geographic range of where you are willing to go. Call them and practice inquiring about CFI jobs. Ask to speak to the chief pilot or chief instructor. You'll probably have to leave a message for that person and hopefully they call back! Tell the chief you anticipate getting your CFI on such and such date and would like to know more about obtaining a position instructing. This should get the conversation rolling along.

Another thing you could do is start by talking to people at the places you are most familiar. Talk to someone at your current school, or fllight schools you've attended in the past. This will help increase your confidence!

3. Figure out a date when you will be in the area of the schools you are most interested in.

4. Once you've called a few places, call the places you are most interesting in from #1 above. You should (hopefully!) have a bit more self-confidence when calling. Start the conversation out as you did with the others. See where the conversation goes. I would leave the conversation with something like "I will be in the area during the week of whatever. Can we schedule a time to get together and meet in person?"

5. Once you have that date scheduled, call a few days ahead and confirm.

6. Prior to the meeting, write down a few things you want to talk about. What got you into aviation, what makes you a good instructor, what makes you different from the rest, etc. Typical job interview type stuff here. I think they call these "Selling points."

7. During the meeting, have your logbook, certificates, medical, etc available. Bring a few references as well (those that can account for your flying abilities and those that can account for your work ethic.) Bring up some of those things that you wrote down in #6. Act confident even though you may be trembling inside!

Selling yourself is definitely a skill. And like any other skill, it gets better with time and practice! :D

And CONGRATULATIONS on the degree and becoming a CFI. :D:D
 
Make up a good resume as well. You have to assume that no one will look past the first page, so all the information they need will have to be there. But it should look good enough to catch their attention.

And of course, don't get discouraged if it doesn't work at first. It's not a good time in any industry right now, so expect at least a few people to say they aren't hiring.

And what she said (all of it). Congrats on your achievements, you have reason to be proud.
 
Focus on the CFI--you need that first.....
 
Excellent advice from Greg & Heather. I'll just add a little as food for thought. I'm not sure what you're looking for, or how most flight schools are structured, or whether the following is even an option. But maybe it's worth thinking about.

If worse comes to worse, be prepared with some alternatives to full-time instructing. For instance, keep in mind something like having a day job that pays the bills, and instructing on an as-needed basis. For instance - you could get a fulltime job with regular hours (take a look @ state jobs, generally very stable and predictable in terms of when you need to be around), and then do a few hours of instructing in the evenings on an as-needed basis. You don't even necessarily have to confine yourself to one school with that (although that might be a condition).

So, maybe when you start getting in touch with these places, if they're not interested in some kind of regular arrangement, maybe you could ask if they'd be interested in alternatives. Perhaps dealing with students who could only fly on weekdays after around 5 (they exist, because I was one of 'em)?

Anyway, just a thought.

Good luck with the job search, hope it goes well.

And, definitely have a good resume put together. Good meaning concise.
 
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jesse said:
Focus on the CFI--you need that first.....
Click to expand...
What he said. Don't get sidetracked before you complete the requirements for the job.

Once that's done, you can sell yourself. Selling what you don't yet have is rather difficult and most any school putting time into someone at that point isn't likely one you'd want to be working for.

Then, once I had it... I was calling and visiting everyone I could lay eyes on or get a contact for. Up until I had the ticket, I thought I was going to be working for that school. That proved to be false. I started looking and although I had a couple bumps, it has worked out in the end. More than anything, I've gotten the experience over the last year to better market myself to most any school at this point. I didn't expect to be where I am now, a year later and some 650 hours of dual given.
 
Dress for success. Something conservative. Definitely NOT business casual. A suit if you have it. Be confident in what you know. You were a good student, you'll be a great teacher. YOU KNOW THIS.
Knocking on doors is tough but you have to do it. It's a good time to go looking. Schools that lost instructors over the winter will be stocking up. You might only ever make money if you're flying so plan on something else to keep you in food and rent. Most instructors I knew had more than one gig.
 
