Intentionally taking longer than most students

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vinlearns2fly

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Being 100% honest and vulnerable here.

I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience. I almost had a runway excursion on a previous solo which shook me up a bit and I have not yet built up the confidence to solo again. With that said, I am still flying with my CFI 3 - 4 hrs a week. I am flying for proficiently and not really looking to squeeze past the checkride and practical tests. I have exceeded all the hours I need for dual flight and completed most dual missions (night mission will be completed in a few weeks).

I am less interested in flying solo (as a pilot) than I am in flying with the safety of my CFI beside me, as long as it gets me to fly. Even when my CIF I is with me, I am flying 99% of the time with my CFI giving me verbal tips and guidance. He rarely has to step in and take control for anything. I fly the plane comfortably and most of what I do has become natural instinct, which I love.

I will eventually start to solo again when my confidence is back. When I do attempt the checkride and practical test, I intend to breeze through it because of all the experience I have flying as a student.

My question is this: Will the number of hours I am spending as a student pilot come into question when I finally go through the practical tests and checkride? Are there any questions I should be prepared to answer about this?
 
Get off the tit. Unless you just don’t wanna.

Getting your pilot certificate is a license to learn; You’re NEVER going to be a perfect pilot, but all you can do is try each and every flight. Don’t wait for that. You can always continue training after your cert.

What does your CFI say about the answers to your question?

Maybe you trolled me, but I’m procrastinating an oil change and playing on the internet on a beautiful morning, lol.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
Being 100% honest and vulnerable here.

I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience. I almost had a runway excursion on a previous solo which shook me up a bit and I have not yet built up the confidence to solo again. With that said, I am still flying with my CFI 3 - 4 hrs a week. I am flying for proficiently and not really looking to squeeze past the checkride and practical tests. I have exceeded all the hours I need for dual flight and completed most dual missions (night mission will be completed in a few weeks).

I am less interested in flying solo (as a pilot) than I am in flying with the safety of my CFI beside me, as long as it gets me to fly. Even when my CIF I is with me, I am flying 99% of the time with my CFI giving me verbal tips and guidance. He rarely has to step in and take control for anything. I fly the plane comfortably and most of what I do has become natural instinct, which I love.

I will eventually start to solo again when my confidence is back. When I do attempt the checkride and practical test, I intend to breeze through it because of all the experience I have flying as a student.

My question is this: Will the number of hours I am spending as a student pilot come into question when I finally go through the practical tests and checkride? Are there any questions I should be prepared to answer about this?
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When you say you your CFI rarely has to step in and take over, is he taking over for safety reasons, or for showing you manuevers? That's an important distinction.

Your hours should not come into question during checkride as long as you meet the minimum. However, the examiner may make assumptions about students with too few hours or too many hours. This is not something you can control.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
Being 100% honest and vulnerable here.

I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience. I almost had a runway excursion on a previous solo which shook me up a bit and I have not yet built up the confidence to solo again. With that said, I am still flying with my CFI 3 - 4 hrs a week. I am flying for proficiently and not really looking to squeeze past the checkride and practical tests. I have exceeded all the hours I need for dual flight and completed most dual missions (night mission will be completed in a few weeks).

I am less interested in flying solo (as a pilot) than I am in flying with the safety of my CFI beside me, as long as it gets me to fly. Even when my CIF I is with me, I am flying 99% of the time with my CFI giving me verbal tips and guidance. He rarely has to step in and take control for anything. I fly the plane comfortably and most of what I do has become natural instinct, which I love.

I will eventually start to solo again when my confidence is back. When I do attempt the checkride and practical test, I intend to breeze through it because of all the experience I have flying as a student.

My question is this: Will the number of hours I am spending as a student pilot come into question when I finally go through the practical tests and checkride? Are there any questions I should be prepared to answer about this?
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paging @Ryan F.
 
I had higher than average hours when I took the checkride (story told here already). During the chrckride he said i did better than expected in the crosswind. But he also commented that I had more hours than average so he seemed to be factoring it in.

I agree with @455 Bravo Uniform - get this done. If you want to build confidence kick out the CFI and start having those "oh ****" moments by yourself. From your post, only your mind is in your way.
 
My CFI told me tales of a "flying tourist". She could have aced a checkride any time she chose, but just wanted to go fly with him a couple of hours a week.

Do what you enjoy. If you do decide to take a checkride just be honest. There should be no judgement.

