It it all worth it?

[PeterNSteinmetz]

I can’t think of anything more dangerous that thinking that because I once had IFR training, I could fly in “actual” IFR conditions.

I would agree with many others here that the training is well worth it in any case. It makes you a more precise pilot. It is not legal to take an instrument clearance if you are not instrument current in any case.

It is also quite good training to have if you are flying night VFR and could be a life saver in an emergency.

 

[Dav8or]

I have seen an inordinate number of airline pilots who are pretty anti-GA, for a lot of reasons, but predominantly because they have grown to believe it unsafe.

It absolutely is in comparison to their day job. They should also be anti-ground transportation too then. In the US, their professional mode of transport is the safest of all except elevators. Walking is less safe than flying in a US airliner.

Having said that, ground transportation is a requirement for life, flying is not. When you choose to fly your own airplane, you compound the risk you already take in day to day life, just as motorcycles, skiing, scuba diving, ATVs, boating etc. does. If you are single, then it's just a matter of how much it's worth it to you, but if you have a family, particularly with kids, you need to consider how much it's worth it to them as well. If you don't come home one day because you chose to take on additional risk just for fun and enjoyment, was it worth it? If you drag your family into your new obsession and you all don't come home one day, was it worth it? Only you can answer that, but if you do have a family, you might want to ask them too.

 

[Hacker]

It absolutely is in comparison to their day job. They should also be anti-ground transportation too then. In the US, their professional mode of transport is the safest of all except elevators. Walking is less safe than flying in a US airliner.

Well, realize that there's a second component to an airline pilot's views on GA safety, and that has to do with their ratings/certificates and medicals being key to their ability to put food on the table.

Many of them choose not to fly GA because the extra flying is extra exposure to the risk of a violation or having your ticket suspended/revoked, as well as being injured and not being able to maintain a Class 1 medical.

Since they can choose to avoid the risk, they do.

 

[Keith Ward]

This is an important question to ask. The thrill of flying, the freedom, the adventure, the challenge: these make it worth the risks for many (most?) pilots. I'm getting back into flying after years off because I miss those things. I want to challenge myself, and flying does that.

As with so many things in life, it's risk vs. reward. Skydiving, I've read, is the riskiest hobby of all. Skydivers have decided the rewards of that kind of non-airplane flying are worth it. I've decided that in-airplane flying is worth it.

 

[Keith Ward]

I think it's worth adding that statistics show that GA pilots who fly regularly are safer than sporadic flyers (it's a key reason that airline pilots hardly ever die in accidents, as well). I plan on flying very regularly once I knock out my flight review; then going right into IFR training, and doing IFR regularly. Keeping skills updated and sharp is the best way to stay safe.

 

[Polarisguy]

While I wouldn’t dispute the IFR training would increase skills, there is absolutely no chance I will get it. Here is why, I won’t fly if the weather is bad or forecast to get bad. Therefore, I wouldn’t have enough “real IFR” experience to stay proficient. I can’t think of anything more dangerous that thinking that because I once had IFR training, I could fly in “actual” IFR conditions. It isn’t hard at all to avoid flying in IFR conditions in South Florida.

A man’s got to know his limitations.

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it

 

[Challenged]

If the following conditions apply to my flying:

• Daytime
• Good weather
• Airplane in annual
• No known mechanical anomalies
• Good health and rested
  
• Flat-land topography with fields
• Weight and balance verified good
  
• Appropriate fuel to my destination
• Proficient with the airplane in question
• Trip flying, from point A to B, at altitude
• Flight following or IFR flight plan

Now how safe is flying? If a trip in a car to my destination will take me 3 hours, but it's a 1 hour flight, will that difference in exposure make up for the difference in safety? What if I have an airplane with a BRS? Do you think you can make GA as safe, or even safer than driving?

 

[SWOdaile]

While I wouldn’t dispute the IFR training would increase skills, there is absolutely no chance I will get it. Here is why, I won’t fly if the weather is bad or forecast to get bad. Therefore, I wouldn’t have enough “real IFR” experience to stay proficient. I can’t think of anything more dangerous that thinking that because I once had IFR training, I could fly in “actual” IFR conditions. It isn’t hard at all to avoid flying in IFR conditions in South Florida.

A man’s got to know his limitations.

