In other news, my tablet died...what's a good replacement
- Thread starter Clark1961
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LearDriver
Line Up and Wait
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Gdriver
An iPad.
bender52
Pre-Flight
I've got an HP TC-1100. Old, but durable and reliable. Why would I get an iPad when I already have a music player. The TC-1100 is a full PC (ala tablet style), not just an overpriced iPod.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that HP still makes these. I've had it over 5 years now.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that HP still makes these. I've had it over 5 years now.
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flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
It won't connect to WxWorx, but ForeFlight recently announced support for external GPS units - One that plugs into the 30-pin connector on the iPad, and one that's Bluetooth.
Not sure if they'll ever support XM, since ADS-B is on the way...
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
bender52
Pre-Flight
Because it's not "just an overpriced iPod."
OK, I'm not a real i-anything fan. What makes it better than a Tablet PC or a Kindle for that matter.
I'm not a follower of that particular technology, so can you offer us some constructive education on what makes the iPad a wiser choice?
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
Compared to a tablet PC, and with current technology out there, here's a few differences:
1) The iPad has much better battery life. On my iPad 3G it ranges from 10-13 hours.
2) It's thinner and lighter, yet incredibly durable because the sides and back are a single piece of aluminum and the front is all glass.
3) It's FAST. Say what you want about Apple's "walled garden" but the way they do things keeps off malware and keeps things from taking too much processing power in the background, so the thing just screams.
4) No stylus to lose, or drop on the floor in turbulence.
5) If you want the gadget to have XM WX - Yep, the iPad loses. There is an ADS-B unit that plugs into the iPad, but last I looked their software wasn't great, and let's face it, ADS-B itself isn't really ready for prime time yet as it's in limited areas only for now. I expect that this will improve in a couple years, and I know there's other ADS-B hardware under development, so this will change - And when that time comes, you won't have to pay XM 50 bucks a month any more.
FWIW, I find ForeFlight (iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch only) to be an incredible piece of software, which really makes good use of the hardware and OS on the iGadgets, especially the iPad. While there were lots of people saying "The iPad is nothing but a big iPod Touch" when it first came out (and they're mostly right), the size makes all the difference in the world. I can see entire approach plates at a size that's pretty much indistinguishable from the actual paper (and I think it might actually be larger, but I'd have to put the two side by side). I can see a chunk of sectional much larger than the amount of land I can see out the window of the airplane. I can scroll around quickly, plan my flight by keyboard or touch, make easy changes by dragging the route line, etc.
Disclosure: I am a beta tester for ForeFlight, but I don't get paid - I just love the product and use it extensively.
blazer003
Filing Flight Plan
Not sure what the specs are on your old tablet, but Asus has an eePC netbook that I'm tempted to buy. No tested experience, so I can't give you first hand testimony, but it reportedly has pretty good battery life.
http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-B...Netbook/dp/B003D1DZBY/ref=dp_cp_ob_pc_title_2
Also, HP has some pretty well reviewed tablet PCs.
http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-B...Netbook/dp/B003D1DZBY/ref=dp_cp_ob_pc_title_2
Also, HP has some pretty well reviewed tablet PCs.
Clark1961
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The ASUS looks interesting...I'll have to dig deeper and see if can be purchased with an SSD. I've superficially looked at the HP and have the same SSD concern with them.
The Frankenkota frequently goes high enough that a standard HD really isn't a good idea...
The Frankenkota frequently goes high enough that a standard HD really isn't a good idea...
CollinLeon
Pre-takeoff checklist
There are certain people who are very pro-Apple. For them, their choice of an Apple product is a religious issue that they will defend to the death (of their pocketbook).
"Vista -- All the Incompatibility of a Mac, but at HALF the price"
Personally, I would stay with a Windoze machine. I am a software developer and even though I prefer any of the various UNIX variants, Windoze is still better than a Mac. Software availability is always going to be better on a Windoze machine than on anything that Apple puts out just because of the fact that there is a larger customer base out there.
