Instrument Check Ride - What exactly happens?

WDD

WDD

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
6,165
Location
Atlanta / Marietta
Display Name
Display name:
Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
I've pored over the June 2018 IR Airplane Airman Certification Standards.

It doesn't tell you however exactly how the check ride goes. Correct / add to these items if you could.

III A Clearance - Do you file, activate, get released, start the trip, and then cancel IFR and then the DPE takes over?
III B Holding - Will DPE give you unpublished hold and let you fly it, or will there be holds after going missed on approaches?

IV A Instrument Flight - DPE will have you climb, change headings, etc.?
IV B Unusual Attitude - DPE will have you to recover from unusual attitudes?

V A Intercepting Navigation and Arcs - Finding a VOR radial? Is flying a DME arc required? What exactly does "intercepting Navigation" entail?
V B Departure, En Route, Arrival
  • Fly a SID and a STAR?
  • Do I file an IFR plan with a SID? How do I fly a STAR if I've cancelled the IFR plan?
VI A Non Precision Approach
  • Fly one of the DPE's choosing?? LVP, LNAV, etc.?? Do I pick the one on the fly?
  • I assume I go missed? Always to a hold or will he vector me somewhere?
VI B Precision Approach -
  • I fly one precision approach, which is an ILS
  • I assume I go missed?
  • To a hold or will he vector me somewhere?
VI C Missed Approach - I assume covered by going missed on one of the two approaches. VI D Circling Approach - The third of the three approaches needed in the check ride?
VI E Landing - I assume that I land to a full stop on the third instrument approach and check ride is over?

VII A Lost Coms - What exactly will DPE do for this? Ask what to do? Fly last instructions, squawk 7600, land as soon as practicable, etc.
VII C In Op Instruments on Approach - DPE is going to fail the vacuum pump, Attitude Indicator, etc. while I'm on an approach? Just checking. I've not done that drill yet on the approach.

What else am I missing?
 
None of us can answer your questions, because all of them can be answered "yes" or "no" or "other" depending on the examiner. The things you have to do are in the ACS. Whether the DPE allows you to pick the approaches or not, or has you call ATC or not, or vectors you themselves or not, or requires you to land after each approach or not, etc., are all up to them.

WDD said:
What else am I missing?
Click to expand...

You need to ask your CFI what the DPE you'll be using likely expects (or of course, ask other recent applicants that went to that DPE). That's the only person who's going to know.
 
RussR said:
None of us can answer your questions, because all of them can be answered "yes" or "no" or "other" depending on the examiner. The things you have to do are in the ACS. Whether the DPE allows you to pick the approaches or not, or has you call ATC or not, or vectors you themselves or not, or requires you to land after each approach or not, etc., are all up to them.

You need to ask your CFI what the DPE you'll be using likely expects (or of course, ask other recent applicants that went to that DPE). That's the only person who's going to know.
Click to expand...

Ah - didn't know there was that much latitude with the DPE. Good to know, as well as good to know I need to get the "profile" of the DPE the CFII would recommend.
 
WDD said:
Ah - didn't know there was that much latitude with the DPE. Good to know, as well as good to know I need to get the "profile" of the DPE the CFII would recommend.
Click to expand...

They do, as far as the flow of things go. Compare it to your Private checkride, the DPE had a lot of latitude there as well. You probably planned a XC flight somewhere - how far did your examiner make you go? Did you get ATC service or not? Did you file a VFR flight plan or not? Did they do the engine failure task as part of the XC, or between other maneuvers? Was the hood work part of the XC or its own separate task? Etc.

On the IFR checkride, so much of how it goes depends on where you are and the ATC services and approaches available near there. Many examiners will try to structure it so that the three approaches flow logically into one another with minimal overlap of tasks, but sometimes that isn't possible. One that I know of in this area tells you to pick the approaches you're going to fly - which has the side benefit of making sure you get into the ACS and know what you need to accomplish on each one.
 
I can tell u what happens on an instrument check ride, but then I'd have to..............well, u know
 
Where I did my IFR training, we basically trained like the checkride. Take off from grass strip, call approach and tell them we are an IFR training flight and that we'd like to do a vectored ILS followed by the published missed, followed by the VOR-A, followed by the RNAV. Approach and tower were used to the scenario but on occasion mixed it up a little by giving us something unexpected, which I liked. When I did my actual checkride 4 months later, thanks covid BS, I had to fly 3 hours with another instructor and get signed off again. He had a routine for IFR training, which was basically the checkride. Same thing though, a preplanned DME arc its, followed by RNAV, followed by VOR approach. The hold was accomplished in the publish missed of one of the first two approaches.
 
