I'm thinking about joining the Air Force.

Ghery said:
I remember the old LORAN C station on Kodiak. Was doing a TEMPEST survey for the USCG in the late 1970s and that damned thing just about lifted the cans off my ears when I tuned through it if I wasn't fast enough on the IF gain or RF attenuator. Plenty of power in that transmitter.
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My dad's Bonanza still has a loran-c receiver. I fired it up on a flight over the holidays, and it said the last update was 1991. Probably good for nav right? :)
 
J. DeShazer said:
Thanks for the comparisons. Based on your replies, it seems my first step is basic training.
My bachelor's is on hold as of now, but I've heard that you can do armed forces training instead of college, as well. is this true? Like, does it count as a degree, or something different?
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You have to have a college degree to be a pilot in the Air Force.
 
Shepherd said:
You have to have a college degree to be a pilot in the Air Force.
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Agreed, I think he is getting confused over the "some (specific) enlisted technical training courses can count for college credits". To the OP, the amount of equivalency credits you can earn will not equate to the 4 year degree requirement for commissioning. I don't know off the top of my head, but I'd imagine the closest you would get in that realm is USN Nuclear Power School.....I was in NROTC with a bunch of those guys back in the day, and while their college program was accelerated, it still took them a good 2-3 years to knock out the actual degree in a dedicated full time student status.
 
35 AoA said:
My dad's Bonanza still has a loran-c receiver. I fired it up on a flight over the holidays, and it said the last update was 1991. Probably good for nav right? :)
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The database isn't the big problem...:)
 
JOhnH said:
I get jealous when I read young people with this option. I was draft eligible at the height of the Viet Nam war and at that time, enlisting was only for people with low draft numbers. I had actually planned to enlist every since I can remember, but when the time came, I just couldn't volunteer to go to Viet Nam. I had enough friends killed, or come back with horror stories, that I just couldn't do it. I still regret that decision today.

So... my recommendation is to enlist. The Air Force is as good as any and depending on your own goals and personality, may be the best choice. My older brother was in the Air Force and deployed as a bomb loader in Thailand at a time when we officially had no personnel in Thailand. He often refers to the Air Force as "civilians in uniform".

I think military service is the best thing you can do. I truly regret that I allowed the political climate at the time deter me.

But the picture showing the differences between the services left out one thing: The Picture describing the Air Force should have included a picture of a well manicured golf course. ;)
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Army, too. Eisenhower was an avid golfer. Which is why Army and AF bases have courses.
 
bobmrg said:
I beg to differ. During my twenty years I served on both coast, on the Gulf, on Okinawa, and on one of the Pribilof Islands. I never saw a golf course except on the DOD bases. When Congress passes out the money, the DOD gets the lion's share. In the Trump budget the USCG will take a 34% cut. My point was not about golf courses so much as it was creature comforts....the USAF just treats its folks better because it can afford to.

Bob
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The cut is really strange. On the other hand, I've always thought it was stupid to move USCG into DHS but what do I know?
 
My advice might be a bit outdated because I am not sure of the Status of what used to be called the "GI Bill". If a young person enlists in the service, are they still entitled to educational benefits that will allow them to get their college degree later? When I was in college, some of the best, brightest, most motivated and most disciplined students were ex-military on the GI Bill.

IF that benefit still exists, then I strongly believe that is a great path for a young person. Get experience. Learn to respect yourself. Save up for college. And I think these guys get twice as much out of college as the typical kid that is going to school on their parents dime, OR taking out huge loans that they party with because they expect the loans will be forgiven.
 
JOhnH said:
... If a young person enlists in the service, are they still entitled to educational benefits that will allow them to get their college degree later? ...
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Yes. Post-9/11 GI Bill is available still. Excellent benefit.