<- IIRC 90 hours at checkride, just over 400 hours now
 
Ravioli said:
My CFI told me tales of a "flying tourist". She could have aced a checkride any time she chose, but just wanted to go fly with him a couple of hours a week.

Do what you enjoy. If you do decide to take a checkride just be honest. There should be no judgement.

<- IIRC 90 hours at checkride, just over 400 hours now
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So let’s hear the tales
 
You should make the effort to solo again and see if you can do it. If not re-evaluate your game plans.
 
Either you got it or you don't. Piloting is more than hours, it takes aptitude and nerve and the ability to get yourself out of situations that may develop.
 
And just to tag-team off of @Sinistar:

I had 2 “oh ****” moments when I almost died. Not really, but I thought I was gonna.
-One was an engine failure as I was getting ready to rotate. Plane was shaking so bad my eyes blurred. Engine stopped about the same time I jammed on the brakes and shoved the yoke forward. I learned what nose-wheel shimmy was after the rental plane was put back in service the next day. Engine was fine. I was not. Took a while to get back on the horse.
-Another was when I was starting the day to do a bunch of soft field & short field practice. I was given line-up-and-wait. I waited and waited and waited with the yoke in my belly. Got tired, let yoke go. Got cleared for TO. Rolling I remembered “oh yeah, supposed to be soft field”. I hauled back on the yoke on the roll. I got airborne with the stall horn blaring. And slow enough where the crosswind turned me towards a taxiway full of other students in line. All I consciously thought was “I’m full of fuel and gonna burn up” and “I’m gonna kill someone else”. Subconsciously? I pushed the yoke forward gently and no problem. Took a while to get back on the horse again.

Unless your CFI says otherwise, or you’re OK staying a student (nothing wrong with that), at your hours you probably have in you what it takes to subconsciously do the right thing with the plane to be on your own permanently.

Take it for what it’s worth from a free internet opinion. You & CFI know better. Oh yeah, and I was around your age when I got my PPL.
 
My instructor cleared me on my second solo to fly from BED to ASH. Told me not to worry if I saw a few raindrops on the way. About midpoint, I flew into a squall line. A black wall of insanity. Fortunately I was in an aerobat. The plane immediately went inverted, my flightbag hit me in the head, rain pounding off the windscreen like a machine gun, engine started to choke. Virtually uncontrollable with full control deflection. Definitely IFR no view of the ground. Called BED tower in a panic, they asked me to do turns for radar ID to which I refused and added a few expletives. I managed to do a 180 and descend over a highway that I knew had nothing tall near it. Regained sight of the ground and landed from a right base to 29. Sitting on the runway in pouring rain the tower asked my intentions. They knew how close that was, they knew I was a student. I taxied to the ramp. The point is that I toughed it out and learned a valuable lesson. Yeah it was very hairy, very dangerous but I saved my ass, the plane, and lived. Never give up!
 
I’ve been told wealthy international students tend to like to extend their training to the maximum (green card requirement?).
 
Joe_B1 said:
My instructor cleared me on my second solo to fly from BED to ASH. Told me not to worry if I saw a few raindrops on the way. About midpoint, I flew into a squall line. A black wall of insanity. Fortunately I was in an aerobat. The plane immediately went inverted, my flightbag hit me in the head, rain pounding off the windscreen like a machine gun, engine started to choke. Virtually uncontrollable with full control deflection. Definitely IFR no view of the ground. Called BED tower in a panic, they asked me to do turns for radar ID to which I refused and added a few expletives. I managed to do a 180 and descend over a highway that I knew had nothing tall near it. Regained sight of the ground and landed from a right base to 29. Sitting on the runway in pouring rain the tower asked my intentions. They knew how close that was, they knew I was a student. I taxied to the ramp. The point is that I toughed it out and learned a valuable lesson. Yeah it was very hairy, very dangerous but I saved my ass, the plane, and lived. Never give up!
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I hope your instructor got a spanking.
 
I can relate. I'm also a student pilot, somewhere around 75 hrs, about 5 hours solo. I typically fly 3 - 5 hrs a week, and I don't have much left to do other than my solo cross country time and about an hour under the hood. The only time my CFI takes control is when he wants to give me some feedback or demonstrate something. With my CFI I feel relaxed, confident and smooth.

Solo I feel tense, nervous, and generally off my game. I think I was more confident on my first solo than I am now. I had a couple of oh s*** moments solo (minor compared to many stories I've heard) but they shook me none the less. I try to keep reminding myself that as scary as they were, I handled those situations correctly and nearly subconsciously despite my nerves.

