Los Angeles not only gets all of the water in Colorado, it gets the water that falls on Colorado.
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In Colorado, Rain and All your water belong to us
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Los Angeles not only gets all of the water in Colorado, it gets the water that falls on Colorado.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
I've never heard of that law but I don't have a rain barrel and all of my gray water goes into my septic field to irrigate the weeds.
Anthony
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When I moved to Colorado, I quickly discovered that water is one of the main value generator for real estate. They have an entire Water Court system that is very involved and complex. Maybe David will chime in here I hope.
Oh yeah and California can go pound sand for its water.
Oh yeah and California can go pound sand for its water.
K
KennyFlys
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When I moved to Colorado, I was blown away by the court battles that existed over water. That oversight is as big as any other agricuture monitoring in the state.
And, ditto on California.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Los Angeles not only gets all of the water in Colorado, it gets the water that falls on Colorado.
That is a major miss statement.
As a user of Colorado river water, I can assure you that Los Angeles does not get all the water. Acutally AZ gets most of the water out of the river, as does Southern NV, read, Las Vegas. Most of the remaining river water flows down between AZ NV and CA and is used for farm irregation on into Mexico. Los Angeles gets very little of the Colorado river.
Now.. most of the hydro electric power generated by the river water.. yes.. that goes off to CA.
Joe B
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Colorado was the scene of the first water wars back in the 1880's. Wars as in people actually killing each other over who had rights to the water. IIRC the first legal case was between Ft. Collins and a settlement downstream. Ft. Collins won, establishing the present system of water law that prevails throughout the arid west. After the decision the downstream settlement withered and blew away. The laws are very non-intuitive for anyone who grew up around lots of water. But they basically boil down to "Just because you can get your hands on it doesn't mean you're allowed to." Water rights do not automatically convey with land rights.
steingar
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Most of the water used in California goes into agriculture, used to be 90%, could be less now. They were growing rice in the desert back then.
Everskyward
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Haha. That's one thing I though was weird about the whole well and septic system we have out here, but I have long since gotten used to the idea. I think that's why lots have a minimum size (measured in acres) unless the developer puts in their own waste water system.
Obi Heed Kenobi
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Water law is an absolute nightmare here. There are water courts for each major river basin - you don't file disputes over water rights in the normal courthouse. There are specialized judges, specialized attorneys, etc.
I'm not going to get into the specifics, but the basic idea is that every single drop of water in this state gets allocated to someone. For instance, on a given stream, a mine might get 200 cubic feet per second (cfs) for the flumes, a rancher might get 300 cfs for his cattle, a farmer might get 800 cfs for irrigating the barley.
It's an absolute nightmare.
As other posters have pointed out, water is incredibly valuable here. If you have an unallocated spring on your property, your property might be worth upwards of $10M, even if it's nothing but mine tailings.
The idea with people trapping rainfall is that, by interfering with natural runoff patterns that in turn determine the water that gets into streams, you're actually taking someone else's private property - the "prior allocation system" discussed above means that, if you get 200 cfs, that's your property. If someone prevents you from getting that (i.e., by trapping rainfall), that someone is stealing from you.
It's a mess, and makes absolutely no sense to anyone who's not familiar with Colorado water law. But Colo.'s water law is also what makes this state - without a guaranteed source of water, mines, farmers, ranchers, and the entire ski industry would fail. And, water isn't exactly unlimited here.
So, while I understand why this doesn't make sense to people, the law is the way it is for a reason.
I'm not going to get into the specifics, but the basic idea is that every single drop of water in this state gets allocated to someone. For instance, on a given stream, a mine might get 200 cubic feet per second (cfs) for the flumes, a rancher might get 300 cfs for his cattle, a farmer might get 800 cfs for irrigating the barley.
It's an absolute nightmare.
As other posters have pointed out, water is incredibly valuable here. If you have an unallocated spring on your property, your property might be worth upwards of $10M, even if it's nothing but mine tailings.
The idea with people trapping rainfall is that, by interfering with natural runoff patterns that in turn determine the water that gets into streams, you're actually taking someone else's private property - the "prior allocation system" discussed above means that, if you get 200 cfs, that's your property. If someone prevents you from getting that (i.e., by trapping rainfall), that someone is stealing from you.
It's a mess, and makes absolutely no sense to anyone who's not familiar with Colorado water law. But Colo.'s water law is also what makes this state - without a guaranteed source of water, mines, farmers, ranchers, and the entire ski industry would fail. And, water isn't exactly unlimited here.
So, while I understand why this doesn't make sense to people, the law is the way it is for a reason.
Obi Heed Kenobi
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That's about the size of it.
Imagine if the stream running by my house flows at 1000 cfs. The people downstream get 950 cfs of that, I get 50. Those other people own that 950 cfs, and if they don't get it because of the actions of another, it's theft.
Suppose I dig a ditch and start using 100 cfs. The people downstream are only getting 900 cfs - suppose that 50 cfs was for watering barley, or for cattles' drinking, etc. I've not only stolen their water; I've also caused significant collateral damage if the crops or cattle die. Which in turn causes problems further down the supply chain.
So, like I said, the law makes no sense if you're not familiar with it, but it exists for a reason.
Make sure you don't flush too agressively. They own those drops.
