It's baack! The Raptor 2.0

I think the most hated airplane builder is just messing with us. After all that's happened he can't possibly believe in the raptor 2.0 or his "thrusters". I think he is putting out these videos for his own amusement and watching all of the people on the forums go nuts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPM
I've probably related this story before, so sorry in advance. I once worked with a guy who I described to his manager as either "mentally deficient or a complete a(**hole". The manager said he was neither. Turned out he was both. I think this guy might be both. He is absolutely at least one.
 
pilotrick said:
I think the most hated airplane builder is just messing with us. After all that's happened he can't possibly believe in the raptor 2.0 or his "thrusters". I think he is putting out these videos for his own amusement and watching all of the people on the forums go nuts.
Click to expand...
That’s a lot of work just to troll people.
 
pilotrick said:
After all that's happened he can't possibly believe in the raptor 2.0 or his "thrusters".
Click to expand...

Sure he can. I'm reminded of a quote from Machiavelli, “Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived.”

In this case, PM is both the deceitful man and the fool.
 
Does the 4000# include a parachute? That thing will definitely need a parachute.
 
No way man, with three engines he's got plenty of redundancy especially if they can each produce 1500 lb of thrust

/S
 
woodchucker said:
Does the 4000# include a parachute? That thing will definitely need a parachute.
Click to expand...

Only if you chucked it out the back of a C5/C17/C130. Otherwise it’s DOA and will never get airborne. I think Peter could have found success with Raptor 1 if he’d stayed more conventional in some of his thinking and followed the professional advice that was presented. Well we all know how that saga played out and IMO he’s now gone either full delusional or full conman.
 
Ya I think the overall sentiment of this thread is spot on. I watched all the raptor videos back before he crashed the prototype. We all knew back then that even if the raptor progressed beyond the initial flight testing that it would never live up to the hype that preceded it. At a minimum I believe that the same would be true for this unusual project too. But one thing that I think that Peter does well, is inspire. Yea yea yea… the laws of physics and engineering 101 class, and all that.. But general aviation need forward looking thinkers to push the line. Don’t you think that the engineering gurus told Wilbur and Orville they were idiots too?
Anyway, I hope Peter gets a jackpot!
 
Daniel Isbell said:
Ya I think the overall sentiment of this thread is spot on. I watched all the raptor videos back before he crashed the prototype. We all knew back then that even if the raptor progressed beyond the initial flight testing that it would never live up to the hype that preceded it. At a minimum I believe that the same would be true for this unusual project too. But one thing that I think that Peter does well, is inspire. Yea yea yea… the laws of physics and engineering 101 class, and all that.. But general aviation need forward looking thinkers to push the line. Don’t you think that the engineering gurus told Wilbur and Orville they were idiots too?
Anyway, I hope Peter gets a jackpot!
Click to expand...
Wilbur and Orville did not claim to be able to change the laws of physics. Sorry, I cannot agree.
 
Salty said:
Wilbur and Orville did not claim to be able to change the laws of physics. Sorry, I cannot agree.
Click to expand...


And IIRC, the Wrights published a scientific paper or two and spoke at some proceedings. Among the aviation pioneers of the day, they were known and respected. It was the general public that heaped scorn, not the knowledgeable technical community.

I'll also note that Orville and Wilbur were extremely well self-educated. Self-educated technical professionals weren't uncommon in that era.
 
iamtheari said:
How much does a 0/0-capable parachute weigh?
Click to expand...
Snark aside, the 'chute itself weighs about the same as a non-0/0 chute. A conventional 0/0 ejection seat with that chute weighs ~200lb but the aircraft structure to support it adds to the weight as well. Zvezda (IIRC) was messing with lighter GA-type seats a while ago but (a) I doubt they are/were 0/0 and (b) I don't know if anything ever became of them.