Roger all. Ya gotta go with what works for you. For me, and FWIW, I had a blast working toward my instrument rating.

 

[Warlock]

I had a fatal accident in one of my airplanes four months months ago....Pilot center punched a 2000 ft tower...took his six year old daughter with him.I flew for the first time last week since the accident...as a military Aviator for over 20 years in a past life never did a fatal cause me more than passing reflections of the business I was in...this one made me come close to walking away...still not sure but it’s something you will have to deal with...I have an Aviation family...wife is a crew member with United and Kid is a Pilot and day job works for Forflight...Still have two in the hanger and as soon as the weather breaks I plan on flying again...

 

[Half Fast]

If a trip in a car to my destination will take me 3 hours, but it's a 1 hour flight, will that difference in exposure make up for the difference in safety? What if I have an airplane with a BRS? Do you think you can make GA as safe, or even safer than driving?

The safer/riskier than driving thing is based on nationwide data. For any given individual, it depends upon what and how they fly, and where they drive. I live in central Florida and drive on I-4 to and from the airport. I guarantee that for me, at least, the drive to the airport is the most dangerous part of going flying.
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-4-named-the-most-dangerous-highway-in-america

 

[Challenged]

So, I had a bit of a wild ride home this evening. I had to go to work today, so around dark I left to come back home. I'm about half way home, driving down a 2 lane road (55mph) and come around a curve to find a truck across the road with glass all over the place. There are no emergency vehicles, so I know this just happened, but there are a couple of other cars pulled over and a few people walking around. I pull over and assess the situation and when I'm confident that things are under control I go about my business. I drive a few minutes down the road and see the police car pass me by on the way to the scene.

So, I make it to town, but I know we need a few things from the store, so I stop and pick up a few items and then leave to head back to my house. I get down the road about 2 minutes and a van comes out a side street and the car directly in front of me swerves, but it's too late and both vehicles collide...air bags deploy. I pull over and dial 911 on my phone and tell them where the accident is, but both occupants thankfully were able to get out of their vehicles and start walking around and seem unharmed. It was a pretty good collision, so neither of the vehicles were going to drive away.

I don't know what this all means, but it somehow seemed appropriate to share here.

 

[dmcummins]

While I wouldn’t dispute the IFR training would increase skills, there is absolutely no chance I will get it. Here is why, I won’t fly if the weather is bad or forecast to get bad. Therefore, I wouldn’t have enough “real IFR” experience to stay proficient. I can’t think of anything more dangerous that thinking that because I once had IFR training, I could fly in “actual” IFR conditions. It isn’t hard at all to avoid flying in IFR conditions in South Florida.

A man’s got to know his limitations.

Im also a VFR pilot, also south Florida. While I also take several cross country trips up north in the summer, I don’t think I would stay proficient enough to be comfortable. Sure it would be nice to be able to go thru a cloud layer and get on top, but I’m also retired and can just wait out the weather if needed. Also my wife is a nervous flyer as it is, flying thru the clouds would probably not work for her.

Now I do have about 20hrs of hood time with an instructor, and I’ll get more from time to time just in case I find myself in an emergency. I inadvertently flew into the clouds once at night and I’m glad I had at least some training. Now we don’t fly at night either.

So for me I try and fly at least every two weeks, day VFR, maintain the plane, fly with plenty of fuel, and I go up with a CFI accationally just for some additional training.

 

[FormerHangie]

This is an important question to ask. The thrill of flying, the freedom, the adventure, the challenge: these make it worth the risks for many (most?) pilots. I'm getting back into flying after years off because I miss those things. I want to challenge myself, and flying does that.

As with so many things in life, it's risk vs. reward. Skydiving, I've read, is the riskiest hobby of all. Skydivers have decided the rewards of that kind of non-airplane flying are worth it. I've decided that in-airplane flying is worth it.

If you're talking about plain old jumping out of an airplane skydiving, it's not particularly more dangerous than flying in a GA airplane. Are you familiar with the concept of a micromort? There's a good rundown here. Skydiving comes in at 10 micromorts, not much different than scuba diving at 8. Base jumping, where you jump off a bridge or a cliff, is much more dangerous.

Incidentally, hang gliding has a similar risk rate to skydiving.