My ride did NOT involve actually filing and beginning a real instrument trip.

We discussed a potential trip - a LOT.

But after that it was VMC condx, and foggles. We flew the departure out of FFZ, did a DME Arc, three different approaches to Casa Grande, then partial panel work and unusual attitude recovery.

YMMV.
 
My checkride was pre ACS but we didnt file. I did the plan, I forget if we flew to the first checkpoint or not. Did some maneuvers to get to a VOR. Called ATC on the way there. Put in request. My hold was over the VOR and we flew the VOR approach. 0 second outbound leg, 1m30s inbound. Yeah windy. Did a LOC and did an ILS. Circle to land on one of them, and then back to home base.
 
My instrument checkride went something like:

Plan a trip to somewhere about two hours away.
Explain my plan. Explain how the pilot (currency, medical, etc...) is prepared for the trip. Explain how the plane is prepared for the trip.
Explain what I'd do for lost comms, etc and how I would get onto the approach at the desti.
Do preflight and answer some systems questions.

The examiner pretty much played ATC from that point. Gave me a clearance for the beginning of my flight. Took off, flying the ODP (which had a hold, got that out out of the way). Then "diverted" back into an approach at the departure airport (full up with procedure turn,etc...). Then on the missed fom that go out and do some headings and VOR intercepts. Go partial panel and do some unusal attitudes. Go find the IAF and fly an RNAV approach partial panel. Go missed from that and go fly another approach. Circle to land. Land. Shake hands. Swap certificate for a temporary. Get my picture taken.
 
WDD said:
I've pored over the June 2018 IR Airplane Airman Certification Standards.

It doesn't tell you however exactly how the check ride goes. Correct / add to these items if you could.

III A Clearance - Do you file, activate, get released, start the trip, and then cancel IFR and then the DPE takes over?
We went vfr. The dpe gave me a "clearance" that I read back to him based on the flight plan he had me do. He then told the tower we would be departing to the west and then be returning for approaches.
III B Holding - Will DPE give you unpublished hold and let you fly it, or will there be holds after going missed on approaches?
There is a published hold on the airway just west of the airport. The trip he gave me to plan basically has to use this airway. I intercepted the airway and then when reaching the hold he again played atc and assigned it as published.

IV A Instrument Flight - DPE will have you climb, change headings, etc.?
This was evaluated during the entire flight, not as a standalone task
IV B Unusual Attitude - DPE will have you to recover from unusual attitudes?
Yes
V A Intercepting Navigation and Arcs - Finding a VOR radial? Is flying a DME arc required? What exactly does "intercepting Navigation" entail?
V B Departure, En Route, Arrival
I tracked the vor outbound from spi, and also did a vor approach; that satisfied that requirement. He had me do an unpublished arc. I don't think they're supposed to do that, but like everyone says, be prepared for anything.
  • Fly a SID and a STAR?
  • Do I file an IFR plan with a SID? How do I fly a STAR if I've cancelled the IFR plan?
No SID/STAR at either of my airports, but we did discuss them in the oral.
VI A Non Precision Approach
  • Fly one of the DPE's choosing?? LVP, LNAV, etc.?? Do I pick the one on the fly?
  • I assume I go missed? Always to a hold or will he vector me somewhere?
He chose the approaches and then gave me time to familiarize myself with them before we flew. Atc gave us alternate missed instructions on all the approaches.
VI B Precision Approach -
  • I fly one precision approach, which is an ILS
  • I assume I go missed?
  • To a hold or will he vector me somewhere?
The ils is the one I landed on.
VI C Missed Approach - I assume covered by going missed on one of the two approaches. VI D Circling Approach - The third of the three approaches needed in the check ride?
VI E Landing - I assume that I land to a full stop on the third instrument approach and check ride is over?
Yes
VII A Lost Coms - What exactly will DPE do for this? Ask what to do? Fly last instructions, squawk 7600, land as soon as practicable, etc.
We discussed this in the oral, but it was not part of the practical.
VII C In Op Instruments on Approach - DPE is going to fail the vacuum pump, Attitude Indicator, etc. while I'm on an approach? Just checking. I've not done that drill yet on the approach.
Yes, simulated vacuum failure on the ils. Easy... load the approach in the gps and you have current track and desired track. Trim to airspeed, power for descent rate, keep the wings level with the TC. Who needs gyros?
What else am I missing?
He "failed" my tablet for one of the approaches. I bought a chart book just for this case. I ripped out the chart and clamped it to the "dead" tablet with a binder clip.
Click to expand...
My checkride experiences in red. YMMV.

