Is flying a tailwheel plane that different?

I forgot to mention in the video is that the Cessna 170 needs to lead every turn with rudder, because of adverse yaw, which does not happen in the 182 or CJ6 I fly.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Taking off and landing—different. Climbing, cruising, descending—not different.
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colojo said:
Flying a tailwheel plane is no different...
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Not completely true in all instances. If the nosewheel is a typical Cessna or Piper and the tailwheel is typical rag & tube you'll keep learning about the need to pay attention to the rudder even in flight.

motoadve said:
I forgot to mention in the video is that the Cessna 170 needs to lead every turn with rudder, because of adverse yaw, which does not happen in the 182 or CJ6 I fly.
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Bingo! It's the same in spades with my Husky. You don't even think about starting a roll without getting on the rudder, or the nose is heading the wrong way immediately (and rapidly).
 
GRG55 said:
Not completely true in all instances. If the nosewheel is a typical Cessna or Piper and the tailwheel is typical rag & tube you'll keep learning about the need to pay attention to the rudder even in flight.
That is due to the design of the aircraft, not the type of landing gear. Do Pacers fly differently than Tripacers? C-150s vs. C-150s converted to tailwheel? I don't think so.


Bingo! It's the same in spades with my Husky. You don't even think about starting a roll without getting on the rudder, or the nose is heading the wrong way immediately (and rapidly).
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Certainly. But you missed the point. And your examples are the exception, not typical of the differences between the vast majority of nosewheel vs tailwheel airplanes out there in the fleet.
 
Pick up an arrow or dart and throw it “feathers first”.

TW aircraft are similar due to CG aft of Main Wheels.

Fly it till it’s tied down.

You WILL be a better pilot for the experience though!
 
motoadve said:
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Nope! Flying a tailwheel plane is virtually the same as flying any other. It’s when one or more wheels is in contact with the ground that it becomes QUITE different.

In a practical sense there is often also a difference while in the air. Most of the GA tailwheel planes are incredible small and lightly wing loaded. That makes them much more agile, but also more susceptible to being pitched around by gusty winds and bumpy air.

All this makes them a wonderful challenge and an absolute HOOT to fly.
 
It shouldn't be if you are doing it right but it is because people get lazy.
 
The only significant difference is pushing the stick forward to get the tail flying first on take off. Other than that, it's just a matter of remembering that you actually have to use the rudder.
 
When I went to get my tail wheel endorsement the first thing the instructor did was take me over to where a C-172 & a Champ were parked. He then said, "There is no real difference between these airplanes." Seeing the curiosity on my face at his statement he continued, "They will both do exactly what you tell them to do."

Yes there is a difference but my instructor remarked that my ultralight flying days gave me an early indication of what those pedal things on the floor are for. I'm working on it and one day I'm gonna be good at it ... or at least that's the goal! :)

Edit: I will add ... if I can learn it, anyone can.
 
wilkersk said:
The only significant difference is pushing the stick forward to get the tail flying first on take off. Other than that, it's just a matter of remembering that you actually have to use the rudder.
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Except there are some taildraggers where that isn't as appropriate as others.
In my experience there are some conventional gear setups that handle a bit differently - bungee vs spring steel for instance can be fun if you aren't mentally sharp, which leads to the real issue - humility, wisdom, and proficiency, are all good traits for a conventional gear pilot.
 
wilkersk said:
The only significant difference is pushing the stick forward to get the tail flying first on take off. Other than that, it's just a matter of remembering that you actually have to use the rudder.
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You fly a taildragger that doesn’t lift the tail itself on the takeoff roll?
 
Johnbo said:
Paying your insurance bill is a bit different.
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The difference is minimal once you have 100 hours of tailwheel time. In the case of a Vans RV it’s about 100 a year extra for the tailwheel versions.
 
MBDiagMan said:
You fly a taildragger that doesn’t lift the tail itself on the takeoff roll?
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It depends on where the CG is located. With a 210lb guy in the backseat if I don’t raise the tail it will fly off in a 3 point attitude. Solo the tail comes up nicely with no forward stick.
 