Of the prior-Enlisted officers I worked with in my career, most used tuition assistance for their bachelor's degree then applied to OTS, which can be a tough board in the Air Force, especially for pilot slots. Essentially OTS is the 'shock-absorber' for our other accession programs. Some did their 4-6 years, knocking out their first two-years of college, then applied for an ROTC program. Maturity and discipline usually was higher than their peers and, if they were physically qualified for pilot, they usually got a pilot slot. I know two (2) that went enlisted to USAFA. Neither got a pilot slot since neither was able to pass the initial flight physical.
 
TCABM said:
Neither got a pilot slot since neither was able to pass the initial flight physical.
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I had an appointment to USAFA when I learned I didn't qualify for a pilot slot due to color vision deficiency. Went USMA instead and became a Redleg (Artillery).
 
GlennAB1 said:
If you enlist in the Air Force, make sure you get a specialty that transitions to a civilian career that pays enough to live on. Do some research before committing.
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Hmm, good point. I talked to a retired Air Force engineer yesterday, and he helped a lot in my decision making process as well. Just a few more questions, though.
Does timing matter when enlisting? Like, does basic training (which if I'm not mistaken, takes six months) have a set schedule?
 
J. DeShazer said:
Hmm, good point. I talked to a retired Air Force engineer yesterday, and he helped a lot in my decision making process as well. Just a few more questions, though.
Does timing matter when enlisting? Like, does basic training (which if I'm not mistaken, takes six months) have a set schedule?
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Basic training in the AF is like 6 weeks last time I checked. Your MOS school after basic could be 6 months if it's a very technical field.

Timing matters, along with high ASVAB scores, if you want a certain MOS. The recruiters will try and fill MOSs that are short of people first. If it's something you really want to do, then stick to your guns and hold out. Or, do what I did and go somewhere else that will offer the MOS you want.
 
J. DeShazer said:
Hmm, good point. I talked to a retired Air Force engineer yesterday, and he helped a lot in my decision making process as well. Just a few more questions, though.
Does timing matter when enlisting? Like, does basic training (which if I'm not mistaken, takes six months) have a set schedule?
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Air Force basic is 6 weeks, not 6 months. Timing only matters for a guaranteed job. Give a look at Air Force ATC if you want a good job skill to take with you after your enlistment. If you get your degree while in you can apply for OCS and try for a pilot spot after that.
 
Finish your degree first!!!!. Once your are in you will never get it done.
 
Tech schools can be lengthy - last I looked, some can be the better part of a year.

Timing does matter, but it may not be visible to you - it can be dependent on how well a particluar recruiting station is doing. Later in the fiscal year is sometimes better.

Understand that meeting the minimum requirements doesn't guarantee you enlistment; is often competetive, especially for the Air Force and Coast Guard. Can be for Navy, as well. Same for Marines and Army, if you want a more technical job. There are minimum scores for some specialties, and while you might make the cut for enlistment, you might not get the speciality you want. Read up on testing for the services you are interested in - beyond just the ASVAB. You can improve scores with prep, and they don't all use the same testing.

Show up at the recruiting office as if it's a job interview. Because it is. Shoes, socks, long pants, shirt with a collar. Many/most will prefer you call first, make an appointment. If you're college age, don't bring your parents. Be prepared to answer 'Why do you want to enlist" - it's OK to be honest about getting training, VA for school, etc., but your answer needs to include some genuine desire for service to country.

If you score well, don't have a criminal record, and aren't overweight, be aware that you can/can negotiate for things like a guaranteed speciality, advanced rank, departure date, assigment location,and, some years, even a bonus.

It is common for enlisted candidates to have some college - I know Coast Guard candidates routinely having two or more years was defintley not unusual.

Other than Air Force, basic training can be rough, if you're immature, not fit, or just looking for a job. Marine basic is amoung the most demanding entry-level basic trainings in the civilized world. Coast Guard boot camp is no walk in the park, either, and can take people by surprise. Same-same for Army and Navy.
 
N3368K said:
I had an appointment to USAFA when I learned I didn't qualify for a pilot slot due to color vision deficiency. Went USMA instead and became a Redleg (Artillery).
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I had a slot in the army for OCS and then a slot for flight training. But a simple bone injury towards the end of my enlistment ended any thought of flying for the army.
 