Eta....we flew all three approaches back-to-back, very much like training, just much higher pressure. Probably the hardest flying I've ever done. I have a mnemonic/ checklist and made sure I got everything done:

Atis
Instruments (check DG against compass and verify altimeter setting)
Radios/ radials (tune-identify-twist cdi's, tune comm radios)

CDI source (vor/gps...a physical button in the airplane I trained in)
Approach briefed
Landing checklist (gumps)
Monitoring (ils marker audio/ gps in correct approach mode)

My cfii has a different one he uses. Regardless it helps to have a set way of doing things to make sure nothing gets missed. And don't forget you can always ask for a delay vector... even from dpe "atc".
 
Last edited:
I used the ACS as my study guide, made sure I was able to do and answer any questions for each item. We simulated filing, then he acted as the controller while I did my approaches. It was pretty laid back, but spent a lot of time prepping.
 
Rgbeard said:
My ride did NOT involve actually filing and beginning a real instrument trip.

We discussed a potential trip - a LOT.

But after that it was VMC condx, and foggles. We flew the departure out of FFZ, did a DME Arc, three different approaches to Casa Grande, then partial panel work and unusual attitude recovery.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
Mine was 2 approaches (no arc), partial panel, unusual attitude and then circle to land full stop. However, tower sequenced us behind someone else so the CTL was a fair bit modified.
 
Youtube is your friend.
 
The DPE will try and overload you w/tasks to see when mistakes start occurring.
 
Mxfarm said:
The DPE will try and overload you w/tasks to see when mistakes start occurring.
Click to expand...
I have no problem ignoring people or telling them to be quiet. I’m sure that would be respected by the DPE
 
WDD said:
I have no problem ignoring people or telling them to be quiet. I’m sure that would be respected by the DPE
Click to expand...
For me, the attempt to overload was task saturation rather than conversation. Back to back to back approaches with cascading equipment failure. Don't forget you can ask for a hold or delay vectors if you need a breather.
 
I'm sure it varies greatly by dpe. I wouldn't say mine tried to overload me or trick me in any way. Back-to-back approaches are hard just by nature, but I had done that MANY times with my ii by the time I got to the checkride, so it felt somewhat normal. A big part of that of course is good preparation by my ii.
 
WDD said:
I have no problem ignoring people or telling them to be quiet. I’m sure that would be respected by the DPE
Click to expand...

Even though it is an IRA checkride...you ARE the PIC (clarify at the start) and 91.3 comes into play. On my IR ride way back...as I was setting up for TOC towards the initial VOR, the examiner started fiddling with knobs on the radios. I noticed it and told him he could get out now if he felt the need to fiddle with MY airplane. He sat there the rest of the ride with his hands in his lap. All part of the test to see if I could handle distractions, I suppose. But, I felt that sternly exercising 91.3 was preferable. We laughed about it on the ground (it WAS what he was doing to see how I'd react) and walked out with the temp.

My school was part 141; an IFR flight plan was filed under the DPE's name, and the comments were "IFR Checkride...enroute via plan to KTTN, requesting ILS and ADF approaches, missed back to approach VOR to home field" from there a PT in lieu of a hold, VOR into my home field, he failed the instruments, did the missed with failed gauges, back to the hold for the missed, restart the approach, then half way there, timed turn (still needle ball airspeed) to a non cardinal heading...which I nailed exactly according to the compass...and he said take the hood off...and let's go home.

This was in the days of the PTS versus ACS. In retrospect, was a license to learn how to fly real IFR, part of the journey, not the destination in and of itself.
 
-This- while I'm shooting the approach... o_Oo_O

BryanAV8R said:
Even though it is an IRA checkride...you ARE the PIC (clarify at the start) and 91.3 comes into play. On my IR ride way back...as I was setting up for TOC towards the initial VOR, the examiner started fiddling with knobs on the radios. I noticed it and told him he could get out now if he felt the need to fiddle with MY airplane. He sat there the rest of the ride with his hands in his lap. All part of the test to see if I could handle distractions, I suppose. But, I felt that sternly exercising 91.3 was preferable. We laughed about it on the ground (it WAS what he was doing to see how I'd react) and walked out with the temp.