I can't see a thing over the nose in 3 point attitude, so depending on how much activity there is at the airport I sometimes forcefully raise the nose, sometimes not.

The tailwheel itself makes no difference in the air, but most tailwheel aircraft are older designs, and most older designs have more adverse yaw and more rudder authority.
 
Jeff767 said:
The [insurance] difference is minimal once you have 100 hours of tailwheel time. In the case of a Vans RV it’s about 100 a year extra for the tailwheel versions.
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I just crossed 100, I sure hope so.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
...Climbing, cruising, descending—not different.
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colojo said:
Flying a tailwheel plane is no different....
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That may or may not be true depending on what you've flown in the past and what particular tailwheel plane you're flying now. If you occasionally stab blindly at the correct rudder pedal while turning in a 172 you will likely be able to keep it more or less coordinated in a turn. But there are many older tailwheel planes that are not nearly as forgiving in this respect.

So my answer would be they are very different in taxi takeoff and landing and they may be somewhat different in the air depending on that plane and your experience and skill.
 
Got my PPL in a J-3. Tailwheel was non-steerable, just like the front wheel on a supermarket shopping cart. Only did one insignificant ground loop pre-solo. Good X-wind that day. I'm puzzled why today, one needs 15 hrs with a CFI. When I soloed, students were routinely soloed in six to ten hours in Cubs, Champs, Cessnas & Luscombes. It is totally learnable for average people.
 
Jeff767 said:
The difference is minimal once you have 100 hours of tailwheel time. In the case of a Vans RV it’s about 100 a year extra for the tailwheel versions.
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The RVs are disproportionately cheap on insurance anyway. With planes like a Cessna 180 vs 182, conventional Maule vs. tri-Maule and you will see huge differences. 4-seats vs 2 probably contributes too
 
The most fun I had flying was a 7AC Champ
Part of that might have been because I had just recently finished my instrument rating so it was a really nice break.... just simple
it just felt right cruising low and slow.... to me every plane had a minimum altitude that felt comfortable, and in my experience the champ was the lowest

that said, I never did get the sign off. Looking back, I feel like the tail wheel was mis-rigged and would shimmy like the dickens...I just couldn't get used to it.
 
My first seven hours were in a champ. It was so hungry for rudder attention that I went away from it with trained and attentive feet. TheChamp was real hoot.
 
MBDiagMan said:
You fly a taildragger that doesn’t lift the tail itself on the takeoff roll?
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Its been my experience that you keep the tailwheel pinned to the deck with full aft stick until you reach the speed at which the tail will fly. Then, its a positive movement to push the stick forward and make the tail fly. Thats the way I was taught, and the way I've always done it, whether its a Citabria, a Cessna 140, or a Pitts.
 
Maxnr said:
I'm puzzled why today, one needs 15 hrs with a CFI. When I soloed, students were routinely soloed in six to ten hours in Cubs, Champs, Cessnas & Luscombes. It is totally learnable for average people.
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No puzzle at all. One of the Seven Learning Factors is Primacy, which says this:

PRIMACY - Present new knowledge or skills correctly the first time. (Teach it right the first time.)

(a) When students are presented with new knowledge or skills, the first impression received is almost unshakeable. This means that what you teach must be correct the first time. Students may forget the details of lessons, but will retain an overall image of the skill or knowledge for a long time.

The student who learns to fly in a trike never learns how to use the rudder, or the other controls for that matter, to instantly stop any deviation from the intended heading or attitude. He's therefore already handicapped when he starts learning the taildragger.

I did quite a few taildragger checkouts. I came up with a term: Somnopedosis. Means "sleepy feet."
 
