In training pilots, how do you handle turbulence?

[WannFly]

So this question is for pilots in training, or when u were in trainig... how did u handle turbulence? Had an encounter yesterday and didn't go well at all....
It was 015 OVC and we planned to do some go around, possibly touch and go stuff, we went to a different airport since the home base had lot of cross wind, the 40 mins I was up there it was like sitting in a boat on a big Lake on a windy had and I had very hard time doing anything...let alone touch and go..once I did a 747 size downwind to base turn , everytime I wanted to bank it seemed like something is wrong and it was going out of control. After landing, CFI told me it was a mild one...not even moderate ... very disappointed with my performance .

Some of you know I have a fear of fall and it took me a while to get adjusted to banks, seems everything came rushing back when we were rocking all over the place, or at least it seemed that way. Getting pretty comfortable with ground reference maneuvers, S turns, turns around a point, banks etc and I thought I was making good progress, yesterday kinda felt like I took 3 step back and I am back to square one ....
My left hand was sore for an hour after I landed, definitely left an impression on the yoke...

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[rk911]

if this was your first flight with moderate turbulence I can assure you it will get better. just like you got used to banking the plane (have you done steep turns yet?) you'll get used to turbulence. it ain't fun and I avoid flying on turbulent days but sometimes it's just there. but you'll get used to it.

 

[jordane93]

Ride the waves and don't death grip the yoke. Expect altitude and heading deviations.

 

[kgruber]

Make sure your seat belt is tight. Relax, people pay for thrills.

 

[WannFly]

if this was your first flight with moderate turbulence I can assure you it will get better. just like you got used to banking the plane (have you done steep turns yet?) you'll get used to turbulence. it ain't fun and I avoid flying on turbulent days but sometimes it's just there. but you'll get used to it.

havent done steep turns yet, CFI says he will introduce me to it soon, in a slower fashion .. maybe get to 35-40-45 over time. once i have successfully done something repeated number of times, i dont worry about it anymore, its like .. well i did it before and it didnt hurt me, so what the heck, lets do it. i dont know if it was moderate or not, CFI says mild, there were about 15 KT wind, but really rough. first exposure to this so close to the ground, usually its lot smoother up there and some hiccups when we enter downwind, but this was 40 mins in pattern altitude. i ad no problem doing ground ref maneuvers in smooth air

 

[WannFly]

Ride the waves and don't death grip the yoke. Expect altitude and heading deviations.

yeah that was another thing that later in my flight review i uncovered, i was probably over controlling everything, trying to fix any altitude / course deviation the moment they occurred

 

[coloradobluesky]

Slow down to Va and correct for altitude excursions is about all you can do for turbulence. You can't adjust the flight controls in a way that will make it less bouncy. Tighten the throttle lock and hang on for the ride. You could try a different altitude. Talk to ATC and get and give a PIREP. No one really likes turbulence, even experienced pilots get tired of it.

 

[MAKG1]

For LIGHT turbulence, which is what this sounds like, the solution is just to know where you want the plane, and put it there. Not much more to it than that. It's rather like driving over a pothole. If you're flying like a bat out of hell, you can slow down below maneuvering speed, but you won't break the plane in light turbulence at any speed in the green arc.

It becomes moderate when the airspeed varies. Then, you can knock stuff around, and maneuvering speed is important.

At some point, you make the transition from turning the yoke and watching the plane react, to anticipating desired reaction and moving the yoke to make it happen. That's when light turbulence becomes irrelevant.

It may be smoother for your passengers if you correct yaw deviations first (with rudder) while flying straight.

 

[RyanB]

No different than driving over gravel. Relax and enjoy the view.

Also, don't forget to turn the seatbelt sign on.

 

[mscard88]

Ride the waves and don't death grip the yoke. Expect altitude and heading deviations.

Yup. Can't have ideal flying conditions all the time ya know. Mother Nature doesn't allow that.

 

[Cluemeister]

Was it an afternoon lesson? I remember one lesson I took at 3 pm that was just like that. We were getting tossed around like crazy, and the CFI says "oh a little bumpy today". Meanwhile I'm bending the stick with a death grip and trying not to look concerned that we will be on an NTSB accident report. In hindsight, not a big deal, but as a low time student, it seemed like there was no way to keep the plane in the air. I still don't like bumps, but it does get more comfortable over time.

