Instrument Training: Who got training from their CFII in actual IMC?

SbestCFII

SbestCFII

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CFII Scott - The IFR Coach
Getting my current IFR candidate ready for his check ride. Nothing like a relaxing flight on a nice Fall afternoon. (No TSR, just clouds and rain...and a few bumps).
AJV 9-6-2017.png
 
I honestly cannot remember how much actual time I got on my way to the IRA way back when. I do know that, as a CFII, I gloried in those Puget Sound days with an 800-foot ceiling of stratus clouds with the top of the layer at 4000'. Plenty of clear air above for air work, reasonable approach minima, and with almost all of the initial approach segments in the area at 3000 feet there was no need for a hood. Loved it.

Bob
 
Did almost all mine at night, but probably only four or five hours in actual.
 
I got a few hours in. Wasn't much opportunity because the weather was usually good. My CFII had no problems with doing it though.
 
Okay... is this a thinly disguised ploy for students??
Fine with me if it is, just call it what it is.

Not everyone has the opportunity to train in actual. Many can't travel to your part of the world to get it.

Im addition, I'm sure you push several students through that happen to have a time slot when you're clear and a million.

That said, even when you can do actual training I'm betting it's rare to get to true minimums on a consistent basis. Only a simulator can do that.

I do wish your business well.
 
I got 6 hrs of actual during my training and consider myself fortunate for the experience. While I know depending on where you live getting actual during trading can be problematic, I highly recommend students take advantage of flyable IMC anytime those conditions exist at their location.
 
When I was a full time instructor I also thought I was special for taking students into real imc. As @Kritchlow has stated it's more about suitable weather being available than anything else. After almost 20 years in the business and meeting some truly remarkable people I don't feel so special for taking students into imc.

Regardless of what type of cfi you are (stepping stone job or career instructor) you'll eventually recognize that what you are doing is not special, it's just part of the job.

Looked like a fun training flight.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
When I was a full time instructor I also thought I was special for taking students into real imc. As @Kritchlow has stated it's more about suitable weather being available than anything else. After almost 20 years in the business and meeting some truly remarkable people I don't feel so special for taking students into imc.

Regardless of what type of cfi you are (stepping stone job or career instructor) you'll eventually recognize that what you are doing is not special, it's just part of the job.

Looked like a fun training flight.
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All cooks do their job, but there are certainly some a lot better than others.
 
About 6 hours actual, the most memorable of which 25 years later was a real missed approach when we saw nothing but grey at DA on an ILS.
 
My CFII had me up in actual all the time when I was working on my instrument rating at GTR in Mississippi. Easy to get IMC there. As a CFII myself I'd fly in IMC with instrument students. But as Tarheelpilot stated, didn't make me "special".
 
I've gotten a little. The instructor I was working with (God rest his soul) certainly wasn't shy about it. In fact we had a standing arrangement, if there were benign IMC conditions he'd call me and I'd drop what I was doing (if possible) and go fly. We got a couple of hours in this way anyway.

John
 
I did, as much as I could. I even got some actual while doing my private pilot. My CFII had me shoot an ILS (he handled all the communications) and it was more about procedure then doing it 100% right.

We got a pop up IFR clearance and broke through the layer and I was hooked. I definitely wanted my instrument after that.

I also got to do a special VFR during the day and dodged some clouds on the way in.
 
I did my IR during the winter so icing was always a concern. We had one warm January day with a warm front and lots of low stratus freezing level at 5,000ft and ceilings right at minimums. We spent the whole day in the soup.

My SOB CFII had me do a LOC BC for my first approach in hard IMC. We also did a DME Arc which was much easier. It was a great experience but I'd love to get more IMC for sure.
 
My goal during training was to exceed 10 hours of IMC before I took my ride. IIRC I had 10.4. Had some ice, too; valuable experience.

It is a mystery to me how anyone with no IMC experience can consider themselves to be a competent instrument pilot or, worse yet, a CFII. Yes, I know that finding IMC can be difficult in some parts of the country, but that does not change my puzzlement.
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay... is this a thinly disguised ploy for students??
Fine with me if it is, just call it what it is.

Not everyone has the opportunity to train in actual. Many can't travel to your part of the world to get it.

Im addition, I'm sure you push several students through that happen to have a time slot when you're clear and a million.

That said, even when you can do actual training I'm betting it's rare to get to true minimums on a consistent basis. Only a simulator can do that.

