Is this about the dumbest thing you've ever seen?

Geez, $90 for a handcrank. Is it TSO'd or PMA'd?

I bet you could rig up a geared up 12v electric starter motor that'd bolt onto that sucker and spin it. Might take the better part of a charge to get the door open, but better'n that crank thing.
 
I once DID crank my Schweiss door.
Motor died in the up position.
Called the number on the label, left a message.
Within a few minutes, one of the Schweiss brothers called back. Though business hours were over in Minnesota, he was very apologetic he was unable to answer right away due to a family emergency.
Excellent customer service!
He gave me a few things to try, unfortunately none of them got the motor to operate. I have lots of tools and expensive equipment in my hangar, so even though we are a pretty safe airport, I didn't want to leave it open over night.

Climbed up( I also have a ladder there) and started cranking with a wrench.

Took a few hours. Found out a ratcheting box wrench works best.
.....or maybe least horrid.
Rode the door down. Good thing there is plenty of structural steel to lay/kneel/stand on.

Removed the motor and had it repaired.
Didn't fly while the motor was missing. No way am I cranking it up manually. I fly for fun.

A cordless drill won't do it. Even going down, you're fighting the internal brake. Much cranking required for very little movement.

It wasn't fun, but I didn't want to spend a night playing security guard.

Useless tidbit: I'm looking at building another hangar. If so, I will use another Schweiss bi-fold. Other than this one incident, the door has been flawless.
 
I would get a strong CORDED drill and a gas generator as a backup plan. Or an electric impact wrench.


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SixPapaCharlie said:
Someone should lose their job for coming up with that solution.
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Why? It works. And its cheap.

I'm sure they could have come up with better solution. But not for $90.

If one wants a backup system to deal only with a power outage, get a generator.
If one wants a back up system that will deal with any type of door problem a whole bunch of things will need to be considered. Failure of the electric motor, failure of the gear drive, failure of the pillowblocks, failure of one of the cables/straps, and so forth.

The little crank looks to me it was intended to open the door enough for a person to get out underneath it if necessary (open it two or three feet). Not crank it all the way up or down to get an airplane in or out.
 
I'll bet my cordless drill motor would crank it down if that dinky little crank handle can.
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
I once DID crank my Schweiss door.
Motor died in the up position...
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Interesting and funny anecdote. I hope you don't mind that I shared it with my contractor.

Brings up an interesting point - that doors can fail in ways other than power failure. So, even if I get a big enough generator, having the crank or other manual means of raising or lowering it is still worthwhile in case something else goes.

Useless tidbit: I'm looking at building another hangar. If so, I will use another Schweiss bi-fold. Other than this one incident, the door has been flawless.
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Makes me feel a little better about my choice. Thanks!
 
GRG55 said:
The little crank looks to me it was intended to open the door enough for a person to get out underneath it if necessary (open it two or three feet). Not crank it all the way up or down to get an airplane in or out.
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How many people will throw that much money into a hangar door and NOT spend $300 more to have a side door installed? I’m sure there’s a people sized door in a nicely planned out new hangar. If not, then the owner gets what they deserve. ;)
 
We will never need the crank for personal emergency egress -where Karen is standing is going to be a standard garage door, separated from the main garage area by a single “pole”:

41953719282_b4815acb87_z.jpg


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But yes, if the bifold door was the only door, a door in the door would make a lot of sense. That’s how the bifold door on our hangar at Copperhill is set up.
 
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Very nice, Eddie! That’s really coming along well.
 
$90 for a hand crank? You can do a lot better than than that on Buford Highway in Atlanta. :)
 
I bet with the right gearing the drill would work. Might have to have something custom made, but you could then sell the design for the adapter back to the door people.
 
denverpilot said:
I bet with the right gearing the drill would work. Might have to have something custom made, but you could then sell the design for the adapter back to the door people.
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Anything that you can turn with that little crank, my cordless drill will turn with out and extra gearing.
 
Tom-D said:
Anything that you can turn with that little crank, my cordless drill will turn with out and extra gearing.
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I figure one of mine would and the other is a cheapie and even if it has enough torque, you’d only want to do it sparingly. It’d eat the crappy gear-train in it quickly.

So I suggested external gears in case someone went cheap on the drill. :)
 
GRG55 said:
Why? It works. And its cheap.

I'm sure they could have come up with better solution. But not for $90.

If one wants a backup system to deal only with a power outage, get a generator.
If one wants a back up system that will deal with any type of door problem a whole bunch of things will need to be considered. Failure of the electric motor, failure of the gear drive, failure of the pillowblocks, failure of one of the cables/straps, and so forth.