 

[WannFly]

Was it an afternoon lesson? I remember one lesson I took at 3 pm that was just like that. We were getting tossed around like crazy, and the CFI says "oh a little bumpy today". Meanwhile I'm bending the stick with a death grip and trying not to look concerned that we will be on an NTSB accident report. In hindsight, not a big deal, but as a low time student, it seemed like there was no way to keep the plane in the air. I still don't like bumps, but it does get more comfortable over time.

it was morning... 11 AM .. guess I will fly a bunch more till I get used to this nonsense... windy days around here are very easy to come by.. like 3-4 time a week

 

[iamtheari]

I took my entire PPL check ride in moderate turbulence, which really made maintaining altitude within PTS standards a challenge and made the hood work a little nauseating. I read somewhere that keeping your feet on the rudder pedals will help dampen out the uncommanded yawing motions. And I remember a thousand sample test questions that teach you to maintain a straight and level attitude in turbulence rather than fighting to over-control the plane to maintain altitude and heading, which will vary but average out to where you started.

My main advice is to practice in turbulence and then take your test in smooth air.

 

[James331]

Slow to VA, keep calm, and carry on.

 

[LongRoadBob]

havent done steep turns yet, CFI says he will introduce me to it soon, in a slower fashion .. maybe get to 35-40-45 over time. once i have successfully done something repeated number of times, i dont worry about it anymore, its like .. well i did it before and it didnt hurt me, so what the heck, lets do it. i dont know if it was moderate or not, CFI says mild, there were about 15 KT wind, but really rough. first exposure to this so close to the ground, usually its lot smoother up there and some hiccups when we enter downwind, but this was 40 mins in pattern altitude. i ad no problem doing ground ref maneuvers in smooth air

You are ahead of me on pattern flying, I haven't even done s-turns, but my previous flight my instructor had me doing 45 deg. turns. I'm just mentioning this to maybe save you some surprises, at least how I experienced them.

Up until then I had done 10-30 deg. banks, and it went fine with level turns, descending, climbing. Then he said "ok let's do some 45 degree" and it was a bit different. I had no real prep on the briefing before we went up, and as I was entering the turn he said a few times "you have to bring the nose up!"

At one point he "helped" on the yoke, bringing it way back and I felt a lot of G force on my head and body. It was only after, when I was home again that I understood my misconception...that in a steep bank like that when he says "nose up" he means back on the yoke...and again it took a lot of muscle to get it where it needed to be. My confusion was that in a more shallow turn "up" is still kind of "up" with reference to the ground, and that was what made me crystal clear that even in shallow turns I should have been thinking not with ground reference but with reference to the bank, because if became really obvious to me that in the 45 up is up relative to the plane. That I needed to pull a good deal more back on the yoke, and up is at a 45 degree angle to "normally what up is" that I was pulling back to get more into the centrifugal part of the lift? (Maybe I am saying this wrong, ignore that part unless someone confirms).

Couple of questions (if it is ok, I don't mean to derail your thread but from reading other posts I think you are also interested in steeper banks?) I wondered if the g forces I felt were because of my going to adjust...do you feel that force when the bank is done correctly? Also, do you usually trim when doing a 45 deg. bank, or maybe it depends on how far you are turning? So if only a 90 heading turn it isn't worth trimming since I beleive coming out of a bank like that you have to pretty quickly adjust again?

As far as turbulence, I can't judge how my experience matched yours, we had one day I felt it was pretty turbulent, and buffeting was happening but I did focus on having a light touch, letting the plane settle after each wave of it, and trying to wait to see if I needed to correct. It wasn't pleasant. I suspect it was actually pretty light turbulence, but like you it felt like a lot more to me. Some days later we called off a lesson because as he put it "you won't be able to practice much except fighting the turbulence" which was fine for me as I'm still working on nausea issues.

Good luck to you!

 

[WannFly]

You are ahead of me on pattern flying, I haven't even done s-turns, but my previous flight my instructor had me doing 45 deg. turns. I'm just mentioning this to maybe save you some surprises, at least how I experienced them.

Up until then I had done 10-30 deg. banks, and it went fine with level turns, descending, climbing. Then he said "ok let's do some 45 degree" and it was a bit different. I had no real prep on the briefing before we went up, and as I was entering the turn he said a few times "you have to bring the nose up!"