"Vista -- All the Incompatibility of a Mac, but at HALF the price"
Personally, I would stay with a Windoze machine. I am a software developer and even though I prefer any of the various UNIX variants, Windoze is still better than a Mac. Software availability is always going to be better on a Windoze machine than on anything that Apple puts out just because of the fact that there is a larger customer base out there.
CollinLeon
Pre-takeoff checklist
If you look at the altitude and temperature specs on the iPad, you will see that it is not something that you would want to leave sitting in a hot car or airplane nor would you want to take it to the altitudes that some of our aircraft travel. I believe that the altitude limit that they put on it is 10,000 ft. With an environment operating temperature of only 95F max, it wouldn't be that great down here along the Gulf Coast.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
I really like my HP TouchSmart tm2. Both pen and touch, will take an SSD and fast. Win7/64 runs fine on it.
JesseD
Line Up and Wait
This depends a bit on your OS desires. I like used toughbooks. They're a bit heavier, but can take a pounding and varied weather conditions. A cheap micro Bluetooth adapter can be had easily enough. Some even come with Bluetooth if I remember right.
Foreflight is nice, I have it on my iPhone, but would it really fit your needs? I don't use my phone this way so I'm not sure.
The last major concern is mounting.
Foreflight is nice, I have it on my iPhone, but would it really fit your needs? I don't use my phone this way so I'm not sure.
The last major concern is mounting.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Do those external GPS solutions work without jailbreaking the iPad?
blazer003
Filing Flight Plan
Ah, yes, something I don't worry about too much in my Symphony.
One of the other similar Asus models comes with an SSD, but the ones I've seen with the SSD come with the 'Z' processor and I haven't heard as favorable reviews for their 'Z' processor as their 'N', both for battery life and performance.
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-T91SA-VU1X-BK-8-9-Inch-Netbook-Computer/dp/B002GCR04Y/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_4
bender52
Pre-Flight
I appreciate the update. Like I said, I'm not an i-user so can't talk about them other than what I've heard second hand. One thing I am curious about is day light viewing. My tablet really sucks in direct sunlight. I've heard that the Kindle is good in direct light, but still this is second hand. I honestly need to replace my tablet, due to the fact that it's just plain older technology and doesn't run new apps that well.
As for the iPad, can you run Windoz apps (ie. MS Office suite) and Adobe Acrobat? Can you connect to shared network drives (shared via Windows or Linux)?
I appreciate the feedback. If the iPad can do these things, I will look into it more for my replacement.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
Meh. Clarification was asked for, so I provided it. In Clark's case, it's probably not the best option, especially if he wants to use his existing WxWorx box and such.
Who said anything about a Mac?
And "Windoze is still better than a Mac" is a very wide-reaching statement, which is not true. "A Mac is better than Windoze" is similarly wide and untrue. It's a matter of which is better for each person's case, and in many cases, the Mac is a better solution than the Mac-haters and those without any Mac experience give it credit for.
I disagree with your "on anything that Apple puts out." For the Mac, currently, you are correct. For the iOS devices, Apple has the largest customer base and the MOST software.
Looking at aviation software is a great example - The Mac doesn't have much. Jepp, Garmin, etc. write software for Windoze.
OTOH, on iOS vs. Android/Win7Phone/etc. it's the other way around. ForeFlight is the most mature aviation product on any of the mobile platforms, and it's only on iOS. There is also a LOT of other aviation software on iOS, so much so that I can't even keep up with it.
Those specs are pretty much a copy & paste of the original iPod specs, and the iPod had a hard drive which is generally the limiting factor on altitude. Several people have used their iPads at FL250 without issue. Apple hasn't bothered to change the specs along the way simply because there's not much demand for it, so they're not going to spend the money to test it. But, as there's no physical hard drive any more, and the iPad generates very little heat (which could be the other issue in thin air), there won't be a problem using it up high.