The strategy I am taking is to just keep going up solo and rebuild that confidence a little bit at a time. I'm trying to get in at least one short solo for every three lessons with the CFI. Each time the nerves are a little less, and even the unexpected things that happen leave me a little less shaken.

I hope you find the confidence to solo again. IMO there's no way but through it. In the mean time just enjoy flying however you like to do it, who cares what anyone else thinks.
 
Your logbook is your own and there’s no requirement to log anything except what is necessary for proving compliance with FARs. In other words, you could strip your logbook down to 40 hours, with the appropriate hours of instruction and endorsements and not tell anyone about any of the other hours. There’s also no reason to do that. Point is, hours are irrelevant except those minimums required for what you’re attempting to do.
 
The DPE won't care about your hours as long as you meet minimums but learning to fly solo without that safety net next to you is part of becoming a pilot. There is no reason you can't fly with a cfi after you get your license but you also need to learn how to control the plane and manage the flight without the instructor there. Ask yourself why you aren't waking to take that step and find a way to work on it.
 
PaulS said:
I hope your instructor got a spanking.
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Well, I wasn't going to post that part but he knew what happened and came running out to the plane only to get a punch in the nose.
 
sarangan said:
When you say you your CFI rarely has to step in and take over, is he taking over for safety reasons, or for showing you manuevers? That's an important distinction.

Your hours should not come into question during checkride as long as you meet the minimum. However, the examiner may make assumptions about students with too few hours or too many hours. This is not something you can control.
Click to expand...

He assists (yoke and rudder) and never fully takes over. This happens only when my touchdown has the risk of going awry, usually crosswind landing. Otherwise it’s me flying.
 
It’s your money, if that is what you want to do so be it.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
Being 100% honest and vulnerable here.

I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience. I almost had a runway excursion on a previous solo which shook me up a bit and I have not yet built up the confidence to solo again. With that said, I am still flying with my CFI 3 - 4 hrs a week. I am flying for proficiently and not really looking to squeeze past the checkride and practical tests. I have exceeded all the hours I need for dual flight and completed most dual missions (night mission will be completed in a few weeks).

I am less interested in flying solo (as a pilot) than I am in flying with the safety of my CFI beside me, as long as it gets me to fly. Even when my CIF I is with me, I am flying 99% of the time with my CFI giving me verbal tips and guidance. He rarely has to step in and take control for anything. I fly the plane comfortably and most of what I do has become natural instinct, which I love.

I will eventually start to solo again when my confidence is back. When I do attempt the checkride and practical test, I intend to breeze through it because of all the experience I have flying as a student.

My question is this: Will the number of hours I am spending as a student pilot come into question when I finally go through the practical tests and checkride? Are there any questions I should be prepared to answer about this?
Click to expand...

luvflyin said:
paging @Ryan F.
Click to expand...

Since I was paged...

Basically, no. From my perspective these concerns you've described are matters that are related to your training. I walk into a practical test completely unbiased, and if you meet the aeronautical experience requirements, have the appropriate logbook endorsements, have a current FAA medical, etc. you'll receive the same practical test experience that anyone else would.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
He assists (yoke and rudder) and never fully takes over. This happens only when my touchdown has the risk of going awry, usually crosswind landing. Otherwise it’s me flying.
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Have you tried another instructor? Maybe your instructor is too afraid to let you work through a challenging landing and it's reducing your confidence.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
Will the number of hours I am spending as a student pilot come into question when I finally go through the practical tests and checkride?
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Not "come into question". What you're doing is training to be a passenger. The graveyards are full of pilots that flew like they were passengers. They somehow got through their flight tests, so you probably will too.
 
dtuuri said:
Not "come into question". What you're doing is training to be a passenger. The graveyards are full of pilots that flew like they were passengers. They somehow got through their flight tests, so you probably will too.
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How am I training to be a passenger when I am the one aviating, navigating and communicating?
 
exncsurfer said:
Have you tried another instructor? Maybe your instructor is too afraid to let you work through a challenging landing and it's reducing your confidence.
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No, actually he is fine with me landing. I am the one who has not asked to go solo again. But I will be doing that soon.
 
OP here: I should have probably just asked the question about whether having a significant number of student flying hours should come into question during the checkride. That was the point of this post. I thought that the background would be useful, but most people have responded to that instead of the actual question. While I completely appreciate and respect and am grateful for the responses and advice (while ignoring the criticism, chiding and snarky remarks), I want to clarify that I do intend to get back on track very soon.
 