At one point he "helped" on the yoke, bringing it way back and I felt a lot of G force on my head and body. It was only after, when I was home again that I understood my misconception...that in a steep bank like that when he says "nose up" he means back on the yoke...and again it took a lot of muscle to get it where it needed to be. My confusion was that in a more shallow turn "up" is still kind of "up" with reference to the ground, and that was what made me crystal clear that even in shallow turns I should have been thinking not with ground reference but with reference to the bank, because if became really obvious to me that in the 45 up is up relative to the plane. That I needed to pull a good deal more back on the yoke, and up is at a 45 degree angle to "normally what up is" that I was pulling back to get more into the centrifugal part of the lift? (Maybe I am saying this wrong, ignore that part unless someone confirms).

Couple of questions (if it is ok, I don't mean to derail your thread but from reading other posts I think you are also interested in steeper banks?) I wondered if the g forces I felt were because of my going to adjust...do you feel that force when the bank is done correctly? Also, do you usually trim when doing a 45 deg. bank, or maybe it depends on how far you are turning? So if only a 90 heading turn it isn't worth trimming since I beleive coming out of a bank like that you have to pretty quickly adjust again?

As far as turbulence, I can't judge how my experience matched yours, we had one day I felt it was pretty turbulent, and buffeting was happening but I did focus on having a light touch, letting the plane settle after each wave of it, and trying to wait to see if I needed to correct. It wasn't pleasant. I suspect it was actually pretty light turbulence, but like you it felt like a lot more to me. Some days later we called off a lesson because as he put it "you won't be able to practice much except fighting the turbulence" which was fine for me as I'm still working on nausea issues.

Good luck to you!

Don't know about 45 bank, haven't done it, so I will let someone else chime in, but about the trim, I have heard 2 sides of the story, some say why bother since u will be at 45 for 30 seconds, some videos , one from m08.com I think showed to put a trim on the turn.

It's gonna be 25G35 today, not sure if I am flying, but if the instructure is open to it, I will go up and see how that feels like.

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[LongRoadBob]

Don't know about 45 bank, haven't done it, so I will let someone else chime in, but about the trim, I have heard 2 sides of the story, some say why bother since u will be at 45 for 30 seconds, some videos , one from m08.com I think showed to put a trim on the turn.

It's gonna be 25G35 today, not sure if I am flying, but if the instructure is open to it, I will go up and see how that feels like.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

The questions were out to the experienced pilots really. I just thought it might be a help to tell you my own experience with steeper banks. Of course, any conclusions or thoughts other than how it felt I would take with a grain of salt since I am also a student. At least until or if someone with more experience either corrects or affirms.

I think you are right though about the duration determining if you trim. I'm sure there are different thoughts on it, but I was mainly thinking that 90 degree change of heading or less, if you are trimmed for cruise, etc. it might be more job to trim, then have to retrim back again. I'm just not sure.

 

[MAKG1]

You don't fly steep turns much IRL, and when you do, they aren't the same. They are a training and testing exercise.

If you can easily avoid losing 100 feet around the circle, then it's your call. Otherwise, I'd rather strongly recommend setting up the airplane for precision flight. That's what trim is really about, not that old BS about preventing fatigue.

 

[champ driver]

You are ahead of me on pattern flying, I haven't even done s-turns, but my previous flight my instructor had me doing 45 deg. turns. I'm just mentioning this to maybe save you some surprises, at least how I experienced them.

Up until then I had done 10-30 deg. banks, and it went fine with level turns, descending, climbing. Then he said "ok let's do some 45 degree" and it was a bit different. I had no real prep on the briefing before we went up, and as I was entering the turn he said a few times "you have to bring the nose up!"

At one point he "helped" on the yoke, bringing it way back and I felt a lot of G force on my head and body. It was only after, when I was home again that I understood my misconception...that in a steep bank like that when he says "nose up" he means back on the yoke...and again it took a lot of muscle to get it where it needed to be. My confusion was that in a more shallow turn "up" is still kind of "up" with reference to the ground, and that was what made me crystal clear that even in shallow turns I should have been thinking not with ground reference but with reference to the bank, because if became really obvious to me that in the 45 up is up relative to the plane. That I needed to pull a good deal more back on the yoke, and up is at a 45 degree angle to "normally what up is" that I was pulling back to get more into the centrifugal part of the lift? (Maybe I am saying this wrong, ignore that part unless someone confirms).