If you want to be teaching... and, even if you don't, I think you've got the aptitude to be one heck of a CFI... focus first on your CFI.
Then, consider picking a specialty - primary training, flight reviews, IPCs, weather flying, whatever. I'd love to have someone to go to for a BFR who specializes in BFRs (i.e., reminding me of everything I've forgotten, teaching me what's changed since my last BFR, and helping me go beyond my private pilot/current abilities).
Remember, you don't need an "employer" to be successful; you can make your own success. (And, from what I've seen on this board, you're more than capable of making your own name.)
 
Tristar said:
So, I need a little advice.

I graduate on May 9th with a Bachelors in Aviation Sciences. My plans are to move to nebraska and Flight instruct. Although I have kept in contact with a Flight center as to my progress, nothing is for sure. I'm willing to commute (within reason) to another airport outside Lincoln if the opportunity arises. I have a problem however that I am not a flight instructor yet and live 6 hours away and thus it is difficult to have face to face contact. I will admit that I'm a little shy but its more of unsure of what to say to an employer who has never met me nor advertised for a CFI. So, in conclusion, how do you confront an employer with this situation?
Click to expand...

You contact them openly and introduce yourself and what you can provide them and what you want from them and spell out to them the time line you are looking at. Straight forward, honest and aware. Three things I always look for when people are sending me resumes.
 
T,
Talk to Tony. I can think of no one better to clue you in to getting started and meeting people. He's not a bad reference either, when he's off the bottle at least.

Just kidding about the "bottle". He was fully weened several years ago.

M
 
Tristan,

Rather than just re-iterating the good advice given here so far, I'm going to add one more thing: Networking.

Don't just approach flight schools, get involved in the aviation community around Lincoln once you get up there. Go to different fly-ins (even if you have to drive), find a local CAF wing or EAA chapter, go to the local FAASTeam Safety Meetings and introduce yourself to people. Dress to impress (as was said above, suits would be great for a Safety meeting - they exude professionalism, which is what people want out of a potential employee in any industry) and bring business cards - you can get these printed up for cheap or free here. That always leaves a good impression.

Now, that might not land you an instructing job right away - chief instructors don't necessarily have time to hang out at a local fly-in - but as you know from hanging out here, aviation is a pretty tight-knit community. People know people, and if you get to know the people who know people, that can put you in touch with the right people to not only get an instructing job, but to get you bigger and better opportunities later on.

So, get out there and start building a name and buzz for yourself around the community. That way, when a chief instructor tells one of their friends in casual conversation that they wish they could find a good CFI, that friend can say, "You know, I met a young CFI at ____ last week. She was very enthusiastic, very well put-together, and obviously has a passion for aviation since she was at ____. Let me find her card and I'll give you her info."

A bit optimistic? Sure - but hey, that's how some opportunities have come my way in the past. :)

Good luck!
 
wby0nder said:
T,
Talk to Tony. I can think of no one better to clue you in to getting started and meeting people. He's not a bad reference either, when he's off the bottle at least.

Just kidding about the "bottle". He was fully weened several years ago.

M
Click to expand...

I've only gotten one job that I applied for, as far as I can remember. That was my co-op at Rockwell Collins. Otherwise I started working for my dad at 12 or 13, then once I got my CFI I basically went over to the FBO and said 'hey how about I do a ground school'. then he said 'sure!' I was already checked out in the Archer there which apparently was enough to start instructing in it. At Hap's I walked in to rent and as soon as the CFI working there found out I was a CFI he basically hired me, whether I wanted to work there or not. They didnt even ask to see my certificates for about 6 months. And of course the job I have now is only because Cessna withdrew their offers and forwarded my resume across town. Then I gave the worst interview of my life, and they hired me. unbelievable.

So anyway tristan, I think you're doing all you can right now. get the CFI finished and get to Lincoln, then start walking around the airports and getting to know people. hang around, meet as many pilots as you can. that sort of thing. the work will come.
 
