In this episode of "What would you do?"

Frogs97

Frogs97

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Frogs97
You are approaching a field from the west at 2500'. Runway is 14 and a left hand pattern at 1500'. How do you enter the pattern?
 
Swing out to the north and come straight in or cross mid field for a left downwind
 
I would just maneuver to enter the 45 at TPA. My heading is @ 090, the 45 would be 095, I'm practically on the 45. I would descend to be at TPA @ 2 miles on the 45.

Edit, instead of redoing this, I'll leave it as an example of how you can screw up an approach. Obviously, I am setting up for the reciprocal in the above. So, I would do the same as the above posters, overfly and enter the 45.
 
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Frogs97 said:
You are approaching a field from the west at 2500'. Runway is 14 and a left hand pattern at 1500'. How do you enter the pattern?
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As I'm descending through 2500' heading approx 090, I'd plan to be at 1500' 2-3 miles out so I could slow down and cross the field near the departure end of 14 (or at least 3000' from the approach end) at 100 mph, calling "crossing west to east for left downwind entry 14" just before I get there.
 
Frogs97 said:
You are approaching a field from the west at 2500'. Runway is 14 and a left hand pattern at 1500'. How do you enter the pattern?
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Nobody reporting in the pattern? Then I cross the numbers perpendicular at pattern altitude and break into a descending left 270 for the threshold. Either that or I set up way out to intercept a right final well clear of the airport area and come in on a straight in. Considering the 140°-270° angle is an obtuse one, this would be my most likely choice in this instance.

If I'm talking to other traffic, it depends on what works out best as negotiated.
 
Straight on in, *******!

:D
 
Or declare an emergency and the field is all yours.
Always an option.
 
FastEddieB said:
That's how I was taught, how I taught and how I would do it at a nontowered field the vast majority of the time.
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The thing about midfield is you have a worse angle to view the 45° entry corridor as you're converging on basically the same point so the target won't be moving in your view. If you aim for the numbers, then that traffic will move across your windshield which makes it much more likely you will spot it.
 
kayoh190 said:
Straight on in, *******!

:D
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This.

I swing a bit N before I hit the 2-3 mile mark, announce straight in. If there's traffic in the pattern, I may adjust and fly an upwind if I'm going to cause disruption for anyone on downwind.

Or just say on the radio I have to pee really really really really bad, and request some help from the plane on downwind if they don't offer to extend. :D
 
Enter anyway way you want.... If there is traffic, go with the flow. If not, kick the tail into a slip, drop it in like a rock right over the numbers and grease that *****.
 
EdFred said:
Or just say on the radio I have to pee really really really really bad, and request some help from the plane on downwind if they don't offer to extend. :D
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You'd better be prepared to be seen hauling tuckus off the aircraft as soon as it's secured; that's not something that can easily be faked convincingly. ;)
 
CEB_lights said:
You'd better be prepared to be seen hauling tuckus off the aircraft as soon as it's secured; that's not something that can easily be faked convincingly. ;)
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Oh, I wouldn't even need to haul ass. I would stand right by the aircraft, and pour a water bottle on the ground so it just looks like I'm peeing. :D But I have had the "man I gotta pee now" sprint on occasion. The FBO desk people must know what it looks like, because the last time I had it (~6hr flight) as soon as I got inside the FBO doors, the desk girl was already pointing which way it was to the rest rooms. :)
 
A split S followed by a hamerhead

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Then an over head break and turning slip at 30* bank to wings level at touchdown

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Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full

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SixPapaCharlie said:
Swing out to the north and come straight in or cross mid field for a left downwind
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I didn't want to come straight in, in case anyone was there but not reporting. When you come across midfield, do you turn left into the downwind?

I crossed midfield at 2300' and said I was going to do a teardrop to descend to TPA and then enter on the 45. Someone jumped up on the radio and said that it was illegal, and "you guys need to stop doing that". Not sure how it could be illegal since I'm above TPA until I'm on the 45 to get into the pattern. But I just wondered about other options there.
 
