Is it "training"......

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
So I have GTN 650 coming from a 430W and they are different in button-ology. I want to fly with someone, non CFI who knows the GTN well so he can show me things like the difference between loading an approach and flying enroute, and Load and Activate approach, editing flight plans, and how to generally fly the system efficiently. Tips and tricks and such....

Is that legit or is this CFI territory?
 
I’d take a non CFI that has experience with the GTN series over a CFI who’s never seen one before.
 
Not a direct answer, but there is a iPad app that simulates the 650. I used it and found it was very useful.

It’s a pretty darn easy to use overall.
 
Hang 4 said:
Not a direct answer, but there is a iPad app that simulates the 650. I used it and found it was very useful.

It’s a pretty darn easy to use overall.
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Yes, I have the app..... I used it to work my way around I don't know all the ins and outs and need to fly them to understand them. I am a tactile learner.
 
Hang 4 said:
Not a direct answer, but there is a iPad app that simulates the 650. I used it and found it was very useful.

It’s a pretty darn easy to use overall.
Click to expand...
There are also versions for desktop computers.
 
Unit74 said:
So I have GTN 650 coming from a 430W and they are different in button-ology. I want to fly with someone, non CFI who knows the GTN well so he can show me things like the difference between loading an approach and flying enroute, and Load and Activate approach, editing flight plans, and how to generally fly the system efficiently. Tips and tricks and such....

Is that legit or is this CFI territory?
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With a non-CFI, you can't log it as dual received, and based on Bryan's conversations with a FSDO, I think that a non-CFI can't take payment for flight instruction. Other than that, I don't think there's any restriction on pilots learning things from other pilots.
 
Palmpilot said:
With a non-CFI, you can't log it as dual received, and based on Bryan's conversations with a FSDO, I think that a non-CFI can't take payment for flight instruction. Other than that, I don't think there's any restriction on pilots learning things from other pilots.
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I won't need anything logged. I am just trying to be a more efficient light IFR pilot. the 430 was stupid easy. Not sure I like all the submenus and such. Lots of pushing to get what you want. Doesn't help that I don;t know where the "what" is located sometimes.

Problem I have is...

Setting up an approach and flying it, both ILS and Rnav
editing a flight plan ala "route amendment" across the transistors....
Vectors to final and how to get it to do what i want.
 
Unit74 said:
So I have GTN 650 coming from a 430W and they are different in button-ology. I want to fly with someone, non CFI who knows the GTN well so he can show me things like the difference between loading an approach and flying enroute, and Load and Activate approach, editing flight plans, and how to generally fly the system efficiently. Tips and tricks and such....

Is that legit or is this CFI territory?
Click to expand...

As long as you two don’t log it like instruction or pay for it like instruction you’re fine.
 
WannFly said:
As long as the other dude is not Brian with a Y, think you are good
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I was about ready to page him when I read your post :D

Seriously, so long as the non-CFI isn't charging or logging it as a dual flight or for anything "official", you are not really running afoul of any rules.
 
WannFly said:
As long as the other dude is not Brian with a Y, think you are good
Click to expand...

Thats more like two goons trying to figure out which end of a southbound donkey we should ride....... I flew with 6PC once....... I knew it would be a good time when he said, "Hold my beer and watch this shiiii!" Never spilled a drop! Pretty sure Spike and his Mikes Hard Lemonade taught him that trick after seeing a plane powerslide for the first time in my life!
 
midlifeflyer said:
I was about ready to page him when I read your post :D

Seriously, so long as the non-CFI isn't charging or logging it as a dual flight or for anything "official", you are not really running afoul of any rules.
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does he need a lawyer? ;)
 
I do that all the time. Sometimes folks buy me lunch; sometimes I buy lunch (Friday); sometimes there is no lunch at all involved :-(
 
I'm not IR rated (yet), so take this with a grain of salt. It seems dead nuts easy to load and activate an approach in the GTN. Tap the destination airport in the flight plan, tap "load PROC" (procedures). You have a choice of arrival, approach or departure. On the same screen is an "Activate Vectors to Final" button.

I used a 430 some before I got my own plane and I suspect some of your challenge is thinking menus and sub-menus vs activities. Kind of like learning how to use an Iphone if all you've ever done is use a Blackberry. When I made that change, it took forever to figure out the simplest stuff. (Blackberry to Iphone). Since I never really learned the 430, I just started pushing buttons on the GTN app.

Back to the GTN, if you are on your flight plan page, you can modify it pretty easily from there. If there isn't an obvious button to do what you want, first press the relevant waypoint. Destination APT for approaches or any other info like weather. Next waypoint for amending the plan in flight. You'll be transferred to what in the 430 would be a submenu. Insert waypoint before or after, hold at WPT, WPT info, Load Proc, Activate leg (like when you get a "cleared direct to") etc. all appear by just touching the waypoint or airport in the flight plan. You can easily add com or nav frequencies as well from the info button.