Couple of questions (if it is ok, I don't mean to derail your thread but from reading other posts I think you are also interested in steeper banks?) I wondered if the g forces I felt were because of my going to adjust...do you feel that force when the bank is done correctly? Also, do you usually trim when doing a 45 deg. bank, or maybe it depends on how far you are turning? So if only a 90 heading turn it isn't worth trimming since I beleive coming out of a bank like that you have to pretty quickly adjust again?

As far as turbulence, I can't judge how my experience matched yours, we had one day I felt it was pretty turbulent, and buffeting was happening but I did focus on having a light touch, letting the plane settle after each wave of it, and trying to wait to see if I needed to correct. It wasn't pleasant. I suspect it was actually pretty light turbulence, but like you it felt like a lot more to me. Some days later we called off a lesson because as he put it "you won't be able to practice much except fighting the turbulence" which was fine for me as I'm still working on nausea issues.

Good luck to you!

Go back to your training manual, whatever one you're using and look up load factor charts for steep turns.
You'll see that as the bank angle steepens, the load factor increases. At a 45 degree bank it's about 1.3 G's, at a 60 degree bank it goes up to 2 G's. That is for maintaining level flight, or the same altitude. I know that you felt more G in that turn than you were used to, but it really wasn't that much, and that G loading you feel in a steep turn is normal.

For steep turns you'll have to increase the back pressure to maintain altitude as you roll into the turn, once you find the bank angle you want and are holding altitude, hold that amount of back pressure throughout the turn. If you roll in trim at the start of the turn, you'll have to roll out that same amount of trim as you roll out of the turn. That can be a lot of extra work, especially for a short duration turn. Your decision on whether to use it.
Have your instructor establish a steep turn for you and look out over the cowling in front of you. See where the horizon cuts across the cowl, remember that angle and exact point. Use a cowl seam or rivet if there's anything like that to help remember that point. Now hold that point and angle all the way around the turn, making small adjustments if necessary, and quick looks at the instruments as back ups to see if you are holding altitude and the correct bank angle.

If you are in a side by side seat plane, there will be some adjustment to that spot on the cowl from left turns to right turns, not so in a tandem seat plane.
Try that for a start, let us know how it comes out.

 

[Timbeck2]

... Have your instructor establish a steep turn for you and look out over the cowling in front of you. See where the horizon cuts across the cowl, remember that angle and exact point. Use a cowl seam or rivet if there's anything like that to help remember that point. Now hold that point and angle all the way around the turn, making small adjustments if necessary, and quick looks at the instruments as back ups to see if you are holding altitude and the correct bank angle.

If you are in a side by side seat plane, there will be some adjustment to that spot on the cowl from left turns to right turns, not so in a tandem seat plane.
Try that for a start, let us know how it comes out.

Unless he's training in a mountainous area where that method is dang near impossible.

<--- trained in such an area

 

[labbadabba]

Don't know about 45 bank, haven't done it, so I will let someone else chime in, but about the trim, I have heard 2 sides of the story, some say why bother since u will be at 45 for 30 seconds, some videos , one from m08.com I think showed to put a trim on the turn.

It's gonna be 25G35 today, not sure if I am flying, but if the instructure is open to it, I will go up and see how that feels like.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

25G35? Nope.

As for steep turns, I took m0a's approach. Add three turns of trim when establishing the turn and maybe a tiny goose of power, 50rpm. The extra power helps make up for the loss of vertical lift. After that, it's just about staying coordinated and managing the sight picture. Small excursions in the horizon I can adjust with slight adjustment of the rudders and keep the ailerons neutral. However if you get large departure from your sight picture do not use your rudder to 'cheat,' you'll end up rather uncoordinated in a hurry.

 

[MAKG1]

Unless he's training in a mountainous area where that method is dang near impossible.

<--- trained in such an area

Umm, so did I.

You can interpolate the horizon across or even through mountain ranges very easily.

Not even close to impossible. Not even difficult.

 

[Timbeck2]

To hold a rivet on the horizon as described doesn't work in mountainous terrain. My only comment was one can't do what was described as easily where the horizon changes constantly. The person I responded to said nothing about interpolation. Obviously its possible because a lot of us have done it; it just wasn't done as described.