The little crank looks to me it was intended to open the door enough for a person to get out underneath it if necessary (open it two or three feet). Not crank it all the way up or down to get an airplane in or out.
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Good thread. I have a bifold on my backyard hangar with no backup. The good news is that we’re going on 22 years with it, used it a good bit, experienced more than a few power outages, and so far never been backed into a corner we needed to get out of. With that said, I really need to buy that generator I wired up for some time ago. The thought that I could borrow one, and even rewire any necessary plugs in less time than trying to crank it, remains a reasonable mitigation plan.

Some thoughts in line with the post above:

- First, you must have an alternate mean of egress for people (think fire). I put a door in initially. Later when I put a shop in the back corner of my 40’ x 60’ cave, I put a second door in just because 60’ is a long way.

- A power outage at the wrong time is the failure I want mitigated. Though in reality it’s a pretty narrow threat. Storms, particularly ice storms and hurricanes cause our outages., and we get plenty. Generally I’m already buttoned up inside with no desire to get out until the Wx clears, warms, and the field dries a bit. By that time we usually have power. However, Fran knocked us out for a whole week but I had an airline flight out to Yellowstone to do some fishing. I had a generator at the time but gave it to a neighbor and went fishing with my family jewels safely locked in the hangar. Sandy found us flying home towards the storm. After landing in storm influenced winds we could only pray that the power was on.... even the door’s remote worked, whew! Generally however we just want to stay where we are when bad Wx hits. Even an open hangar door with the plane inside is better than many alternatives. But for power outages, we need a generator for sure.

- Door failures I’m just not going to mitigate. We’re not dooms day preppers. If the caca hits the fan, we’ll jump in the plane and flee. The door will probably work.

- We won’t be looking to add the crank. Doesn’t even make $90 of sense in our situation.

Thanks!


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I've got a generator, but I'll keep all this in mind as I have a Schweiss door as well. I'd probably put my air ratchet on it if I had power. I could probably rank it by hand faster but the air tool takes less effort.
 
FastEddieB said:
We will never need the crank for personal emergency egress -where Karen is standing is going to be a standard garage door, separated from the main garage area by a single “pole”:

41953719282_b4815acb87_z.jpg


.
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Maybe it’s the camera angle, but that looks like a lot of hill to taxi up and down?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Eddie, I love all of the updates and pictures of the project. Looks great. Even if you do have a small crank. ;)
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It’s not the size of the crank, but how you use it (and how often.). :p

I’d say that that a good, healthy generator as a back-up power source (or solar panels or Tesla power wall) would be great additions to the Pole Barn!
 
teejayevans said:
Maybe it’s the camera angle, but that looks like a lot of hill to taxi up and down?
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That entire area is going to be filled in with topsoil to the level of the garage floor, and grass sown for now. We don't think it will be a very pronounced slope - its only a couple of feet rise over the 40' from the runway edge.
 
flyingron said:
I've got a generator, but I'll keep all this in mind as I have a Schweiss door as well. I'd probably put my air ratchet on it if I had power. I could probably rank it by hand faster but the air tool takes less effort.
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That's why I suggested a CORDED Impact Gun. A Harbor Freight impact wrench will spin it plenty fast with enough torque. I'd avoid using a pneumatic tool, as then you're just being inefficient to run a generator to power an air compressor.
 
SoonerAviator said:
That's why I suggested a CORDED Impact Gun. A Harbor Freight impact wrench will spin it plenty fast with enough torque. I'd avoid using a pneumatic tool, as then you're just being inefficient to run a generator to power an air compressor.
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An impact gun is different than a air ratchet.

I do also have a 1/2" drive cordless dewalt impact gun.

And in my case, if the generator fires up, I'd just run the door with its motor. The wrench is soley in the event the motor itself burns up.
 
flyingron said:
An impact gun is different than a air ratchet.

I do also have a 1/2" drive cordless dewalt impact gun.

And in my case, if the generator fires up, I'd just run the door with its motor. The wrench is soley in the event the motor itself burns up.
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Sure it is, but using the air ratchet as opposed to an impact or HD corded drill seems inefficient at best. The air ratchet needs a TON of air to make the door move, which means you'll need something to power the air compressor . . . a generator (assuming power is out). While you have to stop to let the air compressor recharge several dozen times, the electric drill/impact would be done.
 
As I stated, if I had power (either commercial or the generator), I'd just run the motor on the door itself. That's the most efficient and easiest way. This is only for if the motor (fails).