Tristar said:
So, I need a little advice.

I graduate on May 9th with a Bachelors in Aviation Sciences. My plans are to move to nebraska and Flight instruct. Although I have kept in contact with a Flight center as to my progress, nothing is for sure. I'm willing to commute (within reason) to another airport outside Lincoln if the opportunity arises. I have a problem however that I am not a flight instructor yet and live 6 hours away and thus it is difficult to have face to face contact. I will admit that I'm a little shy but its more of unsure of what to say to an employer who has never met me nor advertised for a CFI. So, in conclusion, how do you confront an employer with this situation?
Click to expand...

Tristan .. if I can be any help in the Lincoln area, such as being a
reference .. I'd be happy to. I know the CFI at Crete will be
retiring at some point. They have a 150, a Cherokee 180 and
an Arrow. You could talk to Pat about doing some instructing out
of there.

RT
 
Tristan, you have already received a ton of good advice. I'll add something about the networking, though. If you find that you need to take another job in order to pay the bills, try to get one at the airport or in some way involved with aviation. That way you can keep your face in front of people in the business.
 
All great advice, the resume, networking, and face time has always paid off for me. I guess I am currently briefly retired but I plan on putting all of these to work for me again as soon as I quit messing around with gliders everyday. Good luck in Nebraska and Congrats in advance on the CFI practical test!
 
A friend in Dallas is on the street. He's an extremely capable guy with a great resume of educational background and job success, but in this market jobs are obviously scarce. He recently read something about how jobs are actually found. The results were that less than 2% of hires are made from submitted resumes, the rest are through personal contact or referral. According to their research, some huge percentage of jobs result from fewer than 20 people you already know and who help shill you in.

At this point I think the interviews are more about finding the right fit (for them and for you) rather than flying-teaching skills. The books about young people looking for jobs (as well as many years' experience watching it happen) have led me to conclude that young'uns get too wrapped up in the importance of "product knowledge" (as you demonstrated in your write-up about your first CFI oral) and too little on the relationship/people side of the business. If you come across a good social styles book (Larry Wilson or other reputable author) spend some time reviewing that side of the picture in addition to being a walking-talking pneumonic reciter.

The best advice on almost any people subject is to put yourself on the other side of the table and try to determine what they want out of the deal. When I'm being interviewed for a consulting job or interim CEO (turnaround) position, my interview technique starts with the following "In thinking about our meeting today, I tried to determine what I'd want to know if our situations were reversed and I were interviewing someone like me for this position. I will have a list of all the hard questions I can think of, and read them aloud for the interviewer. In your case the list of questions that I provide would would include:

1. She just graduated from school and got her CFI last week. Do we really want a newbie in this job? How much "real" teaching experience can she possibly have?

2. Business is in the dumper right now. Can she bring anything that would help us get more students?

3. Some of these new kids don't really understand what hard work is all about. How can I know that she "gets it" and is willing to do what it takes to succeed and help us grow our business?

4. What are her strong points that I should know about that don't really show up on a resume?

5. What are her weaknesses that I need to know about if I hire her?

6. Who can I talk to that can give me a good idea of her capabilities, attitude and ability to contribute to my operation?

7. This is a small shop. How flexible is she, and what else besides teaching can she do that will help us succeed?

8. Can we count on her to stick around, or is she just using this job as a stepping-stone for the regionals? like the last 10 before her?

9. We don't have many female students. How good is she with working with the guys?

10. Whatever else you can think of, probably something about the money.









tonycondon said:
I've only gotten one job that I applied for, as far as I can remember. That was my co-op at Rockwell Collins. Otherwise I started working for my dad at 12 or 13, then once I got my CFI I basically went over to the FBO and said 'hey how about I do a ground school'. then he said 'sure!' I was already checked out in the Archer there which apparently was enough to start instructing in it. At Hap's I walked in to rent and as soon as the CFI working there found out I was a CFI he basically hired me, whether I wanted to work there or not. They didnt even ask to see my certificates for about 6 months. And of course the job I have now is only because Cessna withdrew their offers and forwarded my resume across town. Then I gave the worst interview of my life, and they hired me. unbelievable.