 

[bobmrg]

So this question is for pilots in training, or when u were in trainig... how did u handle turbulence? Had an encounter yesterday and didn't go well at all....
It was 015 OVC and we planned to do some go around, possibly touch and go stuff, we went to a different airport since the home base had lot of cross wind, the 40 mins I was up there it was like sitting in a boat on a big Lake on a windy had and I had very hard time doing anything...let alone touch and go..once I did a 747 size downwind to base turn , everytime I wanted to bank it seemed like something is wrong and it was going out of control. After landing, CFI told me it was a mild one...not even moderate ... very disappointed with my performance .

Some of you know I have a fear of fall and it took me a while to get adjusted to banks, seems everything came rushing back when we were rocking all over the place, or at least it seemed that way. Getting pretty comfortable with ground reference maneuvers, S turns, turns around a point, banks etc and I thought I was making good progress, yesterday kinda felt like I took 3 step back and I am back to square one ....
My left hand was sore for an hour after I landed, definitely left an impression on the yoke...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

The purpose of a flight lesson is to gain knowledge and experience. Learning stops when the student is uncomfortable. Abort the lesson and come back another day. I was never so strapped for cash or flying time that I felt it necessary to sit in the right seat and have my words bounce off of the person in the left seat.

Bob

 

[LongRoadBob]

Go back to your training manual, whatever one you're using and look up load factor charts for steep turns.
You'll see that as the bank angle steepens, the load factor increases. At a 45 degree bank it's about 1.3 G's, at a 60 degree bank it goes up to 2 G's. That is for maintaining level flight, or the same altitude. I know that you felt more G in that turn than you were used to, but it really wasn't that much, and that G loading you feel in a steep turn is normal.

For steep turns you'll have to increase the back pressure to maintain altitude as you roll into the turn, once you find the bank angle you want and are holding altitude, hold that amount of back pressure throughout the turn. If you roll in trim at the start of the turn, you'll have to roll out that same amount of trim as you roll out of the turn. That can be a lot of extra work, especially for a short duration turn. Your decision on whether to use it.
Have your instructor establish a steep turn for you and look out over the cowling in front of you. See where the horizon cuts across the cowl, remember that angle and exact point. Use a cowl seam or rivet if there's anything like that to help remember that point. Now hold that point and angle all the way around the turn, making small adjustments if necessary, and quick looks at the instruments as back ups to see if you are holding altitude and the correct bank angle.

If you are in a side by side seat plane, there will be some adjustment to that spot on the cowl from left turns to right turns, not so in a tandem seat plane.
Try that for a start, let us know how it comes out.

Thanks for that! In shallower turns I have (fairly) the sight, the horizon ok, and adjust. It was just that as the nose dropped I was wanting to get it back up by doing the wrong thing...as you point out here.

The point about trimming was right on for me to.

And also thanks to labbadabba for the other points.

 

[MAKG1]

To hold a rivet on the horizon as described doesn't work in mountainous terrain. My only comment was one can't do what was described as easily where the horizon changes constantly. The person I responded to said nothing about interpolation. Obviously its possible because a lot of us have done it; it just wasn't done as described.

The horizon is not where the mountains meet the sky. If you follow the actual horizon, it works just fine.

Using the wrong definition for the "horizon" will make all phases of flight more difficult. The mountains are irrelevant for flight unless you are trying to fly over them or deal with their winds. All the maneuvers don't care.

 

[Timbeck2]

If I followed the actual horizon, I'd had to see through the mountains. We obviously disagree on this. I'm happy to leave it at that.

 

[rtk11]

To the OP (WannFly) - first, you have to trust that the plane WANTS to fly. Yes, turbulence will move you around, but you have to mentally keep telling yourself that you are Pilot In COMMAND (PIC), so you will direct how the plane is flying.

The next thing to remember is that you don't want to get "behind" in the airplane. When it's turbulent, you need to be on your game. That means, looking outside and scanning the instruments. If you get blown around, develop the knack to keep the yoke moving so that you fly (mostly) level. You've got to react faster than the plane (in slow, controlled motions of the yoke) to help counteract gusts. Not to sound all "Star Wars" on you and give you Jedi training, but you should learn to feel and "sense" the airplane, not use your eyes an instruments to determine your actions. Your eyes are used for looking outside so you can determine level flight.

As for steep turns - again, nothing to worry about. Yes, it's a little unusual to be at that bank angle. But the plane is flying, and you are PIC! If you're looking out the side window, you're doing it wrong. You need to be looking out the front window, focusing on the horizon or other horizontal plane that you can use to keep the aircraft flying a level path in the steep turn. You'll need to glance at your instruments from time to time to ensure you have adequate airspeed, are coordinated, and have the correct bank angle, but then look outside again and focus on that predetermined point to keep the aircraft in that level path.\

It's always hard the first time. Even the second or third time. But you will get "used" to it (note I said "used to it", and not "comfortable with it.") This applies for turbulent flight, steep turns, and stalls (which I think you've done?)

