Is announcing our tail number necessary?

aftCG said:
Too bad there's nothing about this in the AIM, or discussed in Advisory Circulars.
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AC 90-42F?? AIM 4-2-1?

Bob
 
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Just like color your N number can’t be seen ,while in the pattern. But I still use N number and location,and intention on call outs.
 
I tend to use both. Blue and white Cessna 23C. I figure it can't hurt. The colors may help someone and the numbers let them call me by name if they want to talk to me. Don't always do it, but sometimes it seems like a good idea. If I don't, then its just type and numbers. I don't think I've used just type and color very often, if at all.
 
I like tail number because it allows you to call a specific plane if you need to. The FBO I fly out of has mostly 172's, a couple 152's, and a small handful of multis and complexes. So if you said "White and Blue Cessna" that could refer to multiple planes. So if I'm going to line up on a runway and someone else is waiting to cross it's easy for me to say "12345 go ahead and cross, 56789 will hold on the runway for you."
 
frfly172 said:
Just like color your N number can’t be seen ,while in the pattern. But I still use N number and location,and intention on call outs.
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That’s not the purpose of stating your N number. It’s to identify a specific plane which calling out your color does not always do.
 
I've just gone to giving type and an abbreviated tail number which I think takes care of everything. I don't think there's much point in color as most of these airplanes are white with some kind of stripes that you'll be hard pressed to identify unless you're really really close anyway.

Honestly I'm just happy when someone hits the transmit button and tells me where they are though.
 
bobmrg said:
AC 90-42F?? AIM 4-2-1?

Bob
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Cancelled by 90-66B. Very recently. It's explicit about not using colors to replace call sign.

10.3.1
Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and
detection, but should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the aircraft call sign. But it don't say you can't use paint schemes at all. Lets talk about Nose Art
 
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If you're high wing: Cessna 123SP
If you're low wing: Piper 123SP
If they announce a 5 mile final its a twin or really fast single like a TTx.
If they announce a 10 mile final, its a Citation.
If they ask to land on the ramp, its a helicopter or a Cirrus.
Color is useless, I can't tell what color you are until just before impact.
 
Paulie said:
Amazing a citation wouldn’t call himself a citation. Better to give traffic some idea how fast you are.
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Had an L-39 landing behind me at my home field. His call was "Experimental 123XY, 10 mile final 21" (I heard experimental... I pictured an RV). What felt like 10 seconds later, he makes a 3 mile call.

What the heck? Fast RV or a pilot who is a bad judge of distance.

Then he landed a little camo fighter jet.

I would have preferred "little camo fighter jet 123XY, 10 miles"...
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
Had an L-39 landing behind me at my home field. His call was "Experimental 123XY, 10 mile final 21" (I heard experimental... I pictured an RV). What felt like 10 seconds later, he makes a 3 mile call.

What the heck? Fast RV or a pilot who is a bad judge of distance.

Then he landed a little camo fighter jet.

I would have preferred "little camo fighter jet 123XY, 10 miles"...
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I think the one I heard land had said experimental jet. I stayed out of his way.
 
I dont understand the point in saying "Cessna 23V". I can't see "23V"

I care about:
1) Where are you (ex: downwind)
2) Anything else important (ex: number 2 on downwind)

This is where common sense comes in. If you're a high wing and you have a cherokee in front of you, saying "high wing" helps more than "Cessna 23V" cause for all i know you could be a cessna 310. 23V is irrelevant.
 
timwinters said:
And, BTW, don't be an idiot and say "SkylaneNovember5057Delta." The FAA/FCC says it's one or the other, not both.
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There is one time that is kinda appropriate. Used to fly an aircraft we'll call N6MK and we ALWAYS got asked to "say full call sign" when we only used 6MK, so we just started using the N first because that actually meant less radio chatter most of the time.
 
RyanShort1 said:
No it isn't. Add whatever you want, use the registration.
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What does 23V do for you? I'm just curious because maybe i'm missing something and i'd be happy to learn.

