In the process of getting my PPL, some help please

[jmoney6]

Hi All!
As of now i've done 3 hours of flight time. I was given King Ground School (8 DVD's) that I am going to watch and study from.
I also purchased a CH flight yoke and X-Plane 10.
I am currently learning in a Cessna 172.

My question is I want to complete the course in as close to 40 hours as possible, what else can I do to cut down on the hours? (As well as make me a better pilot).

 

[jordane93]

Don't worry about the hours. You'll get your license when you're ready. In the end, your license will say the same thing as a person who took 200 hours to get it. My suggestion would be to fly every day if you are trying to get your license in as little time as possible

 

[brien23]

Try to fly at least 2 to 3 times a week. If you live in a area that weather is a problem you might wait till spring and good weather. When you go more than a week between flights you will take a lot longer. It is possible in 40 hours but the average is 60 to 70 hours for PPL.

 

[AdamZ]

Try to fly at least 2 to 3 times a week. If you live in a area that weather is a problem you might wait till spring and good weather. When you go more than a week between flights you will take a lot longer. It is possible in 40 hours but the average is 60 to 70 hours for PPL.

THIS!

 

[MotoFlier]

Hi All!
As of now i've done 3 hours of flight time. I was given King Ground School (8 DVD's) that I am going to watch and study from.
I also purchased a CH flight yoke and X-Plane 10.
I am currently learning in a Cessna 172.

My question is I want to complete the course in as close to 40 hours as possible, what else can I do to cut down on the hours? (As well as make me a better pilot).

The sim will not help you with initial training it is better used for IFR stuff. Stop thinking about hours I'm not even sure if its possible to be done in 40.

Welcome to POA!

 

[exncsurfer]

Get Medical taken care of.(be careful, it may not be as easy as you think, make sure you'll pass BEFORE you see the examiner). You can't SOLO till you get it, my training was delayed for months waiting on the medical.

 

[James331]

Hi All!
As of now i've done 3 hours of flight time. I was given King Ground School (8 DVD's) that I am going to watch and study from.
I also purchased a CH flight yoke and X-Plane 10.
I am currently learning in a Cessna 172.

My question is I want to complete the course in as close to 40 hours as possible, what else can I do to cut down on the hours? (As well as make me a better pilot).

Sounds like you're on the right track, I'd be careful of the sim though, easy way to learn bad habits and doesn't help much for VFR ops.

Best suggestion would be to hit up those King videos, chair fly the plane and have at it.

 

[jmoney6]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month 2 hours one week 1 hour the next week and so on. The only real barrier for me is cost (though not huge) I'm just super frugal.

 

[write-stuff]

Homework!

 

[MotoFlier]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month 2 hours one week 1 hour the next week and so on. The only real barrier for me is cost (though not huge) I'm just super frugal.

Take about $12,000-$15,000 and set it aside for training at the end use whats left over toward a nice headset.

 

[jmoney6]

12k - 15k theres no way. The school i'm at now is $130 an hour all in including instructor and plane rental.

 

[MotoFlier]

12k - 15k theres no way. The school i'm at now is $130 an hour all in including instructor and plane rental.

I don't know are there any guys/girls who have recently gotten there ticket from your school Who you can talk to?
That would give you the best estimate for the time and money needed at your location. I will say getting a PPL around me even if you managed it in 40hrs would be way more than $5,200. I bet I was over that by my first cross country.

 

[alang]

12k - 15k theres no way. The school i'm at now is $130 an hour all in including instructor and plane rental.

Location is a pretty big deal. The average in the SF Bay Area is 90+ hours. The complex airspace takes a lot more time to learn and the CFI can't let you out on your own nearly as soon vs being out in Montana or some other very quiet area. And you have to add another 40-50 hours of ground instruction. So the $12,000 est is not bad for around here.

That said, the people who do do it in 40 hours, are young, driven, and fly 4-5 days a week. It can be done even in complex environment, but you will have to really work for it.