 

[DutchRoller]

Life is risky but it's worth living in my book and just as with most things in life risk can be mitigated in GA as well. Stay proficient, keep your eyes open, practice personal minimums, etc. and you can likely fly until you are an old man with no ill effects.

 

[Challenged]

Thanks @FormerHangie, you got me going down a micromort path, and found these graphics, which I thought were interesting. Found here (https://www.tjpalanca.com/2014/03/on-probability-of-mortality.html)

 

[Dan Thomas]

But you should still get the instrument rating. More skills = better and safer pilot, and there may come a time where you're glad you have it.

Even better would be to get the CPL. It covers a lot more ground than the PPL and makes a pilot much wiser and less likely to take stupid chances or make common PPL mistakes.

I read, maybe 20 years ago, that flying with or as a PPL is about four times more dangerous than riding/driving a car. A CPL is about the same risk as in the car, and the airliner is 11 times safer. The PPL/CPL contrast is almost entirely due to training and experience, with some company safety stuff thrown in.

Training is the best safety doodad, bar none. Maybe one of the cheapest, too.

 

[bnt83]

I know too many people that have died in traffic accidents, I don't hardly give it any thought when I buckle into the car almost daily. I read about traffic deaths in my state every day.

 

[danhagan]

I heard this from a Luftwaffe pilot many years ago, Do you want to live life or merely exist?

I'm guessing there were a lot of concentration camp prisoners that would say,"Either".

 

[Fallsrider]

Just saw this A36 Bonanza fatal accident: https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/plane-crashes-on-a-fredricksburg-road/1708867284 Curious about it, I decided to look up the N number of the airplane involved and it belongs to the man who just sold me my Bonanza. He said he wanted to upgrade to an A36 to give his family some more room, and he was so excited about it. He was honest and friendly and fair, it couldn't have been an easier transaction and enjoyed chatting airplanes with him. I've had all sorts of thoughts swimming around in my head every since I came across this. Ugh.

I think about this from time to time, and I'm not even a pilot yet. I'd like to enjoy retirement in a few years by getting my PPL and IR. But I'm going to have to ask myself and my wife if it will be worth the elevated risk. I can minimize the risks by being smart, getting good training, staying current, planning well, etc., but there will still be risks no matter how well I approach flying. Gravity and speed can be an deadly enemy when things go wrong (for whatever reason) and we can't recover or recover in time.

Many fly in GA for years and die at a ripe old age of natural causes. Others perish at a young age doing what they enjoy. You just never know.

There is a gentleman I know that flew planes around my area when he was young and single. I was just a boy then, and he would rock his wings when he flew over our farm and saw us outside. But when he got married, he hung it up and let his medical and certificate expire. He's never flown since. I heard him tell my Dad years ago that he just didn't feel like it was a responsible thing to do with having a family depending on him. We each have to decide for ourselves.

I hate it for this man's family.

 

[Tantalum]

I've had all sorts of thoughts swimming around in my head every since I came across this. Ugh.

But I'm going to have to ask myself and my wife if it will be worth the elevated risk. I can minimize the risks by being smart, getting good training, staying current, planning well, etc., but there will still be risks no matter how well I approach flying. Gravity and speed can be an deadly enemy when things go wrong (for whatever reason) and we can't recover or recover in time.

GA flying is as safe or dangerous as the individual pilot makes it. The fact that commercial airline travel is as safe as it is (at least in the US) is proof that when approached with proficiency, rigorous training and hard standards, it can be remarkably safe. Accidents happen when people don't hold themselves to limits, standards, proficiency, sloppy pre flights, poor weather planning, etc.

Statistical 1/100,000 and rates like that for GA are dubious at best... because it lumps all these pilots into one group:

-pilot A: VFR pilot who goes up on weekends when conditions are beautiful to have lunch with his dad once a month, 55 nm cross country trip. Follows checklists, calls the briefer, studious about personal limits
-pilot B: Bonanza / Cirrus / 210 pilot who logs 200-300 hrs per year, of which 50 hrs are actual IMC. Goes up in adverse conditions but stays proficient, doesn't do stupid pilot tricks, always flies the same route for work reasons, but does fly in known icing conditions (Fiki plane), often at night, etc.
-pilot C: non instrument rated pilot who flies 10-20 hrs per year, occasionally flies IMC "but just to get through a layer" - never talks to ATC. Last flight review was June of 2014, last annual was 2015
-pilot D: Brand new TBM, 250 hr pilot, fresh instrument, only 2.1 hrs actual.. departs in all sorts of conditions, hardly preflights, doesn't check weather, has had some "close calls"
-pilot E: everyone on the field knows he sucks, but everyone is scared to rat him out to the FSDO and no one ever flies with him again
**it's like skiing safety stats.. you lump the beginner who does only greens in with the guy crushing it on the black and double blacks and hitting the glades