I do wish your business well.
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I already have more student interest than I can accommodate, since it's essentially my "fun" job. My "day" job pays all the bills. I'm more interested in finding out about other people that get to train in in actual since many of the people expressing interest talk about their previous CFIIs not being interested in training in actual. It seems that there are several commenters that did get at least some experience and that's great. I know from y own experience that what little actual I had (a couple) helped me greatly the first time I entered IMC without my CFII in the right seat.
 
airdale said:
My goal during training was to exceed 10 hours of IMC before I took my ride. IIRC I had 10.4. Had some ice, too; valuable experience.

It is a mystery to me how anyone with no IMC experience can consider themselves to be a competent instrument pilot or, worse yet, a CFII. Yes, I know that finding IMC can be difficult in some parts of the country, but that does not change my puzzlement.
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Mostly because, other than the experience of knowing you can't just take off the hood and being comfortable with that (not a small goal), most instrument flight is about understanding procedures rather than aircraft control. Fortunately, most pilots who train in areas where flyable clouds are the exception, understand that.
 
1.5 hours, mostly morning fog layers, but it was quite helpful.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Mostly because, other than the experience of knowing you can't just take off the hood and being comfortable with that (not a small goal), most instrument flight is about understanding procedures rather than aircraft control. Fortunately, most pilots who train in areas where flyable clouds are the exception, understand that.
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Objection. Witness is speculating.

I will also speculate: Few deaths in IMC are due to not following IFR procedures.
 
Kritchlow said:
That said, even when you can do actual training I'm betting it's rare to get to true minimums on a consistent basis. Only a simulator can do that.
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You obviously have not visited my little corner of the world.
 
I'd have to dig out my last logbook for a count of hours, but we made several flights in actual after writing down all of the power settings, speeds, etc., on the chart and demonstrating partial panel skill under the hood.

This had several benefits besides the obvious. I went into an outbound turn in IMC at cruise speed, and fell right out the bottom of the clouds, so I experienced spatial D for real, with the CFII beside me, and recovered. Also flew an ILS in actual, then headed off for a VOR-A, dropped off radar and was told to report our miss, then passing the station inbound had a complete elecfrical failure, thankfully beneath the layer.

The more varied experience you can gain with your CFII, the better it will be for you later, when you are alone or with non-rated pax.
 
steingar said:
You obviously have not visited my little corner of the world.
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I did my IFR training 40 Mooney minutes south of you, based on the riverbank at KHTW. Trained evenings after work, usually meeting at 6:00 pm, all winter long. Plane broke (see above), costing Sept, Oct, Nov and much of Dec. Did my IFR XC in Dec to Lunkin and Fairfield Co. Checkride was in April.

That's in "your little corner of the world." You gotta want it . . . . IFR isn't supposed to be easy . . .
 
airdale said:
Objection. Witness is speculating.

I will also speculate: Few deaths in IMC are due to not following IFR procedures.
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I could disagree. Perhaps you are defining "procedures" far more narrowly than I am. I'm just using the term to differentiate it from stuck & rudder in the clouds. It includes aeronautical knowledge, risk management, understanding and proper use of equipment, decision-making, just about everything that is not stick & ruddder in the clouds.
 
My first PPL flight was in IMC. :)
Instructor knew I was planning to go for my IR a year or so after the PPL.

Tim
 
Obviously was at the mercy of the weather being compatible with schedules, but certainly took advantage of actual IMC opportunities in training when they were available. "View limiting devices" just don't really effectively simulate actual IMC. During PPL training 1000 ft overcast are the days you hate... as an IFR student those are the days you hope for!

That first time I launched into the clouds in training it was exciting, a bit scary, but also that sort of mischievous feeling of doing something you're not supposed to be doing which perhaps came from original PPL days where as VFR only clouds are like the forbidden fruit that one must stay far away from!
 
Almost none. My CFI was not comfortable with the non-digital instrumentation in my aircraft. I was too far down the road with him before I realized his reluctance to flying in IMC in my plane. I should have changed instructors.

I got my ticket, did one solo flight in actual - where I almost lost it - and never flew IFR again.

I suggest students make it clear with your instructor that you expect to learn in real IMC conditions. Simulated does little to prepare you for real world conditions.

Also, make sure you have a clear understanding of your goals for an IFR rating. Thinking you will get the rating to get above the occasional marine layer is not a good reason. If you're not going to be flying IFR regularly and commit to staying current, you are an accident waiting to happen.

You can get a lot of VFR flight experience (and have a lot of cool adventures) with the money you will spend on an IFR rating.