Brad W said:
Looking back, I feel like the tail wheel was mis-rigged and would shimmy like the dickens...I just couldn't get used to it.
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Not misrigged. The tailspring pack was bent. It gets that way from being whacked down on the runway. When it loses its curvature, the tailwheel pivot axis gets tipped forward, an absolutely certain way to get tailwheel shimmy. And a real good way to get a broken tailpost if it's allowed to continue. Been there, done that. Repair isn't cheap.
 
wilkersk said:
Its been my experience that you keep the tailwheel pinned to the deck with full aft stick until you reach the speed at which the tail will fly. Then, its a positive movement to push the stick forward and make the tail fly. Thats the way I was taught, and the way I've always done it, whether its a Citabria, a Cessna 140, or a Pitts.
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I never taught "pinning the tailwheel" other than after landing in a crosswind. Holding it down hard not only spins that tiny wheel up to awesome speeds, it wears the tire and it can flatten the tailspring pack so the wheel wants to shimmy all the time. Even if the pack is brand-new you can induce shimmy by putting a lot of aerodynamic load on the wheel and flattening the springs.
 
The thing with taildraggers is that landing options are many compared to a trike. You can raise the tail high soon after rolling to get better visibility and to get better traction on the mains in a crosswind takeoff. You can take off with the tail really low to get better STOL or soft-field performance. You can land three-point, or do a tail-low wheel landing (lower airspeed) or a tail-high wheel landing (higher airspeed) for various crosswinds. You can raise the tail after touchdown to kill the lift and get better traction for braking, but you'd better know what you're doing there if you don't want a noseover.

A taildragger pilot knows what a lot of trike pilots don't seem to know: the flight isn't over just because the wheels are on the ground.

Taildraggers will lift their tailwheel off the ground before liftoff if the elevator is left slack. If they don't the airplane is loaded well beyond the aft CG limit. The center of lift is aft of the main wheels and the CG, meaning that as lift increases with airspeed the tail will come up. Simple geometry.
 
wilkersk said:
Its been my experience that you keep the tailwheel pinned to the deck with full aft stick until you reach the speed at which the tail will fly. Then, its a positive movement to push the stick forward and make the tail fly. Thats the way I was taught, and the way I've always done it, whether its a Citabria, a Cessna 140, or a Pitts.
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There is no need to hold the tailwheel down with full aft controls on most tail wheels. I personally can’t think of any where that is necessary.

For most tailwheels, holding the stick neutral (obviously applying aileron for x-wind as necessary) works best. Some airplanes will naturally fly off right from the three point attitude and others the tail will lift off first and then the airplane will fly off when ready.

Very few airplanes need the pilot to push the controls forward to get the tail up. The DC-3 is one of those. Try that same technique in the Beech 18 and you’ll ground loop it on takeoff.
 
I learned on a J3, believe me holding the nose up is different.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is no need to hold the tailwheel down with full aft controls on most tail wheels. I personally can’t think of any where that is necessary.

For most tailwheels, holding the stick neutral (obviously applying aileron for x-wind as necessary) works best. Some airplanes will naturally fly off right from the three point attitude and others the tail will lift off first and then the airplane will fly off when ready.
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Watching the youtube 'expert' tailwheel pilots I could swear the proper technique is to lift the tail as high as possible as soon as possible and then slam it down to the ground hard as you force the mains in the air. :stirpot:
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Watching the youtube 'expert' tailwheel pilots I could swear the proper technique is to lift the tail as high as possible as soon as possible and then slam it down to the ground hard as you force the mains in the air. :stirpot:
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Actually, trim it correctly, and allow it to fly away.

learn correctly, before you try to show off.
 
Dan Thomas said:
The thing with taildraggers is that landing options are many compared to a trike. You can raise the tail high soon after rolling to get better visibility and to get better traction on the mains in a crosswind takeoff. You can take off with the tail really low to get better STOL or soft-field performance. You can land three-point, or do a tail-low wheel landing (lower airspeed) or a tail-high wheel landing (higher airspeed) for various crosswinds. You can raise the tail after touchdown to kill the lift and get better traction for braking, but you'd better know what you're doing there if you don't want a noseover.

A taildragger pilot knows what a lot of trike pilots don't seem to know: the flight isn't over just because the wheels are on the ground.

Taildraggers will lift their tailwheel off the ground before liftoff if the elevator is left slack. If they don't the airplane is loaded well beyond the aft CG limit. The center of lift is aft of the main wheels and the CG, meaning that as lift increases with airspeed the tail will come up. Simple geometry.
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This is not true for a F1 Rocket with a aft but in range CG and the sport wing. The aircraft will fly before the tail lifts.
 
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