Alan

 

[EminiTrader]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month 2 hours one week 1 hour the next week and so on. The only real barrier for me is cost (though not huge) I'm just super frugal.

Super Frugal is great. But it won't work in aviation..... My biggest expense in my life is flying. If I quit flying, I could retire. Trust me.

Very few do it in 40 hours. NOt saying you can't but odds are you won't. Just realize it's awesome and it simply costs a boatload of money. After you get your license, then what? Do you ever plan on flying again? Getting IR rated?

It never ends...

 

[MikeELP]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month.

Change that to 6 hours per WEEK and your 40 hour goal is perhaps reasonable.

With your current projection of 6 hours per month, I'm not saying that your hopes of getting it done in 40 hours is impossible, but I would say highly improbable. This all said without meaning to pee on anyone's Cheerios.

 

[EdFred]

I was signed off for the check ride the day I had 40 hours. But I was lucky. I picked up everything right away (basically my instructor demonstrated, and I almost flew to PTS standards on my first execution) I trained at a sleepy uncontrolled field, kept the lessons short so I wasn't overloaded, and I made sure to fly OFTEN and by often I mean (I had to dig out my logbook to see how often it was):

Flew on
July 23 (intro ride) 24 30 31
August 2 6 8 12 16 20 23 26(x2 - solo) 27 28 29 30
Sept 4 12 14 21 23 27
Oct 5 9 12 16 23
Nov 8 9 sign off

The majority of those lessons were an hour or less, and we didn't have to repeat any lessons - probably because I was flying so often. Flying twice a month isn't going to get it done in 40 hours.

 

[Ravioli]

Sell the flight simulation stuff and you'll have 1 more hour toward your ticket

At least you didn't say you had the dumb foot pedals that usually don't accurately simulate rudder or breaks.

As always, discuss it with your CFI, but flight sim games are not flight training devices. If they were we'd be logging the time.

And as you've gathered in the other responses: Train more frequently, spend less overall.

 

[exncsurfer]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month 2 hours one week 1 hour the next week and so on. The only real barrier for me is cost (though not huge) I'm just super frugal.

Keep in mind when you start doing cross countries, you'll blow your 2 week budget in one flight. Then what? You don't want to take weeks off and lose skills. Make sure you have enough money/time to keep up the frequency when the flights get longer.

From what you've posted, It doesn't seem that you're in a hurry so much as budgeting time or money.

As some others have pointed out, I wouldn't fixate on the total hours/cost, if you want to keep flying after PPL, you don't stop paying when you get it.

If you were in a hurry, there are places you can go to bust out a PPL in 2 or 3 weeks, that would probably be the cheapest/fastest way.

 

[Caramon13]

12k - 15k theres no way. The school i'm at now is $130 an hour all in including instructor and plane rental.

You are lucky that's all it costs for both the plane and the instructor. Do they charge you for fuel as well or is that bundled into those costs?

I don't know if I've ever seen a 172 go for less than $130 / wet. Add to that you have an instructor in that cost and you really don't know how big of a savings that is. Down here in FL it costs about $230/hr to fly in a glass panel 172 (wet, including instructor).

That said, expect to have spent at least 10k by the time you're done and have all your gear. Headsets aren't cheap, you need materials/books, etc.

My PPL was 18K before materials and I spent about 80 hours in the air (~225/hr). I did a LOT of solo practice and had to switch planes/instructors more than once.

It's awesome to have a budget, but expect the unexpected and don't be so sure you'll get your license at 40 hours. Could take you 100 to get there.

Set aside 10-15K and you won't be surprised budget wise. And hey..worst case if you come out ahead you got some spending cash for flying the rental plane with your friends/family after your PPL for those $100 hamburgers

 

[MAKG1]

I can find 172s for under $130 wet even in the SF Bay Area.