My school was part 141; an IFR flight plan was filed under the DPE's name, and the comments were "IFR Checkride...enroute via plan to KTTN, requesting ILS and ADF approaches, missed back to approach VOR to home field" from there a PT in lieu of a hold, VOR into my home field, he failed the instruments, did the missed with failed gauges, back to the hold for the missed, restart the approach, then half way there, timed turn (still needle ball airspeed) to a non cardinal heading...which I nailed exactly according to the compass...and he said take the hood off...and let's go home.

This was in the days of the PTS versus ACS. In retrospect, was a license to learn how to fly real IFR, part of the journey, not the destination in and of itself.
Click to expand...
 
Do read to much into the test. You depart VFR on a simulated clearance and pick up ATC traffic service. You will do 3 different approaches with a combination of elements ~ procedure turn, hold, missed approach, circle to land, and partial panel. The unusual attitude will precede the partial panel approach. The examiner may simulate an DME arc if one is not available, but must will just discuss in the oral. Lost comm will be discussed with during oral or as a distraction during the flight. (What would you do if you lost comm now?)

With loss of ground nav aids, variation between DPEs is narrowing.
 
BryanAV8R said:
Even though it is an IRA checkride...you ARE the PIC (clarify at the start) and 91.3 comes into play. On my IR ride way back...as I was setting up for TOC towards the initial VOR, the examiner started fiddling with knobs on the radios. I noticed it and told him he could get out now if he felt the need to fiddle with MY airplane. He sat there the rest of the ride with his hands in his lap. All part of the test to see if I could handle distractions, I suppose. But, I felt that sternly exercising 91.3 was preferable. We laughed about it on the ground (it WAS what he was doing to see how I'd react) and walked out with the temp.
Click to expand...
We used to have an examiner in the area who was known for shutting off the fuel valve for one engine on the twin during takeoff…the engine would quit at a relatively low altitude. I’m glad I never did a checkride with him, as (per my piston twin takeoff briefing) it probably would’ve resulted in a landing on the gravel road next to the airport. And it would’ve gone downhill from there.
 
Your CFII should be covering everything in the ACS, and you should want to be able to everything and more. Going on what you hear a DPE does on a checkride can bite you very quick. Some of the better DPEs know that students share all this info and so do the CFIs, so the DPE will switch it as much as they can. Perfect example word got out that the DPE was getting into a routine of diverting and shooting an ILS to airport A, so during a checkride the DPE had a diversion to Airport B. The student was so stumped he failed the checkride because he had it his head he was going to airport A and completely choked not knowing what to do.
 
Develop your plan that encompasses all of the required tasks from the ACS. Make it sequential and efficient, logically sequenced. Hand the chronological checklist to your DPE and have a copy for yourself, to check off as the tasks are accomplished. Tell him this is the plan. He’ll appreciate the forethought and planning, you’ll already know the plan, and execute.
 
kep5niner said:
Develop your plan that encompasses all of the required tasks from the ACS. Make it sequential and efficient, logically sequenced. Hand the chronological checklist to your DPE and have a copy for yourself, to check off as the tasks are accomplished. Tell him this is the plan. He’ll appreciate the forethought and planning, you’ll already know the plan, and execute.
Click to expand...
Do you go to a restaurant and hand a recipe to the chef? o_O Let the DPE drive this process. He or she has had many applicants. You have had but one or two examiners.
 
Nate, I assure you I have had dozens of examiners in my career. In the civilian world, that advice has a success rate of 100%.
 
It surprises me that an applicant with such audacity as to dictate the flow of a checkride to an examiner would have a snowballs chance in hell. Just saying.
 
Quite the contraire, the feedback from examiners was they wished all examinees showed up as prepared. It sets the tone, and sets you up for success.
 
Last edited:
kep5niner said:
Hand the chronological checklist to your DPE and have a copy for yourself, to check off as the tasks are accomplished. Tell him this is the plan. He’ll appreciate the forethought and planning, you’ll already know the plan, and execute.
Click to expand...
I have a suspicion that this strategy works great until it doesn't. In other words, the outcome is rather binary. :)
 
asicer said:
I have a suspicion that this strategy works great until it doesn't. In other words, the outcome is rather binary. :)
Click to expand...
kep5niner said:
In the civilian world, that advice has a success rate of 100%.
Click to expand...

From CSEL, CMEL, Airplane Instrument, ATP-ME - so far so good. I’m not trying to blow sunshine up anyone’s a**, just providing input to increase the success rate of an examinee looking for feedback.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top