Instrument departure/approaches without radar service

FredFenster

FredFenster

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Apr 18, 2013
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Manitowoc, WI
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Greg L
So here's an interesting one. Class C airport (KGRB) has the following notam:

!GRB 05/246 (KGRB A1642/16) GRB SVC TAR/SSR OUT OF SERVICE DLY 1300-2200 1606011300-1606032200

So if I'm reading it correctly, tomorrow through Friday they won't have radar when the tower is open. How would instrument approaches be handled? Cleared to the initial fix then pilot reports at each fix/waypoint?
 
Everything will be timed. Most likely if they're busy, you'll show up and hold at designated fix. Could be FAF or outer marker. Aircraft will be overlapping with 1,000 ft seperation. You'll be given a time to cross the fix inbound. Successive aircraft will be either separated by time or if equipped DME. These times and distances will vary depending on what size aircraft is in front of you.
 
I don't really know, but wouldn't it be the same as nontowered procedures prior to Tower handoff? That is, cleared for the approach, one aircraft at a time?

It's gotta suck regardless if the traffic is heavy.
 
Guess I better bring an extra watch along tomorrow.. Supposed to take my instrument checkride out of GRB in the morning. I'm taking my cherokee to GRB tonight to beat out a line of early morning thunderstorms at are forecast to go through and then leave a 3500' ceiling after.
 
One of the POA contributors is a former GRB controller. I'm sure he'll be along sometime today and tell you specifically what to expect there in a radar outage.

Some parts of the country, if the outage lasts for awhile, they turn the airspace over to center. Looks like in this case, GRB is just going to handle it locally with non radar procedures.
 
And the answer in case anyone was still wondering.. The best way to describe it would be a large class D with some position reporting. IFR traffic above 3000 was being handled by Minneapolis Center (and maybe approach? I'm not sure) using radar from Minneapolis. Everything below that was VFR was talking on the tower frequency and giving position reports if staying within the class C airspace and altitude restricted to at or below 3,000.
 
How did the check ride go ?
 
muddy00 said:
How did the check ride go ?
Click to expand...

Passed the oral in the AM, failed the flight in the PM. Should've listened to the examiner's advice to reschedule the flight portion due to weather, but I sat around all day and waited for it to break up. Finally got up in the air around 3 in the afternoon and my brain went full retard on a DME arc right after takeoff. Dialed in 100* instead of 10*, I couldn't figure out why the needle wouldn't center. Then proceeded to blow timed turns in the hold with a partial panel, which was also part of the procedure turn for VOR-A. 3 for 1 f-up! Passed everything else. Went up with my instructor this morning and went over everything, of course no problems this time so he signed me off again and I'm rescheduled for first thing Tuesday morning.
 
Yikes, not a good day.

It seems quite a lot of folks blow their first attempt at an instrument checkride. Things come at you FAST, and mistakes seem to snowball. One is very quickly followed by another.

If it helps, I blew mine on a custom hold after making at least four mistakes. I started with hitting OBS mode on the GPS a microsecond too late, after autosequencing.
 
Some of the approaches there look like they meet the requirements for Timed Approaches. If the weather is above the highest circling minimum Timed Approaches could be run with most of them. If the Center has Radar coverage low enough to see aircraft in the initial and intermediate segements they can put aircraft on the final approach course outside the FAF using a 5 mile Radar interval and run Timed Approaches without "stacking" the aircraft at a holding fix. If the Center has coverage to the ground there, they might be able to just run it pretty much as usual. That could depend on staffing.
 
luvflyin said:
Some of the approaches there look like they meet the requirements for Timed Approaches. If the weather is above the highest circling minimum Timed Approaches could be run with most of them. If the Center has Radar coverage low enough to see aircraft in the initial and intermediate segements they can put aircraft on the final approach course outside the FAF using a 5 mile Radar interval and run Timed Approaches without "stacking" the aircraft at a holding fix. If the Center has coverage to the ground there, they might be able to just run it pretty much as usual. That could depend on staffing.
Click to expand...

...and training. Class C airports are not used to using timed approaches. I don't believe they are used very often except where there is both a tower and a non-radar approach control. KHLN comes to mind.
 
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