I can even find a 177RG for less than that. Only one, though. It's not common to find complex aircraft for under $150.

Using glass for primary instruction is a big mistake. The glass helps you fly like a fat passenger does. It just takes up weight, and distracts you from your goal.

 

[Caramon13]

Man I need to get to SF Bay for a complex then, I'd save enough to pay for airfare compared to what they rent for over here.

A Turbo Arrow rents for $250/hr wet (before instruction) over this way.

 

[labbadabba]

The sim will not help you with initial training it is better used for IFR stuff. Stop thinking about hours I'm not even sure if its possible to be done in 40.

Welcome to POA!

Totally disagree. I got my PPL at ~44 hours. Using the sim is great for basic training insofar as you're getting used to sight pictures, basic procedures, radio work, pattern work (getting muscle memory of when to put in power settings, etc.)

That SAID, be very careful with the sim, using it to practice Turns on Point, S-Turns, Steep Turns, Stalls is not terribly accurate. One thing I did, was after a flight with my CFI, I would go home and fly the exact same flight. Just to ingrain the muscle memory. After a while you learn to identify what the sim does well and what it doesn't. At that point it really becomes a useful tool.

Saitek pedals and a Saitek TPM module are worth the investment as well. Again, not totally like the real thing, but creating some muscle memory immediately after a lesson is essential to learning.

 

[RobertSubnet]

...is $130 an hour all in including instructor and plane rental.

That is a good hourly rate. Here in Phoenix it is $104 + another $65 for the instructor. As others have commented get rid of the sim and instead get yourself a chair in a quiet, empty room and "chair fly." Chair Flying will really help build the muscle memory when it comes to learning procedures. Also get a good picture of the instrument panel and make it your computer "wall paper." That will also help build familiarity.

 

[MAKG1]

You can also buy a control panel poster from Sporty's. Not that I think it's necessary, but it exists.

The idea of using a sim for "muscle memory" makes no sense at all. Sure, you'll learn muscle memory, but it's the wrong muscle memory. Sight pictures are different, avionics are different, control forces are different, landmarks are different, and so on. Just about everything about flying except for the nav radios. They can be fun to play with, and that's fine. But don't fool yourself that it will save you a single cent. Especially, don't get in the habit of fixating on instruments. That's not how you fly VFR.

$130 is a very good price for a 172 if it includes an instructor and fuel. But keep in mind that insisting on 40 hours is not a good strategy. Some people do it, but not many. I'll caution that pressure to finish on a schedule can be counterproductive and even dangerous, in the sense that it can motivate flight when it's either too dangerous or just too difficult to learn anything. For instance, strong summer afternoon thermals aren't good for learning to land. They are very useful for later on, once the firehose effect has worn off and fair weather landing has been mastered (post solo).

 

[dell30rb]

The plan is to fly a total of 6 hours per month 2 hours one week 1 hour the next week and so on. The only real barrier for me is cost (though not huge) I'm just super frugal.

Thats fine. 2 lessons one week, one lesson the next week will get you done in 40 if you're a good study.

I did basically the same thing and got mine in slightly less than 6 months.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I'm just super frugal.

You're in the wrong hobby.

I'm partially serious about that.

The sim will be useless, it's good for IFR stuff... if you really want to use it, practice flying to/from VORs, tracking radials, using the CDI to figure out where you are in relation to the VOR. Sims are fun yes but little of it will help you with the real thing.

Keep in mind that while some get it done in the minimum 40 hours, most take longer. I don't think it's a good idea to go in there with the 40 hour goal, but rather the goal that you'll take that checkride when you're ready to take it. Any competent CFI will mostly ignore the number of hours and sign you off when you're able to do the PTS tasks, and do them safely.