 

[yakdriver]

To the OP. I'm curious. How many hours do you have right now? Don

 

[WannFly]

To the OP. I'm curious. How many hours do you have right now? Don

14.6 hobbs

 

[WannFly]

To the OP (WannFly) - first, you have to trust that the plane WANTS to fly. Yes, turbulence will move you around, but you have to mentally keep telling yourself that you are Pilot In COMMAND (PIC), so you will direct how the plane is flying.

The next thing to remember is that you don't want to get "behind" in the airplane. When it's turbulent, you need to be on your game. That means, looking outside and scanning the instruments. If you get blown around, develop the knack to keep the yoke moving so that you fly (mostly) level. You've got to react faster than the plane (in slow, controlled motions of the yoke) to help counteract gusts. Not to sound all "Star Wars" on you and give you Jedi training, but you should learn to feel and "sense" the airplane, not use your eyes an instruments to determine your actions. Your eyes are used for looking outside so you can determine level flight.

As for steep turns - again, nothing to worry about. Yes, it's a little unusual to be at that bank angle. But the plane is flying, and you are PIC! If you're looking out the side window, you're doing it wrong. You need to be looking out the front window, focusing on the horizon or other horizontal plane that you can use to keep the aircraft flying a level path in the steep turn. You'll need to glance at your instruments from time to time to ensure you have adequate airspeed, are coordinated, and have the correct bank angle, but then look outside again and focus on that predetermined point to keep the aircraft in that level path.\

It's always hard the first time. Even the second or third time. But you will get "used" to it (note I said "used to it", and not "comfortable with it.") This applies for turbulent flight, steep turns, and stalls (which I think you've done?)

Thanks @rtk11 . appreciate your inputs. yeah i have done stalls ones, more coming soon. though there were few o crap moments on the first power off stall, it wasnt that bad.. dont mind doing it again (like i have a choice ). couldnt fly yesterday in 22G30, tomorrow supposed to be 15G20, will go up and to get used to the annoying feeling and i will keep going back until it doesnt bother me anymore, that i know. i think it would have little better if i was just flying around instead of trying go around procedures, should have done that to get used to the turbulence. first time doing go around procedures and the turbulance on top of it didnt help.

 

[yakdriver]

That's part of the problem with instruction these days. Your instructor is doing you no favors if you have been mostly just droning around all this time. Too many flight instructors baby their students instead of working them hard. If you fly more than once a week you will learn faster. Most of my instructional flights were about 1.5 hrs. Enough to learn a lot but not too much to get overloaded. Half the lesson we would go out and do some air work and the last half touch and go's. From engine start to shut down he should be teaching. Like the turbulence you encountered. He should have showed you how to keep a light touch on the stick and let it ride with just minor corrections. If turbulence continues to bother you go take a couple of aerobatic lessons and it will cure that in a hurry. Once you find out there are no unusual attitudes turbulence is nothing. Don

 

[WannFly]

That's part of the problem with instruction these days. Your instructor is doing you no favors if you have been mostly just droning around all this time. Too many flight instructors baby their students instead of working them hard. If you fly more than once a week you will learn faster. Most of my instructional flights were about 1.5 hrs. Enough to learn a lot but not too much to get overloaded. Half the lesson we would go out and do some air work and the last half touch and go's. From engine start to shut down he should be teaching. Like the turbulence you encountered. He should have showed you how to keep a light touch on the stick and let it ride with just minor corrections. If turbulence continues to bother you go take a couple of aerobatic lessons and it will cure that in a hurry. Once you find out there are no unusual attitudes turbulence is nothing. Don

i am trying to fly 3 times a week, the crappy weather makes sure i cant fly at least 1 of them, if not 2 ...

 

[WannFly]

re-posting my reply from another thread, you guys have been fantastic in helping out this newbie, so i think you should know how i did after the turbulent day...