Nauga,
and his headknocker
 
Daniel Isbell said:
But one thing that I think that Peter does well, is inspire. Yea yea yea… the laws of physics and engineering 101 class, and all that.. But general aviation need forward looking thinkers to push the line. Don’t you think that the engineering gurus told Wilbur and Orville they were idiots too?
Anyway, I hope Peter gets a jackpot!
Click to expand...

How is complete nonsense inspiring and forward thinking? Nothing Muller has proposed is possible. It couldn't be further detached from engineering principles and reality.
 
He's also arrogant

Usually the detached-from-reality-but-inspiring people are at least charismatic

But we've also entered the era where a fancy CGI drawing and a couple bullet points with buzzwords is enough to grant millions of dollars in seed capital.. so :dunno:
 
Daniel Isbell said:
But one thing that I think that Peter does well, is inspire.
Click to expand...
3393RP already said it, but there’s nothing inspiring about this craziness vs crookedness. It’s inspiring like a high school sophomore learning a CAD program and doodling on it. “That’s great, Peter,” I’d say as I patted him on the head and poured his Cheerios, “maybe some day you’ll be an engineer.”

“Thanks, Grandpa,” he’d reply, “but I’m gonna be an astronaut and a spy. The world’s first Astro-spy.”
 
I was recently reminded of an endeavor oddly similar to the Discount Velo- I mean Raptor 2. For the past several years, there have been dozens if not hundreds of people trying to fund indie-developed video games through crowdfunding sites like GoFundMe. The 'scams' far outnumber the legitimate attempts. One such project was called Dream World. It was lead by two people with zero technical ability and claims higher than the moon. The funny thing is that they really tried to stick with the project and make it functional (despite the numerous lies in all of their advertising).

As an outsider-looking-in, they really thought they could make something impressive, told people they were going to make something impressive, then made something impressively bad. I think a similar thing is happening here. PM really believes he can make something. PM charges ahead with the advertising (youtube videos). PM makes something barely capable of leaving the ground.

I can (and certainly do) admire the tenacity of these people, but their tenacity is grossly overshadowed by their technical incompetence and misleading advertising.
 
Tantalum said:
…But we've also entered the era where a fancy CGI drawing and a couple bullet points with buzzwords is enough to grant millions of dollars in seed capital.. so :dunno:
Click to expand...

That era might be rapidly diminishing.
 
Half Fast said:
Has anyone noticed the similarities between the Raptor and the Jetoptera? https://jetoptera.com/
Click to expand...
Fluidic propulsion is a fancy name for snake oil mixed with chemtrail solution pumped into a thermobaric encabulator. Turns the atmosphere gray anywhere in the near vicinity of the Jetoptera.
 
Last edited:
OneCharlieTango said:
3....“maybe some day you’ll be an engineer.” ... “Thanks, Grandpa,” he’d reply, “but I’m gonna be an astronaut and a spy. The world’s first Astro-spy.”
Click to expand...
Far better than being the first analyst-therapist.
 
1942 Arthur T. Horman _Desperate Journey_ (film):

MAJ. OTTO BAUMEISTER [R. Massey] : That plane you were flying. ... We know
they are capable of operating at amazing altitudes. How do you manage to
supercharge the engines at the extreme cold of those high altitudes?

F/O JOHNNY HAMMOND [R. Reagan]: If I told you, the others wouldn't find
out?

BAUMEISTER: Certainly not. ... Now: about the supercharger!

HAMMOND: It's done with a thermothrockle.

BAUMEISTER: A WHAT??

HAMMOND: A thermothrockle. Anfiladed through a dalagada. Of course, this is
made possible because the durnadyne has a frainacoupling.

BAUMEISTER: I do not understand you.

HAMMOND: I knew you wouldn't. But if I'd told you before, the ancimeter on
the other side prenulates the caludaspell hepyulis. And that's the entire
secret, and there you have it.

BAUMEISTER: I do not follow you.