So anyway tristan, I think you're doing all you can right now. get the CFI finished and get to Lincoln, then start walking around the airports and getting to know people. hang around, meet as many pilots as you can. that sort of thing. the work will come.
Click to expand...
 
Tristan,
Just a couple of things to add to what's already been said.

As far as networking goes, don't just go to the events and listen passively. Interact with the speaker, asking questions when appropriate. Talk with the speaker and other attendees, both before and after the event.

As far as things you're uniquely qualified for, stress your size and gender. Really. Your size means that you can fly with the larger folks and not have to worry (as much) about W&B. And any flight school worth the name would love to get more female students in the door, and they may be more comfortable with a female instructor. Also, be active with things like the 99's, because many of them may require FRs, and would be likely to go with a fellow member.

Talk with the local FSDO about what's involved with becoming a FAASTeam member. That's a good way to get to know a bunch of people in the industry in the area.

And congrats on that CFI ticket you're about to get! :)
 
Print out a ton of resumes. On your drive home and everywhere else you go stop at every airport and see if there are any positions available.

This is aviation so don't get too attached to living one area too long. You will get burned out on commuting really fast. It just kills your quality of life.
 
Everskyward said:
Tristan, you have already received a ton of good advice. I'll add something about the networking, though. If you find that you need to take another job in order to pay the bills, try to get one at the airport or in some way involved with aviation. That way you can keep your face in front of people in the business.
Click to expand...


Very true, and you can also try to round up your own students as well. One lesson to learn best when young, never rely on any single one else to make a living. Jobs suck, multiple clients is a much better way. Join a flying club where you can have instructor privileges. Remember, jobs suck, set yourself up, you're a smart girl, you can get it done.
 
I thought this was what CFI's did to pay the bills and advertise their services at the same time...
 

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Cap'n Jack said:
I thought this was what CFI's did to pay the bills and advertise their services at the same time...
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Hehe... I always got a kick out of those.

Unfortunately, in this case, "CFI" stands for "Contract Freighters, Inc." They were out of Joplin, MO but got bought out by Con-Way a couple years ago, so don't expect those CFI trailers to be around in another 8 years.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hehe... I always got a kick out of those.

Unfortunately, in this case, "CFI" stands for "Contract Freighters, Inc." They were out of Joplin, MO but got bought out by Con-Way a couple years ago, so don't expect those CFI trailers to be around in another 8 years.
Click to expand...

That explains the two names- some have the name you mention. Others have "Conway Freight International" painted on them (as that one did).
 
Wayne hit a fw key ones on the head.

As you're finishing up your CFI, network outside aviation and find some potential students who will commit to working with only you. Don't be shy about it. Whenever anyone at a networking opportunity expresses any interest in flying, explain the cost and "commitment" for a part 91 school (assuming you edn up at a part 91 school) and say "I have a degree in aviation and I am finishing up my CFI. To help me secure the CFI job, I'd like to show up with a ready group of students. If you are serious about starting, I will call you up when I start and I only ask you take at least two lessons. . . "

Rehearse that speech until is rolls off your tongue easily.

WHen you get to your new home, you will need a doctor, dentist, bank account, etc etc; all good candidates/places and you have a reason to talk to them - they will ask "what brings you to NE?". Also, (IIRC) since you did not go to an "aviation school" find out if there is a group of local alum.

If you have a group of ready students in your back pocket you will be snatched up like a $20 on the sidewalk.

Good luck.

Edit - more thoughts. The "sell" on aviation may take a few meetings - don't look on the networking opps as only for the students. Treat those meetings as key to your future success in many future endevors.
 
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