I wonder how they control the waste from say, mopping your floor. Omigarsh! Some of that evaporates! I guess then it falls as rain which is OK. But what if the rain falls on another state?
Gary
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Interesting you should mention that. Did a mine closure up in north central CO (Walden). The property had a pretty significant water right off of the Canadian (?) river and, due to the mine, seepage out of the mine shaft (nice clean drinkable water). Those two things alone were worth much more than the property itself.
Unfortuately, due to some corporate shannigans, it was sold to a "friend" of the CEO at the time, for a pittance.
Gary
fgcason
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I'll do what I want and the water gustappo can go bark up another tree that's not there.
Real world numbers: Typically I use right at 25 gallons a week -- TOTAL. In conservation mode I use about 15 gallons a week and I've done 10 gallons a few times. My most excessively wasteful week in the last 2.5 years was 37 gallons.
Just think of all those open lakes without water conservation covers on them. That's borderline treason isn't it?
I'll be sure to remember this thread and smile every time I dump the black tank this summer over on the western slope.
Wait, WAIT Frank! I forgot you're in camper (which is why you know how much water is where). Why,...you could take fresh Colorado water and MOVE IT TO ANOTHER STATE!
After seeing David's post I recognize that that this is another regional perspective thing, like ATITAPA.
Those of us tapping Lake Michigan aren't going to get it....though there have been a few quiet "suggestions" to "borrow" Great Lakes water out to by youse guys. We'll have the shotguns ready.
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steingar
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Thank the FSM I live in a place where water just falls from the sky.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
It hasn't been doing that around here much recently...
That's the point. That water is not yours.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Who cares? There's enough for everyone, unless we start shipping it to Colorado.
gkainz
Final Approach
and the water that falls from the sky is not ours, either. I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread that we cannot capture rainwater and use for irrigation, et al ... we have to let it run off.
Ironically, I worked at a place for a while that was forced to allocate a huge annual annual budget for rainwater remediation. The rain water did not meet mandated cleanliness guidelines and had to be cleaned before it could be allowed to run off the property. And it HAD to run off the property, too. The irony was that testing of the rainwater proved it did not meet the guidelines BEFORE IT HIT THE GROUND! There ya' go, folks - your tax dollars at work.
Yeah, this was the same place that was not allowed to clean up certain areas of the site because such cleanup actions would jeopardize the Prebble's Jumping Mouse, an endangered species. Guess how you tell the difference between a Prebble's Jumping mouse and a common field mouse? Only by autopsy, I'm told.
Ironically, I worked at a place for a while that was forced to allocate a huge annual annual budget for rainwater remediation. The rain water did not meet mandated cleanliness guidelines and had to be cleaned before it could be allowed to run off the property. And it HAD to run off the property, too. The irony was that testing of the rainwater proved it did not meet the guidelines BEFORE IT HIT THE GROUND! There ya' go, folks - your tax dollars at work.
Yeah, this was the same place that was not allowed to clean up certain areas of the site because such cleanup actions would jeopardize the Prebble's Jumping Mouse, an endangered species. Guess how you tell the difference between a Prebble's Jumping mouse and a common field mouse? Only by autopsy, I'm told.
jmaynard
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Jay Maynard
Any traffic in the area, please...? Invert? Invade? Incapacitate?
Any traffic in the area, please...? Invert? Invade? Incapacitate?
I hate it so much I can't even say it to myself to abbreviate it properly.
tdager
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LittleIronPilot
Sorry but the last is nothing more than trying to justify complete BS when it comes to this issue.
The water falling from the sky belongs to NO ONE until it hits the ground, and then it belongs to the person on whose ground it fell until it hits a stream or creek....then it can get screwy. However to tell a citizen that they cannot collect rainwater? The CO government can go pound sand....
fgcason
En-Route
I could? Um, actually done it many times. My friends have too. We've smuggled it across the border both directions. I guess that's why we don't have a fixed address and move around a lot..otherwise they would be able to find us and send us to gitmo.
Every time it rains, I have standing water on the roof until it evaporates or blows off. Ooopsie. I'm vaguely considering a water collection system that fills my fresh water tank when it rains. Maybe in a couple years on the next motorhome...
<--- water bootlegger who can't take this nonsense seriously no matter how hard I try.
Obi Heed Kenobi
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If you don't live in Colorado, why do you care?
As I said - if you're not familiar with it, you won't really understand it. Colorado's dry, but no dry as to be incapable of supporting anything; for that reason, the public policy of the state is to allocate a scarce resource among competing users in accordance with a system that provides a degree of fairness and a benefit to both individuals and the state. As another poster has indicated, there have been some pretty serious fights over water.
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Obi Heed Kenobi
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Go figure - that's one of those things you find on a law school exam in your corporations class. "What claims could a shareholder file here?"
Obi Heed Kenobi
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It hasn't. We've gotten practically nothing through February here.
Have you been up to Summit or Grand recently? If so, I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about - all it's going to take is one doped up hippie forgetting to put out the camp fire, and those places are going to vanish in a puff of smoke. It's gotten so bad in Grand that insurance companies won't provide fire insurance over there.
Clear Creek isn't too bad, though. So I've got that going for me. I'll just be breathing the smoke blowing from multi-million dollar homes in Breckenridge. I hear that when you breathe smoke that valuable, it actually inoculates against lung cancer.