I don't even think the flight school was OPEN when I launched on one of my solo cross countries. They let me take the keys home at closing the night before.
And this predated cell phones.
And this predated cell phones.
Is CFI required to be present during cross-country solo flights?
- Thread starter Jeff Szlauko
- Start date
RussR
En-Route
I've restrained myself from commenting so far because I do not teach at a school, but only teach airplane owners OR club members.
With this demographic, there is NO WAY I would even consider being at the airport the whole time they're on their XC. Heck, most of them fly a lot more than required, because they have access to airplanes. One that I remember well probably had about 40+ solo hours (XC and local) when he went for his certificate. Yes, they were all endorsed properly. He just liked to fly, it was great experience, and often it was on days where I couldn't be there anyway - other commitments, or at my day job. I certainly wasn't going to drive out to the airport and sit there for 4 hours while he flew to meet his brother for lunch. I wouldn't want to do that even if he was paying me for that time - I can come up with a lot better uses for my time. After the first XC I know the student pretty well and am happy to review flight planning and provide endorsements by phone and email.
Not all flight training happens at schools with lots of CFIs around.
However, on the issue of pay expectations in general - there is a LOT of work that I (and most CFIs) do that we aren't paid for. The way I figure it, any of my students or former students can call me any time with any issue, no charge. I don't see that as "working for free". Heck, most of them have paid me thousands of dollars over the time we've been working together. I think that's worth some "off the clock" time if they have a question about weather or flight planning or avionics upgrades or whatever. Besides, by that point, most of them have become friends anyway.
With this demographic, there is NO WAY I would even consider being at the airport the whole time they're on their XC. Heck, most of them fly a lot more than required, because they have access to airplanes. One that I remember well probably had about 40+ solo hours (XC and local) when he went for his certificate. Yes, they were all endorsed properly. He just liked to fly, it was great experience, and often it was on days where I couldn't be there anyway - other commitments, or at my day job. I certainly wasn't going to drive out to the airport and sit there for 4 hours while he flew to meet his brother for lunch. I wouldn't want to do that even if he was paying me for that time - I can come up with a lot better uses for my time. After the first XC I know the student pretty well and am happy to review flight planning and provide endorsements by phone and email.
Not all flight training happens at schools with lots of CFIs around.
However, on the issue of pay expectations in general - there is a LOT of work that I (and most CFIs) do that we aren't paid for. The way I figure it, any of my students or former students can call me any time with any issue, no charge. I don't see that as "working for free". Heck, most of them have paid me thousands of dollars over the time we've been working together. I think that's worth some "off the clock" time if they have a question about weather or flight planning or avionics upgrades or whatever. Besides, by that point, most of them have become friends anyway.
Those are two different scenarios. When the student is on a solo flight, you’re not giving instruction of any kind but ONLY advice or an opinion if something were to occur. A student should NOT be obligated to pay their instructor for just being at the airport. I’ve never had a CFI that felt any different.
If and when you decide to go for an airline job, you’ll be in for a real shock when you find out that all of that time you’re just ‘at the airport’ doesn’t get added to your paycheck.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Thad how I operate. They can call or text me anytime. I don't charge for pre and post flight, really just the time we fly. Even with a first student I spend a good 20-30 minutes showing how to pre fight thoroughly on the first two flights/lessons. Yeah sounds long but they get it and understand what they're checking and why. Don't charge for that either.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes it does Ryan. Most union contracts have duty rigs and trip rigs. Encourages scheduling to schedule their pilots efficiently and limit sitting around the airport.
Wasn't anything my CFI was going to do if I had mechanical problems. He was less inclined that I was. I'd call the school's maintenance guy.
Meh, I’ve been under the impression by a few airline guys that they’re not paid for the time they walk through the airports.
Nonetheless, I still disagree with the idea of paying your CFI just for ‘being at the airport’.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah ya gotta take things they say with a grain of salt. Pilots like to *****, especially airline ones. They're being paid for that walking time, next time ask "well don't y'all have trip/duty rigs" and see what they say.
Cool thanks for clarification. I’ll be sure to pull the rug on them next time I hear it!
Since I travel a lot, I often review the student's flight planning from afar and I approve it without being there. I have them text me a photo at each stop along the way to keep me apprised of their progress. Very seldom am I actually at the airport.
I don’t work for the airlines, I have no intentions to work for the airlines. But if someone is telling me I have to wait around the airport, I better be getting paid. Now if I am out doing whatever it is I am doing. And can receive cell phone calls, texts, check flightaware or whatever. I’m not gonna charge for that. But you now tell me I have to be there for free, can kiss my a$$.
What about if I also have another job? I am supposed to tell my job ai can’t eork because I have to sit at an airport because a student might call me. Or should I tell the student he needs to reschedule his flight to work around my other jobs schedule?