Jabiru, Good, Bad, Ugly.

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bluesideup

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bluesideup
Hi everyone.
Does anyone have actual facts, hands on experience, about the J250 Vs J230, Engine, SBs, and other?
I am aware of most / all the bad Internet articles, I would like to hear something from the IAs, Owners, or CFIs that had a direct experience.
Thank you.
 
I've had my J230 for 8 years. No issues other than the same stuff with Lycomings I had before. Not sure what you're real question is
 
J-Bird engines got a bad rap for allegedly overheating.
In most cases, it was improper installation of cooling ducts on homebuilts.
I've had no issues on the J-Birds and Lightnings I've flown.
 
Hi everyone.
Thank you for the feedback.
Some things that most people seem to agree with, and I would not expect, are 1000Hr mandatory Head work, 25hr head bolts check, not useful in days 0ver 90F?...
 
Shepherd said:
J-Bird engines got a bad rap for allegedly overheating.
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Some of the rap is deserved...

My experience is with a factory built LSA Cub with a 3300 engine. It has great power and runs smooth but it suffers from high oil temperature and high oil consumption. My research leads me to believe that there were cylinder distortion and ring sticking problems that would cause a lot of blowby, heating the oil and driving oil consumption up. We have a spare engine with the newer parts in it but I haven’t had the heart to pull the plug on an otherwise good running engine yet.

There are lots of service bulletins out for the older engines. In my opinion, they all need to be complied with in the timeframes listed. If they aren’t, I would get them done as soon as I took ownership. Reading through the service bulletins and seeing the constantly updated/changing parts leads me to believe that this was an engine that was released for production before development was really finished.

All that said, I think these engines are one of the cheapest aircraft engines to operate and maintain.
 
bluesideup said:
Hi everyone.
Thank you for the feedback.
Some things that most people seem to agree with, and I would not expect, are 1000Hr mandatory Head work, 25hr head bolts check, not useful in days 0ver 90F?...
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge those checks are not mandatory but I think you’d be a fool not to do them.

The heads WILL leak if you don’t keep them properly torqued.
 
We really wanted a used Kitfox that already had a Jabiru 2200 installed.
Since I could not find any positive long term reports, I posted in the Jabiru forum if anybody ever made to to TBO without significant repairs other than the scheduled maintenance, including the mandatory top overhaul at 1,000 hours. I came up empty handed: http://www.jabiruownersgroup.org/viewtopic.php?t=859

Note, that this is a Jabiru fan forum. For comparison, the Rotax forum is full of reports of engines which made it way beyond TBO without even ever being opened.

People seem to be very happy with Jabiru engines - until they fail. We therefore walked away from the Kitfox, despite of their claims that they have no finally fixed all issues, what seems to be only partially true.

When we started building our Zenith, I became interested in Jabiru again and the US importer was very friendly and convincing. I then however learned that they just introduced a new engine generation AND moved the production from an external supplier to in house. Considering their history, we again decided against the Jabiru.

Edited for clarification
 
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So I've been looking into buying an LSA as well and considering Jabiru among others. Through my months of research, I've come across the same rumblings regarding the engines/reliability, and that is admittedly hard to dismiss. Also heard some positive things about the newer 3300 line of engines. I really haven't heard anything bad about the actual airframes. People seem to really like the performance and flying characteristics of the J230.

One thing that also surprised me was their U.S. safety record. I was watching this video from AVweb and if their data is to be believed, the Jabirus have one of the lower accidents rates and zero fatalities in U.S. service. Maybe they're just really easy to fly as a glider when the engine goes out?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lsa+accidents The discussion on accident rates amongst LSA manufactures runs from around 4:00 to 4:30.

Sorry, I don't have any real world experience to add, but I've been researching LSAs quite a bit and also interested in people's view on this topic, specially the Jabiru factory-built LSAs.
 
Boiler03 said:
One thing that also surprised me was their U.S. safety record. I was watching this video from AVweb and if their data is to be believed, the Jabirus have one of the lower accidents rates and zero fatalities in U.S. service. Maybe they're just really easy to fly as a glider when the engine goes out?
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There's a relatively low fatality rate after mechanical failures of aircraft engines.

There has been one fatality in a LSA, CEN13LA062, a 2008 Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC model J250-SP. It happened in 2012. There also has been one fatality in an EAB Jabiru, ERA10LA203, a Jabiru J250 in 2010. There have also been 14 fatal accidents in other Jabiru-powered EAB aircraft.