**You have to have a type - A front seat approach to flying. Flying will be as safe or dangerous as you make it, and put yourself into. Neglecting to notice steadily decreasing oil pressure on your 3 hr long cross country flight, or cyl 4 egt showing weird readings while overflying good fields, and getting an engine failure over the Grand Canyon isn't dumb luck or "flying is dangerous" nonsense, that's on YOU, the pilot, for not noticing the oil pressure and cyl 4 issue and pressing on despite it. Continuing into icing conditions in a non FIKI aircraft because you've done it before, and you should be out of it soon, and you really have to get home to Susie's graduation? Again, that's on the pilot, not on "well this hobby is dangerous"

If most crashes were caused by wing failures, engine's catastrophically blowing up, meteor's hitting planes, etc., then I'd agree that flying is "dangerous" - but the lion's share of accidents are entirely preventable

Having said that, everyone does have their bad days, but that's the same risk you take driving, or doing anything. I feel much more comfortable in the air flying a plane then I do in a car, not because of statistics, but because in the air I know that I am the only real variable. In the car however? A drunk driver t-boning me is out of my control

 

[FormerHangie]

I think about this from time to time, and I'm not even a pilot yet. I'd like to enjoy retirement in a few years by getting my PPL and IR. But I'm going to have to ask myself and my wife if it will be worth the elevated risk. I can minimize the risks by being smart, getting good training, staying current, planning well, etc., but there will still be risks no matter how well I approach flying. Gravity and speed can be an deadly enemy when things go wrong (for whatever reason) and we can't recover or recover in time.

Many fly in GA for years and die at a ripe old age of natural causes. Others perish at a young age doing what they enjoy. You just never know.

There is a gentleman I know that flew planes around my area when he was young and single. I was just a boy then, and he would rock his wings when he flew over our farm and saw us outside. But when he got married, he hung it up and let his medical and certificate expire. He's never flown since. I heard him tell my Dad years ago that he just didn't feel like it was a responsible thing to do with having a family depending on him. We each have to decide for ourselves.

I hate it for this man's family.

If you want to fly, fly, especially if you are retired and your children, if any, are grown. When you are retired, you can pick your days, and don't have to be anywhere at any particular time, and you can get your risk level down to something reasonable. GA is not entirely safe, but it's not so dangerous that you have to avoid it entirely. Base jumping, that's a different story.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Many fly in GA for years and die at a ripe old age of natural causes. Others perish at a young age doing what they enjoy. You just never know.

Most pilots die of old age. In my experience, those who died young made some inexcusably bad choices. Part of that is the invincibility of youth contrasted with with the wisdom age and experience normally bring.

The trick is to determine to be careful to start with and keep it that way. There are times you should stay home and mow the lawn.

 

[FormerHangie]

GA flying is as safe or dangerous as the individual pilot makes it. The fact that commercial airline travel is as safe as it is (at least in the US) is proof that when approached with proficiency, rigorous training and hard standards, it can be remarkably safe. Accidents happen when people don't hold themselves to limits, standards, proficiency, sloppy pre flights, poor weather planning, etc.

Statistical 1/100,000 and rates like that for GA are dubious at best... because it lumps all these pilots into one group:

-pilot A: VFR pilot who goes up on weekends when conditions are beautiful to have lunch with his dad once a month, 55 nm cross country trip. Follows checklists, calls the briefer, studious about personal limits
-pilot B: Bonanza / Cirrus / 210 pilot who logs 200-300 hrs per year, of which 50 hrs are actual IMC. Goes up in adverse conditions but stays proficient, doesn't do stupid pilot tricks, always flies the same route for work reasons, but does fly in known icing conditions (Fiki plane), often at night, etc.
-pilot C: non instrument rated pilot who flies 10-20 hrs per year, occasionally flies IMC "but just to get through a layer" - never talks to ATC. Last flight review was June of 2014, last annual was 2015
-pilot D: Brand new TBM, 250 hr pilot, fresh instrument, only 2.1 hrs actual.. departs in all sorts of conditions, hardly preflights, doesn't check weather, has had some "close calls"
-pilot E: everyone on the field knows he sucks, but everyone is scared to rat him out to the FSDO and no one ever flies with him again
**it's like skiing safety stats.. you lump the beginner who does only greens in with the guy crushing it on the black and double blacks and hitting the glades