 

[ELee3]

I had some big breaks in my training due to switching gears from Sport Pilot to PP, weather, instructor schedule, and issues with getting a medical. As a result, I had to do a fair amount of refresher flying after breaks. I came to realize that I wasn't in a rush to finish, because I was enjoying learning to fly. I really enjoyed flying with my instructor (who is a friend of mine) and I enjoyed practicing solo. I was in no rush to take someone else flying until I felt really confident that I was safe. I also think that the process of re-learning things a few times after breaks helped them stick with me a little better.

I took my check ride with about 70 hours in the logbook. The funny thing is that at 20 hours I was getting ready to work up for a Sport Pilot check ride. I was not even near ready to be out on my own. I knew it then, and I am even more sure of it now.

 

[petrolero]

Do your training at a non-towered airport in a C152 or equivalent. Don't train in aircraft with fancy-pants gizmos because you'll just waste time learning stuff that you don't need to know for the checkride.

I spread my primary training over 1.5 years and still managed to get it done in 54 hours (in 1995) but I didn't spend tons of time learning a G1000 or a modern moving map WAAS box or learning to operate and communicate every day in a busy Class D with busy practice areas (even though doing so is very good experience, it adds time). If it's feasible, skip that stuff if you want to get your PPL ASAP.

But just know that you are very likely still going to have to learn that stuff right after the checkride in order to make using your PPL more efficient.

 

[labbadabba]

The idea of using a sim for "muscle memory" makes no sense at all. Sure, you'll learn muscle memory, but it's the wrong muscle memory. Sight pictures are different, avionics are different, control forces are different, landmarks are different, and so on.

I guess when I mean muscle memory, I'm referring to things like pattern flying, i.e., Key Position - Carb Heat, power back to 1500 rpm, flaps in the white, pitch for 80 and 500fpm. Granted you don't get control forces but if you set up your sim cockpit to approximate a real aircraft you can actually develop a real scan. I'm not sure how this would be less beneficial than chair flying where you don't have any tactile sensation at all. It's these kinds of flow items that need to be practiced where it's very beneficial in the primary stage.

Once I learned how to do X-Wind landings, ground reference manouvers, stalls etc in a real airplane, I could reinforce the procedural elements in the sim knowing that the sensations/sight pictures were going to be different. But setting up for a stall in the sim is identical to doing it in real life. Once these procedural elements are firmly committed to memory and ingrained the student can focus on flying the plane when the time comes.

I agree, sim flying can have real drawbacks but for me it was a HUGE help and an even bigger money saver. The $1,200 I spent building a realistic sim cockpit saved me a good 20 hours of instruction. Plus now, I have a nice set up for my IR training.

 

[falconkidding]

Honestly studying is probably the best way to hit 40. As long as you can solo by 20 hours it'll be no problem to hit 40.
Your instructor shouldn't have to teach you anything once you can fly the plane from start up to shutdown. Rather he should be a safety pilot to make sure you do it right and offer some tips and tricks.

Thats how I ended with everything knocked out by 34 ish hours. IE I didn't get a separate lesson for how to use a VOR cause when my instructor on my 1st flight away to another airport said how you gonna get back I just dialed in the vor at home explained the to/from flag and how to track the radial.

Don't be a know it all but at the same time be proactive in demonstrating your knowledge. Grab that AWOS/ATIS without waiting for instructor prompt, verbalize how your gonna enter the pattern what runway your using.

Flying outside of T/O and landings is 95% mental so getting the mental part squared away goes a long way to maximizing your training time.

I took half a year to get my license flying once a week sometimes twice sometimes skipping a week so idt it hurts to fly every now and again as long as you keep your mental game sharp.

Do your training at a non-towered airport in a C152 or equivalent. Don't train in aircraft with fancy-pants gizmos because you'll just waste time learning stuff that you don't need to know for the checkride.

I spread my primary training over 1.5 years and still managed to get it done in 54 hours (in 1995) but I didn't spend tons of time learning a G1000 or a modern moving map WAAS box or learning to operate and communicate every day in a busy Class D with busy practice areas (even though doing so is very good experience, it adds time). If it's feasible, skip that stuff if you want to get your PPL ASAP.