HAMMONDWell, maybe I could make it more clear if I drew you a diagram.

BAUMEISTER: Certainly.

HAMMOND : Now, you see there are three things that you gotta understand.
[Draws diagram.] As I said before, the dalagada to which is anfiladed by
the thermothrockle is made possible by its connection with the
frainacoupling of the durnadyne. Why, even at cruising speed, naturally,
the caludaspell hepyulis is prenulated by the ancimeter .[With rising
excitement.] Makes no difference, you could just be takin' off, snowin' or
rainin', any pilot'll tell ya that the altitude [points excitedly at
ceiling to distract BAUMEISTER] - ten, twenty, thirty thousand feet...!
[Hauls off and - fadeout - prepares to clock BAUMEISTER on the chin.]
 
Daniel Isbell said:
But one thing that I think that Peter does well, is inspire.
Click to expand...

Inspiring deception and fraud is not a good thing. And Peter's failures do not inspire success.


Daniel Isbell said:
Yea yea yea… the laws of physics and engineering 101 class, and all that.. But general aviation need forward looking thinkers to push the line.
Click to expand...

Yes, GA needs creative, innovative people. To innovate successfully requires understanding basic principles of mathematics, physics, and engineering. I say that as one who has several STEM degrees and spent 36 years developing innovative products at Lockheed Martin.


Daniel Isbell said:
Don’t you think that the engineering gurus told Wilbur and Orville they were idiots too?
Click to expand...

No, they didn't. The Wrights were known and respected members of the community trying to achieve practical manned flight. The people who called them idiots were laymen in the general public, not their peers.
 
Half Fast said:
Inspiring deception and fraud is not a good thing. And Peter's failures do not inspire success.
Click to expand...

What the desire to build something new should inspire is getting the right kind of education, to include the basics at a minimum. Nature isn't fooled. Laws of physics are called that for a reason.
 
Piperonca said:
Nature isn't fooled. Laws of physics are called that for a reason.
Click to expand...

I like what someone on this forum once said (may have been Half Fast) concerning the Laws of Physics.

It was something like, "When playing with the Laws of Physics you can't win, you can't break even, & you can't quit." :)
 
Daleandee said:
I like what someone on this forum once said (may have been Half Fast) concerning the Laws of Physics.

It was something like, "When playing with the Laws of Physics you can't win, you can't break even, & you can't quit." :)
Click to expand...


Those are the three laws of thermodynamics:
  • 1. You Can’t Win: you can’t get more energy out of the system than you put into it.
  • 2. You Can’t Break Even: any transfer of energy will result in some waste of energy unless a temperature of absolute zero can be achieved.
  • 3. You Can’t Quit the Game: you cannot achieve absolute zero.
Stating them that way has been referred to as Ginsberg's theorem. It's been around for quite a while.
 
Half Fast said:
Those are the three laws of thermodynamics:
  • 1. You Can’t Win: you can’t get more energy out of the system than you put into it.
  • 2. You Can’t Break Even: any transfer of energy will result in some waste of energy unless a temperature of absolute zero can be achieved.
  • 3. You Can’t Quit the Game: you cannot achieve absolute zero.
Stating them that way has been referred to as Ginsberg's theorem. It's been around for quite a while.
Click to expand...

Yep ... this goes with what William Wynne has been preaching about for a long time (as an example):

"Stay away from any person in aviation who actually believes in ‘luck.’ They have abdicated from the responsibility for taking care of their lives. Understand, even though they ‘sent in their resignation letter’, Physics, Gravity and Chemistry don’t accept these resignations, and they still hold him fully responsible. The evidence that fools present for the existence of luck is vague and antidotal at best. Hard, proven and factual evidence for the existence of Physics, Gravity and Chemistry can be found at any crash site."

https://flycorvair.net/2014/01/21/risk-management-human-factors/
 
Well, sometimes the old solutions are still the best...

"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."
Igor Sikorsky​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top