You are doing the right thing to just get up and push buttons with someone that knows it. It's super easy, but requires a different way of thinking.
 
Unit74 said:
So I have GTN 650 coming from a 430W and they are different in button-ology. I want to fly with someone, non CFI who knows the GTN well so he can show me things like the difference between loading an approach and flying enroute, and Load and Activate approach, editing flight plans, and how to generally fly the system efficiently. Tips and tricks and such....

Is that legit or is this CFI territory?
Click to expand...
Moving from a 430W to a 650 is pretty easy once you realize that the 650 is basically the same box, but the interface is just a better resolution touch screen and you get to the virtual buttons by hitting the "HOME". However, a pilot experienced in using a device and imparting that knowledge to another pilot is not CFI territory. Basically, if something doesn't require some type of logbook endorsement or sign-off, then it doesn't require a CFI.
 
eman1200 said:
does he need a lawyer? ;)
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Absolutely! Why do you think I said it was ok? Just trying to drum up business.





Just in case:
SarcasmAlert.png
 
Unit74 said:
Is that legit or is this CFI territory?
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I’m not exactly sure what you’re meaning, if it’s ‘legit’ or CFI territory...

You can certainly have a non-CFI come along and show you the ropes. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Real life answer: No!

the operation of the superduperbox8920533 does not require a CFI.

[check the threads] I routinely fly safety pilot for someone and I show him features of his GNSxxx that he is unaware of. That is not flight training.

I don't think the GTN could be any different.
 
Would it really be against the regs to pay someone to teach you how to use a gps if they don’t provide any instruction on actual flying? An interesting edge case. What if I pay them to teach me how to use foreflight while on the plane? What if I pay them to teach me how to yodel while we’re in the plane?
 
The other question, what if you pay them to teach you on the ground or maybe even nowhere near an airplane? The flying of the airplane is incidental to the instruction.

However I suspect there are plenty of people who would do this for free. It isn't a difficult thing. In fact as I recall the 650, if you've got a flight plan built, when you approach the IAF, it will say "Hey, you're coming up to an approach, do you want to fly it?" Or words to that effect. Otherwise, you hit the airport you want, procedures, then select the procedure you want to fly.
 
They could even get paid in the airplane. They aren’t getting paid to flight instruct. Doesn’t have to be on the ground
 
I'm a CFI and GTN literate. How may I be of assistance?
 
SbestCFII said:
Basically, if something doesn't require some type of logbook endorsement or sign-off, then it doesn't require a CFI.
Click to expand...

I've always wondered how aerobatic flight is rationalized in this context. After all, you don't need an endorsement nor a single hour of dual received logged to legally go upside down, but I need a sign off to land it (if tailwheel). Weird.
 
Salty said:
Would it really be against the regs to pay someone to teach you how to use a gps if they don’t provide any instruction on actual flying? An interesting edge case. What if I pay them to teach me how to use foreflight while on the plane? What if I pay them to teach me how to yodel while we’re in the plane?
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If you can show me the FAR authorizing a CFI to charge....
 
Clip4 said:
If you can show me the FAR authorizing a CFI to charge....
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I would recommend instead that you show the reg that blocks it. The regs are specific on things you cannot do. You can do anything unless the regs disallow it.
 
Clip4 said:
If you can show me the FAR authorizing a CFI to charge....
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SkyHog said:
I would recommend instead that you show the reg that blocks it. The regs are specific on things you cannot do. You can do anything unless the regs disallow it.
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:) Of course, if you really want to have some fun, it's pretty implicit in 91.409(b). If CFIs were not allowed to charge, there would be no need for a regulaton requiring a 100 hour inspection to "give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides."
 
Hang 4 said:
Back to the GTN, if you are on your flight plan page, you can modify it pretty easily from there. If there isn't an obvious button to do what you want, first press the relevant waypoint. Destination APT for approaches or any other info like weather. Next waypoint for amending the plan in flight. You'll be transferred to what in the 430 would be a submenu. Insert waypoint before or after, hold at WPT, WPT info, Load Proc, Activate leg (like when you get a "cleared direct to") etc. all appear by just touching the waypoint or airport in the flight plan. You can easily add com or nav frequencies as well from the info button.
Click to expand...

That's a good tip. And if you're watching the Map page like most of us do, you don't have to hit Home -> Flight Plan to pull up the flight plan - Just tap the active leg depiction at the bottom of the map. :)
 
Not only is it ok - it’s smart to take someone with you. The usual disclaimer - make sure one of you is watching for traffic.
We are upgrading to a new GPS and plan to do some buddy flights to get familiar with the GPS. One person can fly while the while the non-flying passenger tries different stuff on the new navigator. The simulators are nice -but actually doing it on the unit itself is makes it sink in a litte better.
 
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