"i have developed a system that i call "the new normal". its specifically designed to train my brain to believe that what i am doing is normal even though it thinks its not.a week back i was up in traffic pattern and it was turbulent, there was so much going on and just didnt think i can control the plane and had to cut that flight short. simply put, i was too scared of the turbulence. i had a week to think about it and realized something, its the perceived fear that's taking over me, its my brain flooding me with fear emotion to keep me safe. i appreciate that immensely. so i developed this thing that helped me immensely yesterday.

we were out on 2 back to back sessions, total of 3.8 hrs. on the second session, CFI turned the PFD off and the only instruments i had at my disposal was the backup ones. i was flying way better than i normally do trying to catch up the numbers of G1000. then he introduced to simulated moderate turbulence, shoving the yoke forward and backward very rapidly, then bank left and right extremely rapidly and then full rudder left and right. it was damn scary and uncomfortable. but i also noticed that it was perfectly safe... so i took over control, and started doing that, slowly at first and then very rapidly and after some time i started enjoying it, loved it actually and kept doing it. it became my new normal, i told my brain, its perfectly safe doing it and my brain agreed. i was having the best flight i ever had until my CFI told me to stop because he was getting nauseous .

then as i settled in, he pulled the throttle to idle and told me to find a place to land. first engine out procedure, didnt bother me at all, because of the exercise i did before, i knew if a gust of wind banks me to the left, i have complete control over it with my yoke. there i was dodging the clouds and finding a place to land.... also realized the plane flies much smoother with the engine idle

while coming back, took 360 and 720 degree turns with 30-35 degree bank (big deal for me), there were some turbulence, didnt bug me anymore. my brain knew it was the new normal.

PS:
1. I have decided and my CFI agrees that for next several lessons i want to keep the PFD off and be a stick and rudder pilot first. with the G1000 on, all i am trying to do is chase the numbers.. 2.5 degree nose up...etc and obsessing over it and trying to over correct everything. looking at the analog ones, i had no idea where 2.5 degree was, while on straight and level, i turned the PDF on momentarily to find was i was at 2.5 degree nose up, perfectly without even trying. outside world cues are way better than the digital instrument i was trying to follow , at this stage of my training, i strongly believe G1000 is not helping out in any shape or form.
2. Airspeed indicator is pretty much all i needed to fly, rest were there to help, but my 80% of the instrument scan (which probably was about 10% of the flight time at the max) was on the airspeed indicator

 

[champ driver]

re-posting my reply from another thread, you guys have been fantastic in helping out this newbie, so i think you should know how i did after the turbulent day...

"i have developed a system that i call "the new normal". its specifically designed to train my brain to believe that what i am doing is normal even though it thinks its not.a week back i was up in traffic pattern and it was turbulent, there was so much going on and just didnt think i can control the plane and had to cut that flight short. simply put, i was too scared of the turbulence. i had a week to think about it and realized something, its the perceived fear that's taking over me, its my brain flooding me with fear emotion to keep me safe. i appreciate that immensely. so i developed this thing that helped me immensely yesterday.

we were out on 2 back to back sessions, total of 3.8 hrs. on the second session, CFI turned the PFD off and the only instruments i had at my disposal was the backup ones. i was flying way better than i normally do trying to catch up the numbers of G1000. then he introduced to simulated moderate turbulence, shoving the yoke forward and backward very rapidly, then bank left and right extremely rapidly and then full rudder left and right. it was damn scary and uncomfortable. but i also noticed that it was perfectly safe... so i took over control, and started doing that, slowly at first and then very rapidly and after some time i started enjoying it, loved it actually and kept doing it. it became my new normal, i told my brain, its perfectly safe doing it and my brain agreed. i was having the best flight i ever had until my CFI told me to stop because he was getting nauseous .

then as i settled in, he pulled the throttle to idle and told me to find a place to land. first engine out procedure, didnt bother me at all, because of the exercise i did before, i knew if a gust of wind banks me to the left, i have complete control over it with my yoke. there i was dodging the clouds and finding a place to land.... also realized the plane flies much smoother with the engine idle

while coming back, took 360 and 720 degree turns with 30-35 degree bank (big deal for me), there were some turbulence, didnt bug me anymore. my brain knew it was the new normal.

PS:
1. I have decided and my CFI agrees that for next several lessons i want to keep the PFD off and be a stick and rudder pilot first. with the G1000 on, all i am trying to do is chase the numbers.. 2.5 degree nose up...etc and obsessing over it and trying to over correct everything. looking at the analog ones, i had no idea where 2.5 degree was, while on straight and level, i turned the PDF on momentarily to find was i was at 2.5 degree nose up, perfectly without even trying. outside world cues are way better than the digital instrument i was trying to follow , at this stage of my training, i strongly believe G1000 is not helping out in any shape or form.
2. Airspeed indicator is pretty much all i needed to fly, rest were there to help, but my 80% of the instrument scan (which probably was about 10% of the flight time at the max) was on the airspeed indicator

Bingo!