**You have to have a type - A front seat approach to flying. Flying will be as safe or dangerous as you make it, and put yourself into. Neglecting to notice steadily decreasing oil pressure on your 3 hr long cross country flight, or cyl 4 egt showing weird readings while overflying good fields, and getting an engine failure over the Grand Canyon isn't dumb luck or "flying is dangerous" nonsense, that's on YOU, the pilot, for not noticing the oil pressure and cyl 4 issue and pressing on despite it. Continuing into icing conditions in a non FIKI aircraft because you've done it before, and you should be out of it soon, and you really have to get home to Susie's graduation? Again, that's on the pilot, not on "well this hobby is dangerous"

If most crashes were caused by wing failures, engine's catastrophically blowing up, meteor's hitting planes, etc., then I'd agree that flying is "dangerous" - but the lion's share of accidents are entirely preventable

Having said that, everyone does have their bad days, but that's the same risk you take driving, or doing anything. I feel much more comfortable in the air flying a plane then I do in a car, not because of statistics, but because in the air I know that I am the only real variable. In the car however? A drunk driver t-boning me is out of my control

You can certainly do things to minimize your risk while flying GA, but don't think you control everything, because you don't control the weather. Also, thinking that you can achieve the same sort of safety record as the major airlines is kidding yourself, we don't fly that capable of equipment, don't always fly two pilot, and don't fly the defined process that they do. Hopefully you can avoid running out of gas and you won't fly on obvious bad weather days, but the weather doesn't always follow predictions. I don't know what it's like where you live, but here thunderstorms occasionally pop up when they were not expected, and in the summertime haze, it's very hard to pick them out. If you're only going to fly on the perfect days, you may find that you're flying so few hours that your proficiency starts slipping.

Maybe where you are there are 300 days a year with no risk of weather, but it's sure not that way where I am.

 

[Tantalum]

because you don't control the weather

-no, certainly not. But it's not a roll of the dice either.. with the tools on Foreflight and other apps you have a fairly good idea of weather along your route for the next 1-3 hrs. Will it be 2,500 scattered or 1,500 broken? Winds 5 knots or 10 knots? Sure, those are hard to predict.. but most potentially "deadly" weather (thunderstorms, ice, etc.) is generally forecast well, and as pilots you know when conditions are ripe for t storms and make the go, no-go decision accordingly... back in Boston there were many hot hazy July days that I didn't fly.. oddly the one time I did fly on a day ripe for t storms I had to make an unplanned landing somewhere in western Mass after getting somewhat boxed in to wait out the storms

Also, thinking that you can achieve the same sort of safety record as the major airlines is kidding yourself, we don't fly that capable of equipment, don't always fly two pilot, and don't fly the defined process that they do.

-sure, I agree, flying single pilot, single engine, nexrad (typically) at best for onboard radar, altitude and speed limited, icing considerations, etc., factor in, so you are no where near as capable as an A320. But the methodology in principle holds true as far as proficiency, limits, and the standards you hold yourself to (didn't we recently find out that the guy who wrecked the twin Cessna in fog in Florida wasn't even instrument current?). Mind you, some commercial operators fly single pilot, in planes that are, quite frankly, not much more capable than our GA planes.. Cape Air for one flies around a fleet of relatively old non Fiki Cessna twins.. but their pilots won't (or shouldn't) do a half baked preflight, forget to switch tanks, or look up at the sky, scratch their heads, and say "gee, that storm should stay west of my route, KBOS is still VFR, off I go!"

Hopefully you can avoid running out of gas and you won't fly on obvious bad weather days

-But aren't fuel exhaustion, inadvertent IMC, and frankly "dumb" things like that some of the top causes of GA accidents?