Ron Wanttaja
 
IMHO, if you fitted the Jabiru with a Rotax engine you’d have the best of both worlds. I Like the Jabbie and they are exptremely popular in my neck of the woods (South Africa) but there are lots of people who’ve had to do forced lobs in them due to engine issues. A lot of engines here have been modified in some or other way which makes me nervous.
That’s why I went for the Rotax powered Sling 4...
 
Mike Blackburn said:
IMHO, if you fitted the Jabiru with a Rotax engine you’d have the best of both worlds. I Like the Jabbie and they are exptremely popular in my neck of the woods (South Africa) but there are lots of people who’ve had to do forced lobs in them due to engine issues. A lot of engines here have been modified in some or other way which makes me nervous.
That’s why I went for the Rotax powered Sling 4...
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How many is lots?
 
Eric Gleason said:
Can I ask why you didn't just choose a different powerplant for the Kitfox?
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Sorry, I just read my post again and realized that it was easy to misunderstand - the Kitfox we were interested in was used and already had the Jabiru installed. Replacing it with a Rotax would have been cost prohibitive.
We would have probably bought it if our airport would be on the country side, but it is located in a densely populated area, where engine failure is absolutely no option.
 
ejensen said:
How many is lots?
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HA. Facts? You want facts? I have none. So it’s a fair enough question to ask.
A number of people I have spoken to have stories about having to do off field landings in their Jabi engined craft.
However.... the local fleet is quite large and they get flown a lot so statistically there is a higher chance of me hearing about an engine issue.

So let me adjust my statement from “lots” to “a number which to me seems over represented”
 
wanttaja said:
Do a search for "CASA Jabiru" to find a copy of the Australian FAA report on Jabiru reliability.

Ron Wanttaja
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I've read it and Jabiru's rebutal. That why I asked what you thought 'lots' was
 
ejensen said:
Depends on how old. Some should be replaced. Some can be upgraded. My Gen 3 has most of the Gen 4 mods. Still no cam rollers or larger case bolts. When time comes I plan on a new latest gen engine.
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The thing i have trouble with is that all that stuff should have been sorted out before putting the engine in production. I can understand and accept minor alterations and durability improvements but I feel the changes Jabiru has been forced to make (to improve durability) are too much. Do they have it right this time? Only time will tell.
 
mondtster said:
The thing i have trouble with is that all that stuff should have been sorted out before putting the engine in production. I can understand and accept minor alterations and durability improvements but I feel the changes Jabiru has been forced to make (to improve durability) are too much. Do they have it right this time? Only time will tell.
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I did expect better too. But I do think they go a bad rap, look at L and C history.
 
mondtster said:
The thing i have trouble with is that all that stuff should have been sorted out before putting the engine in production. I can understand and accept minor alterations and durability improvements but I feel the changes Jabiru has been forced to make (to improve durability) are too much. Do they have it right this time? Only time will tell.
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You want that confidence, you have three approaches:
1. Overbuild the engine, makes it heavy.
2. Test extensively, takes time and money.
3. Build what is needed and make upgrades as you discover problems.

Pick you poison; you cannot get cheap/low cost and well tested without hiccups.

Tim
 
ejensen said:
I did expect better too. But I do think they go a bad rap, look at L and C history.
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I agree, in my opinion both L and C still have valvetrain problems and they have been building their basic engine design for over 50 years. But even with their weaknesses they will run longer than a few hundred hours with minimal maintenance.

I really like the Jabiru engines. They make good power and are relatively simple. But I wouldn't consider them very durable.
 
tspear said:
You want that confidence, you have three approaches:
1. Overbuild the engine, makes it heavy.
2. Test extensively, takes time and money.
3. Build what is needed and make upgrades as you discover problems.

Pick you poison; you cannot get cheap/low cost and well tested without hiccups.

Tim
Click to expand...

I have opinions on what kind of testing should have been done (I work in engine durability). In my opinion, Jabiru did little or none. Much of what has been discovered since being released could have been discovered if they would have run a few of their engines in a test facility with periodic inspection. The changes made with each generation of engine were relatively major, most of these changes should have been made prior to bringing a product to market.

For reference, one of the engines in development at work has already seen 3 major revisions and it hasn't ever even made it into a vehicle (production or otherwise) yet.
 
mondtster said:
I agree, in my opinion both L and C still have valvetrain problems and they have been building their basic engine design for over 50 years. But even with their weaknesses they will run longer than a few hundred hours with minimal maintenance.

I really like the Jabiru engines. They make good power and are relatively simple. But I wouldn't consider them very durable.
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560 on mine. Fingers crossed.
 
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