For me, when I say "Challenger jet on left downwind", that's all you need to know. My tail number is pointless. I could make up a tail number technically, but i'm not sure how that adds to safety in a busy pattern
 
I say "Bonanza 123AB" because it gives them an idea of my relative speed and it gives them an ID to call me back on if they need to.
 
LoLPilot said:
I like tail number because it allows you to call a specific plane if you need to.
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Position does that just fine and clogs up the frequency less.

Pilot 1:"Bogwater Traffic, Skyhawk turning left crosswind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 2: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub midfield left downwind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 3: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub just turned downwind 28 have the midfield Supercub in sight Bogwater"
Pilot 1: "Midfield Supercub are you going to be full stop or touch and go at Bogwater?"

Efficient and no tail numbers required.

Personally I don't need nor care what your tail number is. When other pilots give the their tail number, it goes in one ear and out the other for me. I use type and position as well as the sound of your voice and radio to mentally figure out the traffic picture.
 
JOhnH said:
I say "Bonanza 123AB" because it gives them an idea of my relative speed and it gives them an ID to call me back on if they need to.
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or "Bonanza on upwind, you've got a challenger taking off, we'll pass off your right" works too.

What if i get your tail number wrong and you think its meant for someone else?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Position does that just fine and clogs up the frequency less.

Pilot 1:"Bogwater Traffic, Skyhawk turning left crosswind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 2: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub midfield left downwind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 3: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub just turned downwind 28 have the midfield Supercub in sight Bogwater"
Pilot 1: "Midfield Supercub are you going to be full stop or touch and go at Bogwater?"

Efficient and no tail numbers required.

Personally I don't need nor care what your tail number is. When other pilots give the their tail number, it goes in one ear and out the other for me. I use type and position as well as the sound of your voice and radio to mentally figure out the traffic picture.
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Exactly. I can't remember the tail numbers of 6 planes in the pattern. What I can remember however is someone said there's a skyhawk on final, so if i'm looking at a low wing, something doesn't add up
 
JC150 said:
What does 23V do for you? I'm just curious because maybe i'm missing something and i'd be happy to learn.

For me, when I say "Challenger jet on left downwind", that's all you need to know. My tail number is pointless. I could make up a tail number technically, but i'm not sure how that adds to safety in a busy pattern
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If you're consistent I know who you are. What if two different airplanes are saying "high wing Cessna with a blue stripe." At a mile away THAT means nothing to me. I also don't know if it's the same person, two different people (think CFI and student) in one plane, or five different planes (think all the same looking airplanes from any of the local flight school puppy mills). It also helps if there's trouble in the pattern, an accident, a need to sort out what happened, etc. Like it or not, it's actually generally a good thing for people to know who you are and your registration unless you are the problem.
 
Put 3 red and white 172s owned by a flight school in the pattern sometime.
 
luvflyin said:
Cancelled by 90-66B. Very recently. It's explicit about not using colors to replace call sign.

10.3.1
Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and
detection, but should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the aircraft call sign. But it don't say you can't use paint schemes at all. Lets talk about Nose Art
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Nice catch....missed that.

Bob
 
RyanShort1 said:
If you're consistent I know who you are. What if two different airplanes are saying "high wing Cessna with a blue stripe." At a mile away THAT means nothing to me. I also don't know if it's the same person, two different people (think CFI and student) in one plane, or five different planes (think all the same looking airplanes from any of the local flight school puppy mills). It also helps if there's trouble in the pattern, an accident, a need to sort out what happened, etc. Like it or not, it's actually generally a good thing for people to know who you are and your registration unless you are the problem.
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That's where common sense comes in as i stated above. I don't care so much about color unless its something distinct like a bright yellow plane. If you're the only bright yellow plane in a very busy pattern, then say so!

But if there's 2 blue and white cessnas and you're both on downwind, "Second Skyhawk on downwind" means more to me than "Skyhawk 23V" because i'm too busy to remember your callsign and chances are i'll mess it up like "32Q" and you'll think i'm trying to talk to someone else
 
JC150 said:
What does 23V do for you? I'm just curious because maybe i'm missing something and i'd be happy to learn.