Frogs97 said:
I didn't want to come straight in, in case anyone was there but not reporting. When you come across midfield, do you turn left into the downwind?
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It's recommended to fly clear of the pattern, then descend to TPA while clear, to join the downwind midfield at a 45° angle.
 
When a straight in is applicable, it is the best approach to use because it provides the minimum points of, and exposure time to, conflict. With regards to a NORDO plane in the pattern, your risk point has the best visibility for conflicting traffic. The straight in is a perfectly legal, and AIM given, option for a reason.

If I cross midfield it's at pattern altitude and I turn left into downwind.
 
FastEddieB said:
It's recommended to fly clear of the pattern, then descend to TPA while clear, to join the downwind midfield at a 45° angle.
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Yes, great idea. Find all the traffic. Put your back to it, and then try to find it again when you come back to the pattern.

Overfly the field and put your back to everything you could see it is THE WORST IDEA the FAA could have come up with.
 
Henning said:
Nobody reporting in the pattern? Then I cross the numbers perpendicular at pattern altitude and break into a descending left 270 for the threshold. Either that or I set up way out to intercept a right final well clear of the airport area and come in on a straight in. Considering the 140°-270° angle is an obtuse one, this would be my most likely choice in this instance.

If I'm talking to other traffic, it depends on what works out best as negotiated.
Click to expand...

Left 270 or right? That was this guy's deal, is he said all turns have to be to the left. Since I was above TPA I didn't think it was an issue and I wasn't technically in the pattern until after I came in on the 45

Seems like lots of straight in guys here. Clearly I'm still relatively new, but I'm kinda paranoid about the NORDO guys at uncontrolled fields. How do you mitigate that when you are coming straight in?

Course, even the guys on the radio concern me at times. At this field some time ago I was coming up on the field trying to pick out the guy that just reported his upwind and the crosswind. I was coming from the south and was getting really nervous. I was announcing where I was and no joy on the crosswind traffic when his next call was turning final. After he got back up in the air, someone else jumped on and said "NOW you are on the upwind".
 
Frogs97 said:
Left 270 or right? That was this guy's deal, is he said all turns have to be to the left. Since I was above TPA I didn't think it was an issue and I wasn't technically in the pattern until after I came in on the 45

Seems like lots of straight in guys here. Clearly I'm still relatively new, but I'm kinda paranoid about the NORDO guys at uncontrolled fields. How do you mitigate that when you are coming straight in?

Course, even the guys on the radio concern me at times. At this field some time ago I was coming up on the field trying to pick out the guy that just reported his upwind and the crosswind. I was coming from the south and was getting really nervous. I was announcing where I was and no joy on the crosswind traffic when his next call was turning final. After he got back up in the air, someone else jumped on and said "NOW you are on the upwind".
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Left 270. Let's say it's runway 18 the winds favor and I am coming from the west on a heading of 090°. I cross the numbers 18 with the runway extending off my right wing, then make a descending left 270° turn to final Rwy 18.

Yes, all turns except the 45 to downwind should be to the left. Given your approach angle, to do what you wanted to do, you should have come straight across the field and turned left into a left turn course reversal to enter the 45.

It doesn't make any sense to do, that's why this situation is so ill defined. What you do is intercept an extended final 3 miles out and come straight in and get on, then clear of, the runway in the minimum time. Exposure is the biggest risk factor.
 
Just in case anyone is curious about what the FAA recommends, from the Airplane Flying Handbook:

When approaching an airport for landing, the traffic pattern should be entered at a 45° angle to the downwind leg, headed toward a point abeam of the midpoint of the runway to be used for landing. Arriving airplanes should be at the proper traffic pattern altitude before entering the pattern, and should stay clear of the traffic flow until established on the entry leg. Entries into traffic patterns while descending create specific collision hazards and should always be avoided.

The entry leg should be of sufficient length to provide a clear view of the entire traffic pattern, and to allow the pilot adequate time for planning the intended path in the pattern and the landing approach.
 