But just know that you are very likely still going to have to learn that stuff right after the checkride in order to make using your PPL more efficient.

Also this. You can knock out a lot of time if you do it non towered and one day fly over to a towered airport for your 3 t/o and landings. Yeah you have to learn ATC stuff if you want to use them after your PPL but its almost a non event to pick up once your out flying around after your PPL.

 

[James331]

You're in the wrong hobby.

I'm partially serious about that.
....

Is say the opposite.

It's the folks who just hand out money like its candy, who don't make it very long shy of being filthy rich.

I'm very frugal too and that's not to even remotely mistaken for cheap.

I'll pay good money for good value, but I won't pay a cent for overpriced or under delivering products or services.



As for the sims and everything else, yeah, not going to help much. Trouble with the OP is he is new to aviation when the biggest thing he needs is a --GOOD-- CFI to guide him, and there is the catch, as someone new to aviation he likely won't know a good CFI from a not so CFI.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Do your training at a non-towered airport in a C152 or equivalent. Don't train in aircraft with fancy-pants gizmos because you'll just waste time learning stuff that you don't need to know for the checkride.

I spread my primary training over 1.5 years and still managed to get it done in 54 hours (in 1995) but I didn't spend tons of time learning a G1000 or a modern moving map WAAS box or learning to operate and communicate every day in a busy Class D with busy practice areas (even though doing so is very good experience, it adds time). If it's feasible, skip that stuff if you want to get your PPL ASAP.

But just know that you are very likely still going to have to learn that stuff right after the checkride in order to make using your PPL more efficient.

Better yet, if your fortunate, maybe there's a smaller non towered airport nearby with say a 150 Citabria that you nan get your ppl in. Or an Eca , maybe, etc. Etc. If so, you'll be far ahead in how an aircraft responds and be able to check out in most light tri gear aircraft quite quickly. I went from a champ to a 180 cessna to a mooney . The mooney was a piece of cake after an hour and a half working with a long time mooney pilot.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Don't worry about the hours. You'll get your license when you're ready. In the end, your license will say the same thing as a person who took 200 hours to get it. My suggestion would be to fly every day if you are trying to get your license in as little time as possible

Listen to this and what other are saying.

Sim won't help...but it won't hurt.

To be honest....if your "getting it done" within 40hrs is a money thing....I think your going to be very disappointed with aviation.

Boats are a giant hole in the water where you throw money at....Aviation is a giant hole where you throw money at the sky.

The only question is....you want to blow your money wet or dry.

PS......I forgot....welcome to POA...

 

[bobmrg]

I guess when I mean muscle memory, I'm referring to things like pattern flying, i.e., Key Position - Carb Heat, power back to 1500 rpm, flaps in the white, pitch for 80 and 500fpm. Granted you don't get control forces but if you set up your sim cockpit to approximate a real aircraft you can actually develop a real scan. I'm not sure how this would be less beneficial than chair flying where you don't have any tactile sensation at all. It's these kinds of flow items that need to be practiced where it's very beneficial in the primary stage.

Once I learned how to do X-Wind landings, ground reference manouvers, stalls etc in a real airplane, I could reinforce the procedural elements in the sim knowing that the sensations/sight pictures were going to be different. But setting up for a stall in the sim is identical to doing it in real life. Once these procedural elements are firmly committed to memory and ingrained the student can focus on flying the plane when the time comes.

I agree, sim flying can have real drawbacks but for me it was a HUGE help and an even bigger money saver. The $1,200 I spent building a realistic sim cockpit saved me a good 20 hours of instruction. Plus now, I have a nice set up for my IR training.

The muscle being exercised in those situations is the one between the ears . The term is usually applied to physical actions such as changing pitch attitude, maintaining altitude in a turn, etc...real muscles.

Bob Gardner