I have known folks who want to fly, but don’t care to get a license. They chose to always fly with an instructor, or get stick time with a pilot friend.

No big deal. As been said, if it’s a hobby do what you want. Absolutely zero pressure.
 
Kritchlow said:
I have known folks who want to fly, but don’t care to get a license. They chose to always fly with an instructor, or get stick time with a pilot friend.

No big deal. As been said, if it’s a hobby do what you want. Absolutely zero pressure.
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OP: "Even when my CIF I is with me, I am flying 99% of the time with my CFI giving me verbal tips and guidance. He rarely has to step in and take control for anything."

Maybe he can have a limitation on his license, "Valid only when accompanied by a CFI."
 
vinlearns2fly said:
OP here: I should have probably just asked the question about whether having a significant number of student flying hours should come into question during the checkride. That was the point of this post. I thought that the background would be useful, but most people have responded to that instead of the actual question. While I completely appreciate and respect and am grateful for the responses and advice (while ignoring the criticism, chiding and snarky remarks), I want to clarify that I do intend to get back on track very soon.
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Nah, all those hours won't make your DPE bat an eye. Those folks have seen it all: all ages, all hours, all circumstances, all kinds of people! It might be part of the "get-to-know-you chitchat small talk," when you first meet the DPE in the morning, but once the ride starts, a ride is a ride.

I hope you can get back into the solo headspace again! Truly BEING a pilot in command, and knowing it because you're alone, is something that cannot be simulated, even by a CFI who just sits there doing a crossword puzzle. For some it comes naturally, while for others it must be learned. Everyone is different. Build that "PIC headspace", at whatever pace is your pace. I for one find solo flight to be deeply meaningful and rewarding.
 
kath said:
Nah, all those hours won't make your DPE bat an eye. Those folks have seen it all: all ages, all hours, all circumstances, all kinds of people! It might be part of the "get-to-know-you chitchat small talk," when you first meet the DPE in the morning, but once the ride starts, a ride is a ride.

I hope you can get back into the solo headspace again! Truly BEING a pilot in command, and knowing it because you're alone, is something that cannot be simulated, even by a CFI who just sits there doing a crossword puzzle. For some it comes naturally, while for others it must be learned. Everyone is different. Build that "PIC headspace", at whatever pace is your pace. I for one find solo flight to be deeply meaningful and rewarding.
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I hope to! I have two things to work on (which I have been doing): 1. My after landing roll, which is what caused the near-mishap that caused me to lose confidence 2.Crosswind landings. I am really close and hope to solo next week.
 
vinlearns2fly said:
I hope to! I have two things to work on (which I have been doing): 1. My after landing roll, which is what caused the near-mishap that caused me to lose confidence 2.Crosswind landings. I am really close and hope to solo next week.
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It's good you "lost confidence", IMO, because you don't yet have the skills. Don't confuse the two, which is what the thread title does in view of your opening statement:

OP: "I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience."
​
If you have only 2 hours of solo time after logging 120 hours, yet you "soloed" at 80-some hours, it tells me that solo flight was premature, as over-due that it was. It sounds like your CFI has seen the light and won't let you solo again for fear of damaging the airplane. Or, maybe the CFI has been fooled by you into thinking you CAN do it again, but in your heart you know the skills aren't there and so you deceive yourself into thinking you don't have "confidence". Well, either way—the skills are lacking. That means you should redouble your efforts to truly understand what you've been taught and to put it into practice consistently, so you never ever revert to doing what makes you "feel comfortable" in spite of it being poor flying technique. Things like coming in faster than taught and planting the plane on the ground or skidding onto final to avoid the discomfort of a steeper bank.

This is my sincerest advice, with your future passengers in mind. Don't stubbornly cling to ground-bound ideas and try to apply them to an airplane. As Wolfgang Langewiesche said in Stick and Rudder, "The difference is—it goes on wings."
 
dtuuri said:
It's good you "lost confidence", IMO, because you don't yet have the skills. Don't confuse the two, which is what the thread title does in view of your opening statement:

OP: "I am a student pilot with over 120 hrs and counting (started in Nov 2020) . I soloed when I was around 80 - 90 hrs (need to check my logbook) and have about 2 hrs of solo flying experience."
​
If you have only 2 hours of solo time after logging 120 hours, yet you "soloed" at 80-some hours, it tells me that solo flight was premature, as over-due that it was. It sounds like your CFI has seen the light and won't let you solo again for fear of damaging the airplane. Or, maybe the CFI has been fooled by you into thinking you CAN do it again, but in your heart you know the skills aren't there and so you deceive yourself into thinking you don't have "confidence". Well, either way—the skills are lacking. That means you should redouble your efforts to truly understand what you've been taught and to put it into practice consistently, so you never ever revert to doing what makes you "feel comfortable" in spite of it being poor flying technique. Things like coming in faster than taught and planting the plane on the ground or skidding onto final to avoid the discomfort of a steeper bank.