Maybe where you are there are 300 days a year with no risk of weather, but it's sure not that way where I am.

-I do get out of San Diego.. lol. My last few flights were out to Colorado, up to the Bay Area (KOAK), Mammoth, and heading up to Lake Tahoe soon. The Bay Area, Rockies, and Sierra Nevada's do have their share of weather and fast changing conditions, and vigilant preflight planning for that is important. But yes, I am blessed with weather that is unusually favorable the majority of the time

PS, Thanks for the thoughtful post FormerHangie (btw, for another time, but why "former" ? That's a hobby I've always been interested in but have yet to try)

 

[FormerHangie]

-no, certainly not. But it's not a roll of the dice either.. with the tools on Foreflight and other apps you have a fairly good idea of weather along your route for the next 1-3 hrs. Will it be 2,500 scattered or 1,500 broken? Winds 5 knots or 10 knots? Sure, those are hard to predict.. but most potentially "deadly" weather (thunderstorms, ice, etc.) is generally forecast well, and as pilots you know when conditions are ripe for t storms and make the go, no-go decision accordingly... back in Boston there were many hot hazy July days that I didn't fly.. oddly the one time I did fly on a day ripe for t storms I had to make an unplanned landing somewhere in western Mass after getting somewhat boxed in to wait out the storms


-sure, I agree, flying single pilot, single engine, nexrad (typically) at best for onboard radar, altitude and speed limited, icing considerations, etc., factor in, so you are no where near as capable as an A320. But the methodology in principle holds true as far as proficiency, limits, and the standards you hold yourself to (didn't we recently find out that the guy who wrecked the twin Cessna in fog in Florida wasn't even instrument current?). Mind you, some commercial operators fly single pilot, in planes that are, quite frankly, not much more capable than our GA planes.. Cape Air for one flies around a fleet of relatively old non Fiki Cessna twins.. but their pilots won't (or shouldn't) do a half baked preflight, forget to switch tanks, or look up at the sky, scratch their heads, and say "gee, that storm should stay west of my route, KBOS is still VFR, off I go!"


-But aren't fuel exhaustion, inadvertent IMC, and frankly "dumb" things like that some of the top causes of GA accidents?


-I do get out of San Diego.. lol. My last few flights were out to Colorado, up to the Bay Area (KOAK), Mammoth, and heading up to Lake Tahoe soon. The Bay Area, Rockies, and Sierra Nevada's do have their share of weather and fast changing conditions, and vigilant preflight planning for that is important. But yes, I am blessed with weather that is unusually favorable the majority of the time

PS, Thanks for the thoughtful post FormerHangie (btw, for another time, but why "former" ? That's a hobby I've always been interested in but have yet to try)

No question there are lots of accidents caused by acts of questionable (at best) judgment, but sometimes the bear eats you despite your best plans. Just last summer I got my family caught out in a bad cell while we were on our boat. We thought we saw it coming and were moving away from it, but it turns out it was forming right over our heads, resulting in frequent lightning, strong winds, and heavy rain. We were on an inland lake so the waves did not get all that high and we were able to motor out of it. Even though were were maybe a mile from our marina, we had to follow other boats in because visibility dropped to a few hundred feet. Ironically, the forecast was for only a slight chance of rain and we were in the one part of the entire metro area where it hit. After we got the boat tied up and into our car, we found that the roads were completely dry a mile and a half from the marina.

Anyway, the "former" is mainly because it's a 2:15 drive to the hang gliding launch, and because we don't have good flyable conditions that many days. I just couldn't get up enough to maintain proficiency. I'd recommend it to any fixed wing pilot, if nothing else, just give it a try once to see what it's all about. I did both an aerotow tandem and some foot launches my first day. The first tandem was downright intimidating, the second one was glorious. On the foot launch attempts, I got a good, but very short flight on my fourth attempt, and I was hooked.

 

[Ted]

So, I had a bit of a wild ride home this evening. I had to go to work today, so around dark I left to come back home. I'm about half way home, driving down a 2 lane road (55mph) and come around a curve to find a truck across the road with glass all over the place. There are no emergency vehicles, so I know this just happened, but there are a couple of other cars pulled over and a few people walking around. I pull over and assess the situation and when I'm confident that things are under control I go about my business. I drive a few minutes down the road and see the police car pass me by on the way to the scene.