The air ratchet has the advantage of being the lightest tool (even if I do need to trail the air hose up the ladder). I've never had to stop to let even the little 1 HP compressor recharge let alone the one that's sitting in my shop. (I do have two baby compressors that likley aren't up to it).

The other downside of the Schweiss is not only is the MOTOR up on the door, so is the control box. If you have a controller failure you have to climb up there and open the box and jump the thing. At least I have a maintenance disconnect that I can stop the thing once I've jumped it to move. (The thing amusingly uses a commercial Liftmaster garage door unit as it's controller, I have the exact same ones on my car garages).
 
I just have to ask - why don't people use folding sliding doors? The landlord for one of my airplanes has those, and they work great. They slide effortlessly and one person can easily open and close them in about the time required for the bifold to move. I can see why you would not want to deal with them on a hangar where you park your Gulfstream 650, but they work great on a 60 ft door that is tall enough for a GA piston.
 
zaitcev said:
I just have to ask - why don't people use folding sliding doors? The landlord for one of my airplanes has those, and they work great.
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FastEddieB said:
Not sure about what you mean by folding AND sliding. Do you have a photo?

Sliding has the disadvantage of needing to slide somewhere, so when open they obstruct something.
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That’s a good question and may actually be a better suit for this type of operation. The fold and slide doors also known as a stacker door are about 3 foot panels or so, that slide and stack on top of each other. Airport here uses them. Fairly lightweight and no motor is needed to operate and they stack quite efficiently.

If I were building a hangar for myself, I’d probably elect to install something without a motor. Just the basic sliding door style would be sufficient.

CA0930F6-F9CE-435B-968B-3710B578798D.jpeg
 
Those do look pretty cool! Don't think I've seen them before, so did not consider them as an option.

How strong are they when closed? My bifold has locking mechanisms on the sides and on the bottom into the concrete floor - the venturi effect can be huge with straight-line winds pulling them outwards.
 
We had a hangar door with a crank backup...never tried it out before we needed it, and when we did need it it took WAY too much effort...4 or 5 of us taking turns, wearing ourselves out in less than a minute.

Turns out, there was a brake on the motor that you could manually release, and a little cordless drill would run it right up.

I'd talk to Schweiss and see if there are instructions for manual operation.
 
FastEddieB said:
Those do look pretty cool! Don't think I've seen them before, so did not consider them as an option.

How strong are they when closed? My bifold has locking mechanisms on the sides and on the bottom into the concrete floor - the venturi effect can be huge with straight-line winds pulling them outwards.
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They are neat! Are you familiar with Collegedale (KFGU)? They use these style doors on the hangars along the main ramp. I couldn't attest to their strength as I haven't used them personally, but I would think they're just as strong as anything else. They're just about as thick as most other hangar doors that I've seen. May try giving the airport a call. They'd know more. Might be a good option to consider though.
 
Turns out, there was a brake on the motor that you could manually release, and a little cordless drill would run it right up.

If for any reason you let go of what ever your using to turn the motor over with the brake released, the door is coming down CRASH.
 
Ryanb said:
That’s a good question and may actually be a better suit for this type of operation. The fold and slide doors also known as a stacker door are about 3 foot panels or so, that slide and stack on top of each other. Airport here uses them. Fairly lightweight and no motor is needed to operate and they stack quite efficiently.

If I were building a hangar for myself, I’d probably elect to install something without a motor. Just the basic sliding door style would be sufficient.

View attachment 63137
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For those of us that live in hurricane prone areas, they don’t look substantial enough.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not sure about what you mean by folding AND sliding. Do you have a photo?
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Attached is the first picture that I took after landing at my new home base in Texas. And luckily enough the picture has both a single segment and a stack of the rest of them, so you can see how much space the door takes when open. That one extra segment can be folded together with the rest of the stack, too, of course.

door.jpg
 
teejayevans said:
For those of us that live in hurricane prone areas, they don’t look substantial enough.
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The doors in my picture are in Austin, Texas. How much more hurricane-proof do you want?
 
teejayevans said:
For those of us that live in hurricane prone areas, they don’t look substantial enough.
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I don’t think they’re any less stable than other types of hangar doors.

Regardless, Mother Nature is stronger than any hangar door type.
 


Most electric doors I have seen had a chain opener backup for when the electricity went away.

The picture looks like a direct drive, a 4:1 drive would be easier for a heavy door.
 
zaitcev said:
The doors in my picture are in Austin, Texas. How much more hurricane-proof do you want?
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They are not rated for hurricane zone in Florida at least. My neighbor has one of those, and I'm glad I have my beefy 141 mph rated door, although the cost difference is about 3x
 
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