While getting my ticket taught me a lot about flying the aircraft, and other aspects of flying, I wish I had spent the $8k on flying a bunch of adventures with my wife.
 
I flew in actual IMC both during training and on my instrument checkride.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Almost none. My CFI was not comfortable with the non-digital instrumentation in my aircraft. I was too far down the road with him before I realized his reluctance to flying in IMC in my plane. I should have changed instructors.

I got my ticket, did one solo flight in actual - where I almost lost it - and never flew IFR again.

I suggest students make it clear with your instructor that you expect to learn in real IMC conditions. Simulated does little to prepare you for real world conditions.

Also, make sure you have a clear understanding of your goals for an IFR rating. Thinking you will get the rating to get above the occasional marine layer is not a good reason. If you're not going to be flying IFR regularly and commit to staying current, you are an accident waiting to happen.

You can get a lot of VFR flight experience (and have a lot of cool adventures) with the money you will spend on an IFR rating.

While getting my ticket taught me a lot about flying the aircraft, and other aspects of flying, I wish I had spent the $8k on flying a bunch of adventures with my wife.
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Sorry you experienced all that. I don't think it's wasted though. Even if you never intend to fly IFR again, your training may still save your ass someday, even under VFR or MVFR conditions.
 
Still in training here, but we'll specifically go flying on overcast days to get some actual IMC in. If I get my IR it's because I'll want to be able to actually use it to get places without the anxiety of flying blind.. to that end I want as much of my training as practically possible to be in actual IMC conditions. Plus, the hood sucks - it's more just an annoyance in my opinion than a real simulation of what flying in the clouds is like.. you don't get that mild "I'm trapped" feeling
 
Got my IR a long time ago at a flight school in Troutdale, Oregon, in the winter. I flew my own airplane to the school and trained in it (Bellanca Viking). I was VERY surprised when, on the first day of training, we launched into an 800 ft overcast and did airwork in the system. I would guess that more than 50% of my IR training was in IMC. I think it was extremely valuable, and much different than training under the hood in VFR conditions.
 
Did actual several times with my instructor,he enjoyed flying IFR.
 
I got a few hours in, but not as much as I would have liked. My first CFII would generally not allow it if there was any chance we could not get back in at home base. He was afraid of losing business if he had to call his next student and cancel because we were waiting for a ride from KPTK. :(

My finish-up guy (who sometimes posts here) had no issues like that, and took me on a great training flight in hard actual about a month before my checkride. There was in fact a better than 50% chance we would have to leave the plane at Pontiac and "thumb" a ride, but that was okay with him. As it turned out, we got in back home, though it was close, and I learned that day that it's often best to plan for a straight-in downwind landing, rather than to try a CTL to a wind-favored runway. ;)
 
I had a great CFII based out of FNT who took me into my first actual IMC experience during IFR training. It was a wider array of stratus clouds with moderate precipitation and turbulence. It was a great learning experience. I'm working with 8 instrument students now and am hoping some overcast conditions of the autumn season will bring some good actual IMC opportunities. Since July it's been clear and a million here nearly every day.

airdale said:
I will also speculate: Few deaths in IMC are due to not following IFR procedures.
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...
 
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SbestCFII said:
I already have more student interest than I can accommodate, since it's essentially my "fun" job. My "day" job pays all the bills. I'm more interested in finding out about other people that get to train in in actual since many of the people expressing interest talk about their previous CFIIs not being interested in training in actual. It seems that there are several commenters that did get at least some experience and that's great. I know from y own experience that what little actual I had (a couple) helped me greatly the first time I entered IMC without my CFII in the right seat.
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Okay. I'll roll with that.
I would prefer actual during training, but I don't think it's the crowne jewel.

I do wish you well.
 
steingar said:
You obviously have not visited my little corner of the world.
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Which is where? I've visited every corner of the US, plus most corners of neighboring countries.

Where should I be looking?
 
I am schedule to train with Scott [OBXFlight] this coming November and cant wait. I am not the typical transient pilot that comes in; I am fortunate to be local. I am looking forward to the training and real IMC.
 
SbestCFII said:
Getting my current IFR candidate ready for his check ride. Nothing like a relaxing flight on a nice Fall afternoon. (No TSR, just clouds and rain...and a few bumps).
View attachment 56199
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I was fortunate enough to get about 3-4 hours of actual during my training. Got to shoot an ILS with 500 foot ceilings and even some VOR A approaches in some real IMC. Really glad I got to experience the real thing with my instructor before my ride. I think if possible, it's imperative for an instructor to get their student some actual during training!
 
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