Left teardrop straight to
 
Frogs97 said:
Someone jumped up on the radio and said that it was illegal, and "you guys need to stop doing that".
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ILLEGAL?????? :yikes:
Traffic patterns are just recommendations (Or so I thought)
I think legally, you can do whatever you want at an uncontrolled field.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I think legally, you can do whatever you want at an uncontrolled field.
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Not quite.

§91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;...

So, by law, if you choose to fly a pattern you must abide by 91.126. Probably rare, but a pilot could be violated for doing otherwise.

The catch is there's nothing that states a pilot must fly a pattern. So the other option is straight in with no turns in the pattern.
 
Henning said:
Nobody reporting in the pattern? Then I cross the numbers perpendicular at pattern altitude and break into a descending left 270 for the threshold. Either that or I set up way out to intercept a right final well clear of the airport area and come in on a straight in.
Click to expand...

I think...maybe the OP was asking whether to make left or right turns in the pattern, which is what it appears the other pilot was harping about on the radio. While in the pattern environment, overflying midfield and making left turns is fine.

The other option was flying well north of the field staying out of the pattern environment, and making a right turn to set up a long final straight in.

Either of those two options will require sequencing in with other planes already established in the pattern. If there are only one or two planes, it's doable. If you are at a training field with more planes buzzing around, it's probably advisable to fly well south or north of the field, and set up a standard entry east of the field from there. That's what I would do, and have done, anyways.
 
woodchucker said:
I think...maybe the OP was asking whether to make left or right turns in the pattern, which is what it appears the other pilot was harping about on the radio. While in the pattern environment, overflying midfield and making left turns is fine.

The other option was flying well north of the field staying out of the pattern environment, and making a right turn to set up a long final straight in.

Either of those two options will require sequencing in with other planes already established in the pattern. If there are only one or two planes, it's doable. If you are at a training field with more planes buzzing around, it's probably advisable to fly well south or north of the field, and set up a standard entry east of the field from there. That's what I would do, and have done, anyways.
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Actually, what confused me is that when I was envisioning his description, I was thinking the numbers on the departure end, and the left 270 wasn't making sense to me. Once my mind got to the right end of the runway and saw he was going straight to final and not entering the downwind it made sense to me.

In this case, I went out past the pattern at midfield and did a right 270 to get down to pattern altitude and pick up the 45 for the downwind. Worst case it sounds like it was a little unnecessary, but hardly illegal.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
ILLEGAL?????? :yikes:
Traffic patterns are just recommendations (Or so I thought)
I think legally, you can do whatever you want at an uncontrolled field.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he was pretty curt about it. There was an RV departing to the east that might have said it. But there's a freelance instructor that is based there that was on the way in that might have been the guy, too.
 
To repeat, my rationale for overflying the field is to get a good view of:

1) The windsock,

2) Wildlife, equipment or giant "X"'s on the runway,

3) To confirm the runway layout,

4) To better spot traffic already in the pattern to aid in sequencing.

May be possible to do all of the above from an angle, but I've grown to appreciate the bird's eye view looking straight down at the airport environment.

Works for me. Others can do whatever works for them and I'll deal with it.
 
CEB_lights said:
You'd better be prepared to be seen hauling tuckus off the aircraft as soon as it's secured; that's not something that can easily be faked convincingly. ;)
Click to expand...


Just hop out and pee on whomever is watching close enough to care's, shoes. They won't ever be interested ever again.
 
Unless the airport listing in the AFD states right hand pattern, I will always make left traffic. If coming from the right side, I will overfly at least at TPA + 500 and then do a teardrop back in for the 45. If I am coming from the left side, I will just enter on the 45.
 
FastEddieB said:
Works for me. Others can do whatever works for them and I'll deal with it.
Click to expand...

This. As long as what you're doing is predictable (i.e. flying the pattern in the correct direction and at the right altitude) so I know where to find you, I don't really care how others enter the pattern.

I've long given up on trying to convince people to enter the pattern one way or another :goofy:
 
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