Is announcing our tail number necessary?

RyanB

RyanB

Super Administrator
Management Council Member
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
16,524
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Display Name
Display name:
Ryan
...at non-towered fields only. Towered facilities makes sense, that’s not my question.

At non-towered fields is it really necessary to announce our tail number in our radio calls? If so, why?

As a pilot, I could careless what someone’s tail number is, all I care about is what type of aircraft I’m looking for, which is why a lot of times I’ll just say ‘high wing Cessna’ or ‘red and white high wing’.

Why have we been conditioned to announce our tail number at non-towered fields? Is there a reason to say our tail number that’s better than just announcing our type aircraft? I do both regularly, so no bias against anyone that does or does not. :) This is also assuming no ADSB.
 
oh cool, this again. it's been at least a coupl'a weeks on this topic.

because some of us try to be at least a tiny bit professional or consistent about it? why do one thing at towered and something entirely different at non? I could care less what color your plane.....that I can't even see...is. I'll say "cokehauler 69Y" so people can call me either by type or tail. I have done the same plenty to others who have made their announcements. "hey Cessna 12B, where u at?" but if u announce by color, it doesn't bother me, it's just kinda silly.
 
eman1200 said:
oh cool, this again. it's been at least a coupl'a weeks on this topic.

because some of us try to be at least a tiny bit professional or consistent about it? why do one thing at towered and something entirely different at non? I could care less what color your plane.....that I can't even see...is. I'll say "cokehauler 69Y" so people can call me either by type or tail. I have done the same plenty to others who have made their announcements. "hey Cessna 12B, where u at?" but if u announce by color, it doesn't bother me, it's just kinda silly.
Click to expand...
I honestly don’t remember discussing this. The thought just popped into my little pea brain a few minutes ago.
 
do I need to remove my tail # placard on my panel and put "white and green moonanza" on it instead?
 
I do tail number. Idk if its just because I fly alot but hearing tail numbers allows me to mentally separate traffic better than hearing color. Especially when the traffic count starts going up. When theres 5-6 in the pattern for touch and goes and a few inbound hearing numbers differentiates them easier.
 
I'm guessing thems that don't call their tail number will say NO. Thems that do will say YES.

And, BTW, what's ADS-B have to do with it at a non-towered field not located within a rules area? <- How'd ya like that! That's new to this usual convo

I've started calling "White fast two wing nose gear" That should be enough, eh?
 
falconkidding said:
I do tail number. Idk if its just because I fly alot but hearing tail numbers allows me to mentally separate traffic better than hearing color. Especially when the traffic count starts going up. When theres 5-6 in the pattern for touch and goes and a few inbound hearing numbers differentiates them easier.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
 
Color and type is much more helpful at a non towered airport.

But ether way is fine as long as you not only talk but also LISTEN and look.
 
Sometimes on the 1st call I will give an abbreviated tail number, just in case someone in the area wants to talk to me.
 
Two white and red 172s in the pattern. Checkmate.

How would CAP announce in the pattern? Red white and blue??
 
1. The FCC.
2. It is useful when not if accidents and incidents happen.
3. So many times there are four white Cessnas in the pattern. It really isn't as helpful to be bland as you think. Use callsign type and position, if you really want to say red and white Maule, fine, but use the registration anyway for the rest of us.
 
Ryanb said:
...at non-towered fields only. Towered facilities makes sense, that’s not my question.

At non-towered fields is it really necessary to announce our tail number in our radio calls? If so, why?

As a pilot, I could careless what someone’s tail number is, all I care about is what type of aircraft I’m looking for, which is why a lot of times I’ll just say ‘high wing Cessna’ or ‘red and white high wing’.

Why have we been conditioned to announce our tail number at non-towered fields? Is there a reason to say our tail number that’s better than just announcing our type aircraft? I do both regularly, so no bias against anyone that does or does not. :) This is also assuming no ADSB.
Click to expand...

Because FCC regulations require that every transmission include the ID of the transmitting station.

87.107 Station identification.
(a) Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:
(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.
(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking ("N" number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter "N." When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word "Maintenance" and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.

That is also why a double-click is not in accordance with FCC regulations.

Bob Gardner
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Color and type is much more helpful at a non towered airport.

But ether way is fine as long as you not only talk but also LISTEN and look.
Click to expand...
I find the opposite to be true at busy airports. The can be two or three blue and white Cessnas. I use tail numbers. I don’t think it much matters though. It’s a small thing and both work better in different situations
 
I use our call sign. Our airport is usually very busy and if those Cessna‘s would announce their color only - holy smokes... ;) With the tailnumber I can tell how many others are in the pattern / vicinity of the airport. You know, all these pilots in their white Cessnas sound the same on the radio....;):D:)
 
"white and {I don't know what color that is} stripe cirrus is in the pattern"

deleteme.jpg


maybe a good question to ask is "why DON'T towered fields use color to identify?".


because it's stupid. ok I just made that up, but besides Bobs answer, why don't they?
 
I got the color and type idea from an instructor I flew with once. I had asked him to make the radio calls and he just popped up with it. I think it makes a lot of sense but I also give the tail number or at least the last three characters ("white piper niner six echo")

I was flying a CAP Gippsland GA8 one time, though and my pattern announcement was "white Cessna six charlie pop." No one knows what a Gippsland is or what one looks like, but they look like big Cessnas. My right-seater was a little puzzled until I explained.
 
When 9 out of 10 planes are white. Some with trim that you can’t tell what color it is unless your too close. So to me saying color is fairly pointless.
 