As for temperature - The iPad can pick up external heat very quickly, especially if you leave it face up in direct sunlight or on a hot surface. Face up, it's black which obviously absorbs the sun's radiation quickly. Sitting on a hot surface, the metal back conducts heat quickly as well. But, if you pay attention and don't put it in that sort of position, you shouldn't have a heat issue either. The iPad also does not generate even a perceptible amount of internal heat - No part of it feels warm to the touch unless you do as I described above and let it pick up a lot of external heat. The good news is, it cools quickly too.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
The iPad does have a "glossy" screen - It is made of glass, after all.
However, I've found that it is usable even in direct sunlight. It's more difficult to see the colors on a sectional, for example, but reading an approach plate is just fine. Also, in the airplane, if you mount it correctly, you won't be reflecting sky, you'll be reflecting your face or the ceiling of the aircraft. When I was demo-ing ForeFlight at OSH this year, one guy asked me about that, so I took him outside the hangar and showed it to him in direct sunlight. "Wow, that's a lot better than I thought it was going to be" was his reaction. Also, if you really have a problem with it, you can get matte screen covers to improve it further.
To the first: Directly, no. The iPad does not run Windows and thus cannot run Windows apps.
However, there are apps that will read & write the Microsoft files - Apple's own iWork software is available on the iPad. $9.99 each for Pages, Numbers, and Keynote (analogous to Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, respectively). For PDF's there are a gazillion readers - In fact, Adobe might even have Acrobat on it, I'm not sure. I use one called GoodReader that's quite popular and capable.
Last I heard, there were over 250,000 apps on the app store, so you can generally find one to do what you want.
As for shared drive access, I've got to go with "I don't know." There's probably an app for that, but I don't know what it is. Also, the iPad doesn't use a traditional filesystem. For security, each app plays in its own sandbox rather than having a shared file system. So, for example, it's not possible to run one app that will destroy files created by another app. It's using a UNIX file system, and the apps cannot go higher in the directory tree than their own directory. There is a way for apps to share with other apps, though.
So - Again - I don't know. I do know that there are apps for DropBox, iDisk, etc. for cloud storage, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's one to connect to your own network drives. I just don't know what it is.
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flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
bender52
Pre-Flight
Kent,
Much thanks. Don't tell anybody, but I probably learned something new here.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
CollinLeon
Pre-takeoff checklist
The best display for use in bright sunlight is going to be something like the e-ink display that the Kindle uses. Compared to an LCD display though, it's rather slow in its display update rate. The Kindle is just an e-book reader though and while it might be good for certain aviation tasks, it's not a moving map. It would be great for holding all your maps and approach plates -- assuming that you don't mind shades of gray for colors. It will also have the best battery life since there is not a backlight to the display. Of course, the corollary to this is that you need an external light shining on it in order to see it at night. For a moving map and electronic flight book, I think that the Kindle has the potential to serve most people's needs if it just had a more general purpose O/S.
With respect to battery life though... Some people have an issue with it on various tablet PCs and portable GPS units... Although I would like for my device to have a battery life that was long enough that I could complete a maximum endurance flight in my plane, I'm satisfied if it has enough battery life that I don't have to shut the device down while I'm stopped for lunch and gas. I would mainly keep the device running off the lighter / accessory 12VDC port in my plane and only resort to running it off battery when I'm stopped or if I had an electrical problem in my plane. The battery life on the Kindle is long enough that I probably wouldn't be too worried about plugging it into the 12VDC port in my plane though -- assuming it ever actually does enough to be useful as an aviation tool.
There are some WinCE devices out there that could be used as a tablet PC or moving map. They often have an USB port on them, so even if they don't have a GPS, you can easily add a hockey puck / dongle type GPS to the PC. Some of these devices run Android instead of WinCE. I have not developed any software for Android devices, so I'll have to reserve judgment on those particular devices, but I have developed a few applications over the years for WinCE devices.