 

[ejensen]

Bumps will get smaller as training progresses and you realize the planes not going to fall out of the sky.

 

[danhagan]

Unless he's training in a mountainous area where that method is dang near impossible.

<--- trained in such an area

+1 ... tried using the base of the mountains as a guide, but that isn't very helpful.

To the OP: Keep flying. The CFI is going to "introduce" you to turbulence at some point so you're used to it. If you're having that much trouble with steep turns, you better get him to demonstrate some commercial 60* banks then to get this out of your system. Cinch your belts TIGHT for extreme TB ... usually have mine normal (tight not restrictive) ... my head got introduced to the head liner on a flight that had been light chop to that point. I cinch down TIGHT now at the onset of light chop. Was in a buddies RV with 5-point restraint once when he hit some nasties, those belts are NICE and just feel snug.

In my area, I've hit extreme mechanical TB twice (mountain induced) and you need to remain calm and know what to do. Worst one was at night turning crosswind ... I got rolled so hard (a little past 90*) I was wondering if I was going to have to go with it and roll all the way around (aileron roll) - got an upset training course with spins and aileron roll practice right after. Having that experience at 800 feet right after takeoff wasn't fun.

 

[WannFly]

+1 ... tried using the base of the mountains as a guide, but that isn't very helpful.

To the OP: Keep flying. The CFI is going to "introduce" you to turbulence at some point so you're used to it. If you're having that much trouble with steep turns, you better get him to demonstrate some commercial 60* banks then to get this out of your system. Cinch your belts TIGHT for extreme TB ... usually have mine normal (tight not restrictive) ... my head got introduced to the head liner on a flight that had been light chop to that point. I cinch down TIGHT now at the onset of light chop. Was in a buddies RV with 5-point restraint once when he hit some nasties, those belts are NICE and just feel snug.

In my area, I've hit extreme mechanical TB twice (mountain induced) and you need to remain calm and know what to do. Worst one was at night turning crosswind ... I got rolled so hard (a little past 90*) I was wondering if I was going to have to go with it and roll all the way around (aileron roll) - got an upset training course with spins and aileron roll practice right after. Having that experience at 800 feet right after takeoff wasn't fun.

That's in my to do list, spin training and some aerobatic ones to get it out of my system. I have noticed that once I see and feel the other side, namely, a 40 degree bank, the 30-35 doesn't bug me anymore. The commercial turn is a great idea and I will have my CFI do it a few times so that 45 degree becomes a piece of cake. Made some great progress last time, so excited to go up again, again and again...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Harold Rutila]

we were out on 2 back to back sessions, total of 3.8 hrs. on the second session, CFI turned the PFD off and the only instruments i had at my disposal was the backup ones. i was flying way better than i normally do trying to catch up the numbers of G1000. then he introduced to simulated moderate turbulence, shoving the yoke forward and backward very rapidly, then bank left and right extremely rapidly and then full rudder left and right. it was damn scary and uncomfortable. but i also noticed that it was perfectly safe... so i took over control, and started doing that, slowly at first and then very rapidly and after some time i started enjoying it, loved it actually and kept doing it. it became my new normal, i told my brain, its perfectly safe doing it and my brain agreed. i was having the best flight i ever had until my CFI told me to stop because he was getting nauseous

You have a great CFI. Turning off the digital displays is a good idea that should be done more often. Determining attitude by visual reference is unfortunately becoming a lost art. When the displays are turned back on, never forget to keep looking outside.

 

[iamtheari]

You have a great CFI. Turning off the digital displays is a good idea that should be done more often. Determining attitude by visual reference is unfortunately becoming a lost art. When the displays are turned back on, never forget to keep looking outside.

+1. I started my training in a J-3 Cub. People think I am joking when I say that "I was not burdened by any instruments" when I learned how to fly. They're wrong. I think I benefited from starting my flying limited to airspeed, altitude, engine gauges, and a magnetic compass that is so far off that I think it's either enchanted or haunted and, if it ever points the same direction long enough, I'll follow it and find out.