This is my sincerest advice, with your future passengers in mind. Don't stubbornly cling to ground-bound ideas and try to apply them to an airplane. As Wolfgang Langewiesche said in Stick and Rudder, "The difference is—it goes on wings."
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I agree with you. I certainly haven’t actively deceived my CFI into thinking that I have a skill level higher than what he believes I have. If anything, I’ve been honest with him about my apprehensions and areas of weakness. Perhaps what you mean is that my CFI may been deceived by some “good days”.

To your point earlier, I have redoubled my efforts at areas where I am weak and that has been my primary focus as of now. They weren’t kidding when they said that landing was the toughest part about flying. I grease many of my touchdowns and do a decent at many others. It’s that damn after landing roll.

I have absolutely no intention of trying to fake my way into becoming a pilot or anything in life, really. That isn’t how I am wired.
 
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vinlearns2fly said:
It’s that damn after landing roll.
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Are your heels resting on the floor? If you have 'em up high on the pedals you lose that fine feel of things. Use foot muscles, not leg muscles except for the most extreme circumstances, by resting your heels on the floor. Also, high on the pedals will get you inadvertently into your toe brakes. Of course, keep "flying" the plane, elevator and aileron-wise until parked. That means during the landing roll hold the nose in the air until it comes down despite your maximum effort to keep it high.
 
dtuuri said:
Are your heels resting on the floor? If you have 'em up high on the pedals you lose that fine feel of things. Use foot muscles, not leg muscles except for the most extreme circumstances, by resting your heels on the floor. Also, high on the pedals will get you inadvertently into your toe brakes. Of course, keep "flying" the plane, elevator and aileron-wise until parked. That means during the landing roll hold the nose in the air until it comes down despite your maximum effort to keep it high.
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You hit the nail on the head! This is exactly where my focus has been. No, initially I was high up and probably inadvertently using the brake / rudder at the same time and at high speed. My focus recently has been making a conscious effort to keep heels on the floor, aerodynamic braking, engaging the brake only after I am really allowed down and not obsessing too much about centerline if I am just a little off on touchdown.
 
PlasticCigar said:
It’s great that you’re sticking with it but maybe instead of flying 3-4 hours a week you should take a month off and think about why you’re doing this and what you expect things to be like AFTER you get your license.

Are you ever going to feel comfortable flying when it’s windy, cloudy or bumpy? It can get pretty scary when you’re up in the air wishing you were on the ground and realizing that you are the only one that can get you safely on the ground.

Sometimes if something isn’t going well for you it’s a sign that maybe it isn’t the right thing for you. Personally, I feel very comfortable as a pilot (been flyng over 30 years) but I’m absolutely horrible at sailing. I’ve tried taking lessons several times and a toddler could probably sail better (and capsize less) than I do. I don’t feel bad about it, I just realize that sailing is not my “thing” and I spend my time doing other “things” that I have more aptitude for.

My wife is much smarter than I am, has excellent coordination, and is able to handle multiple complex tasks easily. I encouraged her to take flying lessons after we bought our plane because I really enjoy flying with two pilots and feel it’s safer. She took a handful of lessons then decided to stop and told me “I enjoy flying with you, but I’m not going to be a pilot. It’s not my thing.” I appreciated that she tried it and that she knew herself well enough to know it wasn’t for her.

Maybe you’ll have a long enjoyable life in aviation or maybe aviation isn’t your “thing.” If it’s not for you then it’s probably better to get out when the only things you’ve lost are time and money. If it is, then don’t worry about how many hours you have when you take your check ride.
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I LOVE flying. I am absolutely certain that I will always want to fly even if I never get my pilot’s license. If it comes to that, then I can always fly with a CFI beside me and I am completely ok with that. I am less interested in ferrying passengers around and some of the advantages of being a pilot are really not that appealing to me.
 
My wife had something like 120 hours on her checkride. Part of this was she was a bit afraid of flying when she started and partly because she did her training out of IAD which meant that there was some basic inefficiency. She ended up quite a competent pilot. Nobody cares how many hours you had at the time you take your ride. Hers was exemplary.
 
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