So, I make it to town, but I know we need a few things from the store, so I stop and pick up a few items and then leave to head back to my house. I get down the road about 2 minutes and a van comes out a side street and the car directly in front of me swerves, but it's too late and both vehicles collide...air bags deploy. I pull over and dial 911 on my phone and tell them where the accident is, but both occupants thankfully were able to get out of their vehicles and start walking around and seem unharmed. It was a pretty good collision, so neither of the vehicles were going to drive away.

I don't know what this all means, but it somehow seemed appropriate to share here.

More than anything I'm glad to hear that you're ok!

Sometimes we have periods in life where it seems like death is stalking us, and things hit close to home - deaths of people we know or near-death/near-injury experiences. When the World Trade Center was hit, all of us in New York City felt that way. One friend of mine moreso than others, I think. He had moved to North Carolina, and was in NYC to teach a class. He was in a Starbucks across the street when the first tower was hit. We were all shaken up that day, he was moreso than me - not surprising given that he was across the street.

A couple days later he drove back to North Carolina. On the drive home, a car was coming the wrong way down the onramp he was getting on the highway. He swerved, missed the person. He sure felt death was trying.

Don't read too much into it. Be glad you're safe, and buy another car.

To your original point, I've asked myself that question about motorcycles, flying... well really most of what I do has some above average risk associated with it. My MSF instructor died in a motorcycle crash. I've known a few people who've died in crashes. It's not fun.

None of us are getting out of this alive. My mom is in her mid 70s, and hasn't done a damn thing. I feel sorry for her, but it's always been her choice.

 

[FormerHangie]

One more thing: I'm not averse to taking risks. I spent six years riding to and from work on a motorcycle, clearly the most dangerous of all the things I've done. I'm just in favor of knowing what the risk level is before I do it. I hate to see people fooling themselves when assessing risk. Back to those micromorts for a second. I read in someone's blog that this one particular base jump was somewhere around 4300 micromorts per jump. That's too risky for me.

Also, his conclusion was that high altitude mountain climbing, such as in the Himalayas, was the riskiest of all sports.

 

[Tantalum]

Maybe the biggest factor is the assumption that it can't happen to you

Speaking of all this risk, Vsauce is a great channel and has a piece on risk. I love his cigarette analogy

 

[Tantalum]

^^and yes there is a piece on planes in there

 

[Dan Thomas]

The CPL syllabus contains a big bunch of weather theory. Thunderstorms need defined conditions to develop, and carefully reading the METARs can alert the pilot to an increased risk. Temperature and dewpoint, wind direction if orographic lift is a factor, any cold fronts, and most of all, the lapse rate: temperature decrease with altitude.

I enjoyed the weather part of the CPL. I learned much and saw the theory working every day.

 

[Tantalum]

Thunderstorms need defined conditions to develop

Yup.. I agree with some of the others that weather forecasts aren't always accurate to the "t" - but t-storms also don't just surprise pop up out of nowhere

I firmly contend that flying is as safe or as dangerous as we the individuals make it

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you ask of life? Aviation combined all the elements I loved. There was science in each curve of an airfoil, in each angle between strut and wire, in the gap of a spark plug or the color of the exhaust flame. There was freedom in the unlimited horizon, on the open fields where one landed. A pilot was surrounded by beauty of earth and sky. He brushed treetops with the birds, leapt valleys and rivers, explored the cloud canyons he had gazed at as a child. Adventure lay in each puff of wind.

I began to feel that I lived on a higher plane than the skeptics of the ground; one that was richer because of its very association with the element of danger they dreaded, because it was freer of the earth to which they were bound. In flying, I tasted a wine of the gods of which they could know nothing. Who valued life more highly, the aviators who spent it on the art they loved, or these misers who doled it out like pennies through their antlike days?

I decided that if I could fly for ten years before I was killed in a crash, it would be a worthwhile trade for an ordinary lifetime.

--Charles Lindbergh

I've passed 1.5 ordinary lifetimes already, and I wouldn't change a thing. Yes, it's worth it to me. Be smart about it, choose a risk profile you're comfortable with, fly often to keep your skills sharp.

 

[Challenged]

"...fly often to keep your skills sharp." But not too often, as I'm needlessly exposing myself to additional risk?