DealExtreme has a selection of WinCE and Android devices. I haven't bought one from them yet, but some of the units look like they might just allow me to retire my PDA. For example, here's one with a 7" TFT LCD, 533 MHz, WinCE 6.0, GPS, and Wi-Fi for $136:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44054
As far as I can tell, it does more than my PDA does at quite a bit less than I paid for my PDA a few years ago.
7" displays are typically 800x480. For some people, this resolution is acceptable... I've kind of gotten used to at least 1024x768 for moving maps with laptops, so I haven't bought one of these devices yet.
Some of these devices don't have cameras that are very good in resolution. Personally, I have no need for a camera on a tablet PC. In fact, a lot of the places that I work have requirements that you cannot have even a camera on your cell phone. These tend to be secure government contract facilities.
With respect to battery life though... Some people have an issue with it on various tablet PCs and portable GPS units... Although I would like for my device to have a battery life that was long enough that I could complete a maximum endurance flight in my plane, I'm satisfied if it has enough battery life that I don't have to shut the device down while I'm stopped for lunch and gas. I would mainly keep the device running off the lighter / accessory 12VDC port in my plane and only resort to running it off battery when I'm stopped or if I had an electrical problem in my plane. The battery life on the Kindle is long enough that I probably wouldn't be too worried about plugging it into the 12VDC port in my plane though -- assuming it ever actually does enough to be useful as an aviation tool.
There are some WinCE devices out there that could be used as a tablet PC or moving map. They often have an USB port on them, so even if they don't have a GPS, you can easily add a hockey puck / dongle type GPS to the PC. Some of these devices run Android instead of WinCE. I have not developed any software for Android devices, so I'll have to reserve judgment on those particular devices, but I have developed a few applications over the years for WinCE devices.
DealExtreme has a selection of WinCE and Android devices. I haven't bought one from them yet, but some of the units look like they might just allow me to retire my PDA. For example, here's one with a 7" TFT LCD, 533 MHz, WinCE 6.0, GPS, and Wi-Fi for $136:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44054
As far as I can tell, it does more than my PDA does at quite a bit less than I paid for my PDA a few years ago.
7" displays are typically 800x480. For some people, this resolution is acceptable... I've kind of gotten used to at least 1024x768 for moving maps with laptops, so I haven't bought one of these devices yet.
Some of these devices don't have cameras that are very good in resolution. Personally, I have no need for a camera on a tablet PC. In fact, a lot of the places that I work have requirements that you cannot have even a camera on your cell phone. These tend to be secure government contract facilities.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
IMHO, too slow. Especially since they're also generally too small to display an approach plate at a readable size, so you have to zoom in, wait, and then move up and down and wait when you need info. This is unacceptable in a busy cockpit.
This is another big plus on the iPad - When I left Wisconsin the other day, my iPad was at 77% on the battery. A full day of flying later, I landed in Texas and the battery was still at 39%. And that's with 3G left on the entire time, which does drain the battery faster when you're in flight.
The iPad's display is 1024x768.
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Have you considered replacing the LCD? I did that on my daughter's Toshiba for under $100... www.LCDScreen.com was fantastic.
In other choices, Seattle Avionics is having a Black Friday sale, you get either the Skypad Slate or Convertible, with lifetime charts, for $995.
They did their own iPad comparison (I haven't read it yet).
zaitcev
En-Route
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Pete Zaitcev
The HP Slate 500 seems like an ideal replacement for the dead QU in theory, but good luck getting hands on one. Maybe some time in December.
HP aside, I am giving the thought to exactly the same question right now. Fortunately for me, I have to use the slab from the left knee, and iPad is too big for it, so I am free from that temptation. It also uses capacitative input (e.g. finger instead of stylus), which again I find objectionable on the knee. I saw people butt-dial touchscreen smartphones before, and my left hand is too close to my knee. So IMHO iPad is strictly a dash or yoke-mount solution. Lost stylus? Please! How do you think I manage my pencil with which I jot down clearances? In a pinch, nail works for resistive input pads.
