Is it possible to get CFI without IFR rating first?

Depends on what type of CFI.

CFI-Sport Pilot, yes.
CFI-ASE, no.
CFI-Glider, yes.
CFI-Helicopter, yes.

CFI applicant requires (61.183):
(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for—
(i) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;
(ii) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating;
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a powered-lift rating; or
(iv) A flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating.
 
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IIRC, old school, you could get an airplane instructor rating without an instrument rating. But you were limited to 25nm of the home airport. So you could teach the basics, but could not teach much towards dual cross country requirements.

I'm not sure when they changed the rules to require the instrument rating. Ron may know.
 
BillTIZ said:
IIRC, old school, you could get an airplane instructor rating without an instrument rating. But you were limited to 25nm of the home airport. So you could teach the basics, but could not teach much towards dual cross country requirements.

I'm not sure when they changed the rules to require the instrument rating. Ron may know.
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Early to mid 70's?

I remember one of the flight instructors at my airport back then having to get his instrument rating in order to retain his CFI.

But that was a long time ago.
 
Most CFIs are already inexperienced enough, do we really need to lower the bar, do we???
 
ChitDisturber said:
Most CFIs are already inexperienced enough, do we really need to lower the bar, do we???
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Hmmmm...not sure I'd say "most." My main CFI had over 25,000 hours, and the one I flew with when he wasn't around had a paltry 18,000 hours (gasp!). The most junior instructor at my flight school had somewhere around 4,000 hours, I think.
 
MOST of the active instructor dont have thousands of hours, most have hundreds, once they get near mins they get on with some regional (for god knows what reason).


If youve been in aviation for more then a week, you should know this :wink2:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Early to mid 70's?

I remember one of the flight instructors at my airport back then having to get his instrument rating in order to retain his CFI.

But that was a long time ago.
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It was before 1978 -- perhaps the big revision in 1975 when biennial flight reviews were introduced. It would take some digging into the Federal Register to find it, and I'm not that curious.
 
SkyHog said:
Balloon CFIs are private pilots.
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You must hold a CP-LTA-B in order to give flight instruction in balloons:
Sec. 61.133

Commercial pilot privileges and limitations.

(a) Privileges.
...
(2) Commercial pilots with lighter-than-air category ratings. A person with a commercial pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating may--
...
(ii) For a balloon -- (A) Give flight and ground training in a balloon for the issuance of a certificate or rating;
(B ) Give an endorsement for a pilot certificate with a balloon rating;
(C) Endorse a student pilot certificate or logbook for solo operating privileges in a balloon; and
(D) Give ground and flight training and endorsements that are required for a flight review, an operating privilege, or recency-of-experience requirements of this part.
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...but they are not CFI's unless they also hold a Flight Instructor certificate in another category, and there is no such language in 61.113 for PP-LTA-B.
 
Ron Levy said:
You must hold a CP-LTA-B in order to give flight instruction in balloons:...but they are not CFI's unless they also hold a Flight Instructor certificate in another category, and there is no such language in 61.113 for PP-LTA-B.
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The distinction being that a balloon instructor may not be a CFI, but he is an instructor (the "Certified" or "Certificated if you're retarded" being the notable missing word)?

That makes sense. For some reason, I thought there was only one LTA-B rating, I didn't know there was a PPL and a CP. I'll have to go look at the difference, it can't be anything too crazy since you don't have a whole lot of control over precision in a balloon.
 
SkyHog said:
The distinction being that a balloon instructor may not be a CFI, but he is an instructor (the "Certified" or "Certificated if you're retarded" being the notable missing word)?
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Pretty much.

That makes sense. For some reason, I thought there was only one LTA-B rating, I didn't know there was a PPL and a CP. I'll have to go look at the difference, it can't be anything too crazy since you don't have a whole lot of control over precision in a balloon.
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Check 61.5 for the list of which ratings are available on which certificates. You'll see there's no LTA ratings under Flight Instructor. As for what you need to get PP or CP with LTA-B, see 61.109 and 61.129. The privileges which go with each are in 61.113 and 61.133.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go watch the Michigan-Penn State game.

M GO BLUE!
 
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