 

[Half Fast]

"...fly often to keep your skills sharp." But not too often, as I'm needlessly exposing myself to additional risk?

Try carrying a bomb on all your flights.

After all, what are the odds of having a fatal pilot error or mechanical failure and a bomb on the same flight?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

"...fly often to keep your skills sharp." But not too often, as I'm needlessly exposing myself to additional risk?

That's not really how it works. The more you fly, the less risky each flight is... I mean, after about 100 hours you're pretty much bulletproof.

 

[Lowflynjack]

You really have to think about managing your risks when flying. For me, the love of aviation keeps me going, but I've seen some walk away. I've known several pilots who were killed in crashes, and I also lost 7 family members in a crash. I've had an emergency landing when an engine failed on a rental plane. I've had a crash when my engine failed in my Luscombe. I had the engine stop in an Aeronca Chief and I was able to glide back to the airport safely. I've had at least 3 other times where I had to return to the airport. One was this weekend. I was flying with a guy who is getting ready for his checkride when he pulled power to land and figured out the RPM wouldn't go below 2,000. We returned to home base. Slowed down as much as possible, then shut off the engine as we crossed the end of the runway.

I have 9700+ hours. I figure I drive 2000 hours a year or more. If I'd had this many close calls in a car, I might quit driving, or buy the biggest car I could find! I love flying though, and I accept the risks of flying planes that are often 70 year old or more.

 

[Lantraxco]

I had a fatal accident in one of my airplanes four months months ago....Pilot center punched a 2000 ft tower...took his six year old daughter with him.I flew for the first time last week since the accident...as a military Aviator for over 20 years in a past life never did a fatal cause me more than passing reflections of the business I was in...this one made me come close to walking away...still not sure but it’s something you will have to deal with...I have an Aviation family...wife is a crew member with United and Kid is a Pilot and day job works for Forflight...Still have two in the hanger and as soon as the weather breaks I plan on flying again...

Sorry for your loss, and sorry your're going through that. Gotta be hard. One old friend I used to ride motorcycles with on road trips frequently went down on a rain slick road when he, my brother, and my brother's wife ran across a herd of deer in the road. The paramedics and life flight saved him for a while, took about three years for the injuries to kill him. I've always blamed myself some because I didn't make that trip, you see they always made me ride lead. It doesn't make any sense really, but it's how we think. Hang in there.

 

[CC268]

You really have to think about managing your risks when flying. For me, the love of aviation keeps me going, but I've seen some walk away. I've known several pilots who were killed in crashes, and I also lost 7 family members in a crash. I've had an emergency landing when an engine failed on a rental plane. I've had a crash when my engine failed in my Luscombe. I had the engine stop in an Aeronca Chief and I was able to glide back to the airport safely. I've had at least 3 other times where I had to return to the airport. One was this weekend. I was flying with a guy who is getting ready for his checkride when he pulled power to land and figured out the RPM wouldn't go below 2,000. We returned to home base. Slowed down as much as possible, then shut off the engine as we crossed the end of the runway.

I have 9700+ hours. I figure I drive 2000 hours a year or more. If I'd had this many close calls in a car, I might quit driving, or buy the biggest car I could find! I love flying though, and I accept the risks of flying planes that are often 70 year old or more.

Jee wiz that is a lot of engine failures. Even with that many hours.

 

[Fallsrider]

....Statistical 1/100,000 and rates like that for GA are dubious at best... because it lumps all these pilots into one group:....

There's no doubt that if you removed all accidents from the equation where a pilot made a bad mistake, or was not flying wisely, accident statistics would be very different.

One just has to accept the fact that no matter how seriously he takes his flying, something bad can happen. A total engine failure at 300' AGL on climb out could be a very serious matter if in a heavily wooded area or a business district area with buildings everywhere. And these do happen occasionally, oftentimes fatally.

However, when it's time for me to fly, I will most likely accept those risks and do the best I can to keep them minimal. Because I've always wanted to fly, and I plan on doing so.

 

[Fallsrider]

Most pilots die of old age. In my experience, those who died young made some inexcusably bad choices. Part of that is the invincibility of youth contrasted with with the wisdom age and experience normally bring.

The trick is to determine to be careful to start with and keep it that way. There are times you should stay home and mow the lawn.

Agreed.