Kindle would be ideal wrt. display. The concerns about refresh rate are bogus, it's fully sunlight compatible, and new Kindles are better than ever at displaying PDFs such as approach plates... But Kindle is not a software platform, unless you root it. And no color. So while I know of folks who are very satisfied with approach plates on Kindle, it seems singularly useless for a casual VFR renter like me. Cannot use it as a scratch pad either.
One alternative I am looking at right now is Archos 9. It's an older slab, even ships with XP. Users seem to love it. The battery life is a suspect though.
Another attractive device in the class is viliv x70. But I do not know anyone who's got one.
HP aside, I am giving the thought to exactly the same question right now. Fortunately for me, I have to use the slab from the left knee, and iPad is too big for it, so I am free from that temptation. It also uses capacitative input (e.g. finger instead of stylus), which again I find objectionable on the knee. I saw people butt-dial touchscreen smartphones before, and my left hand is too close to my knee. So IMHO iPad is strictly a dash or yoke-mount solution. Lost stylus? Please! How do you think I manage my pencil with which I jot down clearances? In a pinch, nail works for resistive input pads.
Kindle would be ideal wrt. display. The concerns about refresh rate are bogus, it's fully sunlight compatible, and new Kindles are better than ever at displaying PDFs such as approach plates... But Kindle is not a software platform, unless you root it. And no color. So while I know of folks who are very satisfied with approach plates on Kindle, it seems singularly useless for a casual VFR renter like me. Cannot use it as a scratch pad either.
One alternative I am looking at right now is Archos 9. It's an older slab, even ships with XP. Users seem to love it. The battery life is a suspect though.
Another attractive device in the class is viliv x70. But I do not know anyone who's got one.
Clark1961
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I took the easy way out and ordered a replacement screen from samsungparts.com.
Thanks for the input. Maybe a replacement next year. There are some nice options available, but none of them seemed like a major upgrade in terms of function.
Thanks for the input. Maybe a replacement next year. There are some nice options available, but none of them seemed like a major upgrade in terms of function.
bender52
Pre-Flight
I'm probably going to go with the HP Slate as well as a replacement for my HP TC-1100. I'm waiting on reviews for daylight readability and such.
CollinLeon
Pre-takeoff checklist
I was reading today where the Kindle has an 800x600 resolution screen. Not as much as I would like, but better than I originally thought.
Having had laptops decide to shutdown when their battery read in the 30% range, I take those percent figures with a grain of salt. I would probably trust the Kindle to maintain power throughout a flight since the battery last for days or even a month, but I would not trust the iPad to last. For the iPad, I would leave it hooked up to power all the time and then rely on the battery just for emergencies.
Not bad, but from what I've read, it is not that great in bright sunlight. This can be an issue in certain cockpits (e.g. Grumman AA1x-type full bubble canopies). I have an AA5A, so it's not quite as bad as the AA1x canopies, but there's still a lot of light coming in. Some of the TFT displays are bearable. The various laptop displays that I've tried over the years are often rather mediocre in full sunlight.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
The iPad shuts down at 2%. Not right when it hits 2%, but it doesn't make it to 1%. The percentage appears to be reasonably accurate, it doesn't seem to eat through any part of the range any faster than any other part.
Another point of reference - Madison at 100%, Philadelphia at 58%. The iPad is truly good for a full day of flying even on the battery. I also flew the Citabria to Gaston's with it and had plenty left over - And I was even able to get some weather info in flight. I sure don't count on that, though.
I forget exactly what the Grumman canopy looks like - Is there anything up top in the back seat? It works OK in the Diamond. I've used it standing outside the airplane on a bright sunny day. It's not ideal, but it's still quite usable. If you really want to, you can get matte display covers for it as well.