For me, when I say "Challenger jet on left downwind", that's all you need to know. My tail number is pointless. I could make up a tail number technically, but i'm not sure how that adds to safety in a busy pattern
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What you are missing is conformity with regulations. Your aircraft radio has a station license that goes along with its registration by reference. Your pilot certificate is your operator's license. You are bound by FCC regulations whether you like it or not.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
What you are missing is conformity with regulations. Your aircraft radio has a station license that goes along with its registration by reference. Your pilot certificate is your operator's license. You are bound by FCC regulations whether you like it or not.

Bob
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I can't argue with that. But whose enforcing it? The point i'm trying to make is tail numbers don't enhance safety and when you're in a busy pattern, sometimes saying less is more.

We never use our tail number with our jet. We use a dotcom callsign with ATC, and otherwise at an uncontrolled field, all you need to know is we're a jet and we're on downwind and we're not telling you our tail number because its none of your business (and technically theres no requirement to even make a radio call)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Position does that just fine and clogs up the frequency less.

Pilot 1:"Bogwater Traffic, Skyhawk turning left crosswind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 2: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub midfield left downwind 28 Bogwater"
Pilot 3: "Bogwater Traffic, Supercub just turned downwind 28 have the midfield Supercub in sight Bogwater"
Pilot 1: "Midfield Supercub are you going to be full stop or touch and go at Bogwater?"

Efficient and no tail numbers required.

Personally I don't need nor care what your tail number is. When other pilots give the their tail number, it goes in one ear and out the other for me. I use type and position as well as the sound of your voice and radio to mentally figure out the traffic picture.
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Make the full call as your first one. "Cessna 12345 on 45 downwind." After that abbreviate it "345 turning base". Doesn't clog frequency.
 
JC150 said:
and technically theres no requirement to even make a radio call
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That's the best part of all of this!

Incidentally the "jet" does enough to set you apart from all the "white high wing cessna" in the pattern.. flip it around though.. if you had a field of 6 white challenger jets in the pattern then something extra may help. I guess if there were two challenger jets going into the same field you could always use your dotcom call sign? "Dotcom 107 on downwind..."
 
JC150 said:
For me, when I say "Challenger jet on left downwind", that's all you need to know. My tail number is pointless. I could make up a tail number technically, but i'm not sure how that adds to safety in a busy pattern
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That was exactly my thinking too at the time of creating this thread.
 
I’ve been saying “Cessna light sport” lately when flying the skycatcher. A lot of folks don’t know what a skycatcher is and the number is useless. Light sport lets everyone know I’m going slow and what the plane will look like.
 
I know those controllers at FISK always say N12345 rock your wings :D
 
When did regulation become optional? I must have missed that memo
 
When I hear you calling 3-10 miles out, and there are other planes approaching or in the pattern, I have a mental radar that I envision where other planes are (seriously, no joke). If there are 2 similar looking planes, and you cats use colors (2 white high wings) my mental radar ends up looking like a shell game on the sidewalk of the Las Vegas strip. I get all confused. Can no longer keep track of who is where. Some unique ID is great; Might as well be N number.
 
WannFly said:
When did regulation become optional? I must have missed that memo
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So when you’re driving you never exceed the speed limit? Always come to a complete stop at a stop sign? Tear off one of those labels on a pillow?
 
Can’t we just communicate with each other? That’s what the whole thing is about. New pilots and student pilots won’t be helped by color unless it’s a pink cub, nor by whatever fancy airplane you have. We just don’t want to occupy the same airspace. And position in the pattern isn’t helpful if two (or more?) planes are on downwind. White Cessna on downwind is really not enough if two white cessnas are on downwind. Light sport isn’t really enough. It’s helpful, but is a light sport different than a C150?

Funky looking slow plane would be a more helpful than “light sport”. Unless you look like a typical Cessna.
 
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