If the purpose of the call is to let others know about you so they can see and avoid, clogging the frequency with your N number has no value. They can't see the number from their plane, so how does it make any difference? On the other hand, if you want everyone to know it's you, go ahead and rattle off your numbers. I really don't care what the other guys does, but I'm going to get on and off the frequency as efficiently as I can, so no numbers from me. In fact, I recently took a check ride and asked the DPE what she wanted. She didn't care.
 
JOhnH said:
I like the "high wing Cessna" call out, so I can distinguish it from the other types of Cessnas.
Click to expand...

You laugh but I have heard a Citation calling "Cessna 123AB, 10 miles out on the ILS for 32" at a non-towered field.
 
Ben Diss said:
If the purpose of the call is to let others know about you so they can see and avoid, clogging the frequency with your N number has no value.
Click to expand...
...
TommyG said:
When 9 out of 10 planes are white. Some with trim that you can’t tell what color it is unless your too close. So to me saying color is fairly pointless.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Chances are that every plane at the untowered field is going to be "white cessna" or "white cherokee" .. and honestly, how often can you actually see that guy is 4 miles out to the west and planning to enter the left downwind? Saying "white Cessna" has zero value to me.. and if I respond back to the guy "hey white Cessna, I am turning base, where are you?" then I'll have five other people in white planes respond. If I just come back with "132SX" then I can paint a mental picture and know exactly where that guy

..I saw both, because that's how I was taught.. but the color to me has extremely minimal value

aftCG said:
Too bad there's nothing about this in the AIM, or discussed in Advisory Circulars.
Click to expand...
Yep, someone posted it above, but they're actually very specific in indicating that you need to state your ID. And it makes perfect sense why. Why do you think towered airports use tail numbers and not "hey white cessna, you are cleared to land.."
 
Ravioli said:
Because they aren't KOSH in late July?!?
Click to expand...
HA! I'm always surprised that there aren't more incidences at OSH to be honest


Granted.. the whole point becomes moot because inevitably there will be at least one person at an untowered field not talking on the radio (or listening!)
 
I usually do a mix. Twin Cessna 3AB. I figure twin Cessna (or Collmbia) is more helpful than Cessna, but adding the abrviated tail number let’s people figure out if there is more than one twin Cessna.
 
Ravioli said:
That's a non sequitur. CAP has an 18 page procedure covering proper pattern announcements.
Click to expand...
Yup. And reams of paperwork that must be filled out before and after each flight. Had to go around? Oh man, now you're filing a report for a full investigation

[pardon the random segue] - talk about an organization that actively works to discourage new members and suck any fun in aviation out of it. It's almost like the top brass thought to themselves "how can we make this whole procedure as similar to any experience at the DMV as possible?" I had such high hopes... oh well
 
As others have said, color information is pretty worthless. As Bob said, the tail number is required per the FCC.

As is allowed, I announce "skylane5057delta." That's the best of both worlds. Gives type and tail number.

And, BTW, don't be an idiot and say "SkylaneNovember5057Delta." The FAA/FCC says it's one or the other, not both.
 
For me, it depends on many factors. Is the pattern busy? Are you the only one there?

Is there 2 high wings in the pattern and you're the only low wing? If so "cherokee on downwind" helps the other 2 high wing guys more than "N123AB on downwind"

Some people dont know types like what a skywagon is. Does "challenger 123AB" mean the challenger jet or the cherokee variant?

If there's something special about your plane, like a bright yellow aopa 152, i would say "yellow high wing" if it was super busy. It does more in my opinion than "Cessna 123AB" because you have the yellow that stands out.

I fly a jet for work. I'll say "jackson traffic, challenger jet on a left downwind for runway 36, jackson". . . Its quick, to the point, and honestly my tail number is nobody's business
 
Am
DesertNomad said:
You laugh but I have heard a Citation calling "Cessna 123AB, 10 miles out on the ILS for 32" at a non-towered field.
Click to expand...
azing a citation wouldn’t call himself a citation. Better to give traffic some idea how fast you are.
 
RyanShort1 said:
1. The FCC.
2. It is useful when not if accidents and incidents happen.
3. So many times there are four white Cessnas in the pattern. It really isn't as helpful to be bland as you think. Use callsign type and position, if you really want to say red and white Maule, fine, but use the registration anyway for the rest of us.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau...ion/aviation-radio-services/aircraft-stations

Aircraft Stations
Station Operation
The licensee of a radio station is responsible at all times for the proper operation of the station. Radio operators should use the following guidelines to make radio a useful tool for safe and efficient flight:
  • Tune both transmitter and receiver to the correct channels.
  • Be sure the channel is clear before transmitting.
  • Be brief. Transmit essential messages only.
  • Shorten or eliminate test calls on the ramp or in flight.
  • Identify transmission with FCC call sign or FAA "N" number.
Click to expand...
 
TommyG said:
When 9 out of 10 planes are white. Some with trim that you can’t tell what color it is unless your too close. So to me saying color is fairly pointless.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the most important thing is position. If positions are accurate, I’ll figure who is who..
 
Ben Diss said:
If the purpose of the call is to let others know about you so they can see and avoid, clogging the frequency with your N number has no value. They can't see the number from their plane, so how does it make any difference? On the other hand, if you want everyone to know it's you, go ahead and rattle off your numbers. I really don't care what the other guys does, but I'm going to get on and off the frequency as efficiently as I can, so no numbers from me. In fact, I recently took a check ride and asked the DPE what she wanted. She didn't care.
Click to expand...

So you decide which regulations to observe and which to ignore? Pretty dangerous attitude.

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top