Is this reasonable for Altimeter/Transponder check?

hish747

hish747

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hish747
Hi All,
I just took our plane to have a Pitot Static/Transponder test done by an outfit that I haven't used before. I was quoted $350 flat for the service. When I got the invoice, first, they charged me $425 for the 91.411 and 91.413 checks and on top of that additional $325 for tightening an encoder and airspeed connection. I would have thought that "tightening" would be part of the inspection if needed.
They invoices me a total of $750. I was really surprised because anytime I was quoted a cost for this check in the past, that's all I paid. Am I being unreasonable in thinking that these charges are inflated and should have at least been pre approved since it's double what I was quoted?
Thanks,
Hish

p.s. On top of this, they gave me a March 31st sign off...wtf right?
 
I think the flat $350 is reasonable. I believe last time I did both was $400. These days I just do transponder at $250. The additional cost of tightening the encoder does seem excessive.

Harder to find static / transponder guys these days. I was telling my mech at work he needs to get into that racket. Just buy a test kit and hit the road. He says the kits are expensive and calibration costs, insurance costs, etc. I don’t know, seems like a good way to make easy cash if you ask me.
 
hish747 said:
I would have thought that "tightening" would be part of the inspection if needed.
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No, on the included in the insp. Any leaks would have been additional mx. How long did it take them to find/leak-check which connections needed to be tightened? And what did they have to disassemble to chase those connections?
hish747 said:
Am I being unreasonable in thinking that these charges are inflated and should have at least been pre approved since it's double what I was quoted?
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Depends. Did the shop workscope/workorder state to call before additional work performed? Was there a verbal on that? As to the charges, I agree the $350 is market and if it took them 3 hours @ $100/hr to find the loose connections then I think that would be reasonable also.
hish747 said:
On top of this, they gave me a March 31st sign off...wtf right?
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Was the check completed on the 31st? Most CRS don't have the luxury of "tweaking" their entries as they have other required documents which would show the 31st vs what was in your logbook. Technically, it would be a Part 43/145 issue if they signed their workorder on the 31st and your logbook on the 1st.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t know, seems like a good way to make easy cash if you ask me.
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FYI: xspndr checks and ifr pitot/static checks can only be done by a CRS. While an independent AP could get a CRS under Special Services the certification/overhead costs make it prohibitive in most cases. But some do exist.
 
sometime leaks takes hours and hours to find. i know because this just happened to me.\\Edit: not the overcharge part, but the shop spending a ton of time to find the leak
 
The shop I use for my and my customers pitot/static tests is $425 for the full IFR cert, less if it's just the transponder correspondence check. The finding and fixing leaks is additional if the system isn't tight. Hard to say if the $325 is excessive or not, I agree that they should have told you "Hey, it doesn't pass, it's $X/hr to find and fix the leak(s)", but that sounds around 3-4 hours labor, which isn't that crazy when tracking down a couple of leaks. If you spend some time with a shop doing these, you'd be surprised how time consuming they can be, esp when having to break the system down to find the leak(s).

As to being a good way to make easy cash, I dunno about that. They take a lot of time (they guy I use doesn't love doing them because they are so time consuming). You gotta get everything rigged up to the various varieties of pitot/static systems, making sure that it can't pop off in the middle of a test (great way to destroy an instrument). The pitot/static tester and the transponder testers are $$$ (esp in the era of ADS-B) and the yearly cal for each is $. You also have to be a CRS, so there is the time and expense of becoming one, maintaining it, etc.
 
What was their response when you asked why the $350 flat rate morphed into $425? As for the additional mx charge, I don't pay for work I don't authorize.
 
Shop I use charges $450 but they're mobile and come to me. Very convenient, 'specially when it's crappy weather. Pull everything into the hangar, turn on the heat, life is good.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: xspndr checks and ifr pitot/static checks can only be done by a CRS. While an independent AP could get a CRS under Special Services the certification/overhead costs make it prohibitive in most cases. But some do exist.
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I used to sign off pitot static tests all the time with my A&P number. That was in GA shops and at the majors. No transponders, or altimeter certs, just pitot static only. Anytime we cracked a line for something it was supposed to be done. There’s no telling how many I did on the DC9’s!
 
That’s right. I did not do any 2 year certs. We simply connected a pitot static leak-down box after running it up a thousand or so. That’s been a very long time ago:)
I’m so thankful I got my A&P right out of high school. Saves us a ton on the 172 now that I’m an old fart!
 
Back to your original question.. Yes, I think 350-400 is reasonable based on the going rates. My guy has always charged about 350 for everything. We’ve had the plane for 19 years. The fee hasn’t changed much over the years.

The extra they charged you does seem a little excessive, but it’s kinda hard to say.
I grew up working as an A&P in both 91 and 121 before transitioning to fly for the airlines. Most GA mechanics seem to only document the corrective action, and not all the troubleshooting steps required to reach that point. He could have done a lot more than you know about.
Airlines A&P’s are different. They tend to document a lot more, including details of each troubleshooting step with along with maint manual references for such. Because of my airline background, I tend to fill up my C-172 logbooks with a lot of details that typical GA mechanics would never document.
 
Jdm said:
... my C-172 logbooks with a lot of details that typical GA mechanics would never document.
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43.9(a)(1) only requires a description of the work performed. Mike Busch mentioned this in a story of his - how an A&P wrote essentially a nastygram in an airframe logbook when a dispute arose between him and his customer because his customer disagreed with his assessment and turned out to be right. Long story short- engine showed zero oil pressure on start up when the owner was AOG. A local A&P insisted his engine needed to be torn down whereas Mike instructed his client to direct the mechanic to check some relief valve/spring, which ended up being plugged and causing the lack of oil flow. The mechanic wrote down his opinions in the log books, which Mike points out as rather uncalled for as 43.9(a)(1) only requires a description of work performed. Commentary and opinion are best saved for a diary :)

Sorry for the thread creep... (but he started it! Haha)

Best,
Nathan
 
Mike Bush has great articles. And I completely agree. Commentary and opinions have zero business in a log book. I’ve never put in that sort of thing. After 20 years of commercial jet maint work I learned to document everything I do per the book. That could be troubleshooting, replacement parts, anything. I write a lot in the books, but it’s accurate details, not opinions.
 
I once spent the better part of a day locating a static leak on a newer 206. I finally found it in the worst possible place: the static condensation bottle behind the right-side interior panel, which is about seven feet long and has lots of trim and what seemed like a hundred screws, all of which had to come out and go back in again.

Customers often don't undersand the time t can take to get some jobs done. We always explained, and showed them, where possible, what was wrong and what needed to be done. They appreciated that. A single sentence in a logbook makes it look far too simple.

A single line item on an inspection checksheet can look real simple, too, yet take hours to do. Something like "Carrry out five fault-free gear swings" looks easy, until you have to jack that 210 or 182RG way up high, safely, and do the swings while watching the stuff work through the floor inspection holes, which requires the seats and carpet and covers to come out. Lots of shops won't bother with it. And then stuff happens....
 
Maybe someday these mechanics, technicians and businesses will figure out this is a hobby and stop taking advantage of aircraft owners. ;)
 
pmanton said:
Every 2 years a chap comes out to our airpark. VFR checks are $140.00 done in your hangar. IFR are $200.00
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Our airpark chap came out about a month ago and it was $150 VFR and $250 IFR. May sound inexpensive but he can do a bunch of planes over a couple of days.
 
Any A&P can do the basic leak check... It's in the service manuals for most of the Cessnas that I've worked on, that can save you a ton of frustration and expense when the CRS comes out to do your recert!
 
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