As a former Navy enlisted (Submarines Reagan years!) I will add: The percentage of of enlisted that go on to being an officer is quite low and I would never plan (or depend) on that as career path. I went to college afterwards and always kinda wished I had done college first.

If you goal is to become a airline pilot after minimum military service (as a officer) I strongly suggest you complete your degree first and then go the OCS route. If you had a shot at any of the military academies you wouldn't be asking us this question so it sounds like that option is out. You want to be entering the military with a post military marketable college degree which the service will also like (especially math, physics, engineering, etc). If you join and wash out of flight training you'll still be serving you obligation! If you become a military aviator you'll get all those hours towards the majors.

I will also recommend something as it seems "right" but hopefully others will chime in if I way off base. While finishing your degree, spend another $10k of your money and get your private pilot license. You could find out that aviation isn't your cup of tea. And I would think entering OCS with a PPL would notch you up a bit for selection to a flight program...shows dedication and that you won't be puking all the time.

If you were my son I'd recommend getting a engineering or computer science degree, join OCS and go Navy or Marines for aviation :)
 
murphey said:
The cut is really strange. On the other hand, I've always thought it was stupid to move USCG into DHS but what do I know?
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Made as much sense as being under Treasury, as it was when I enlisted. At least there is some connection between Homeland Security and the USCG mission.
Bob
 
bobmrg said:
Made as much sense as being under Treasury, as it was when I enlisted. At least there is some connection between Homeland Security and the USCG mission.
Bob
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Probably had something to do with the original name of Revenue Cutter Service.
 
murphey said:
The cut is really strange. On the other hand, I've always thought it was stupid to move USCG into DHS but what do I know?
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There is a reason we used to call the CG Uncle Sam's Confused Group. It was a most fitting nickname. They are the classic example of 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

To put it in perspective, what the Coast Guard is responsible for in the maritime world is handled on the aviation side by: The FAA, TSA, CBP, USAF and the even the USN. And you could probably build some arguments for a few other federal agencies as well.

Consequently, the Coast Guard does very few of their missions sets well and the right pinkie doesn't have a flippin' clue what the right index finger is doing let alone what any fingers on the left hand are up to.

God bless you guys who served in the USCG. I could never have put up with that level of BS.
 
I did ROTC, got a pilot slot and served 12 years on AD as a pilot. I transitioned to the ANG almost 6 years ago.

I'd say you need a more specific goal in mind - do you want to be a military aviator? Do you want to join to experience the military and get money for school? These paths are DRASTICALLY different.

What has been said is true though - the qol in the USAF is typically far greater than the other services.
 
Bob Hoover and Chuck Yeager didn't need no stinking degree! :D
 
EvilEagle said:
I'd say you need a more specific goal in mind - do you want to be a military aviator? Do you want to join to experience the military and get money for school? These paths are DRASTICALLY different.
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This. Regardless of the service, there is BS to deal with. If you aren't really determined, it is hard for most folks to put up with the BS to get to the cockpit.

The folks I've run across in both AF and Navy that 'thought' they might want to be a pilot but didn't have the drive, all washed out.
 
If you're willing to kill other people for money for college and flying you could probably make more with one of the cartels if you speak Spanish, also wouldn't cost the tax payers any money. Same job (nowadays that is), diffrent uniform.
 
Velocity173 said:
Lol! It never get old with James around.
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I would agree except that it really. Does. Get. Old.

Same shtick, every thread that could possibly/remotely involve the military (obviously this one was going to get it). OP: if you are going to be in the military you might as well start learning that there are people you would/will be fighting for that don't appreciate, respect or acknowledge your sacrifice - many of them will go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they don't support the military. Roll eyes, move on.
 
EvilEagle said:
I would agree except that it really. Does. Get. Old.

Same shtick, every thread that could possibly/remotely involve the military (obviously this one was going to get it). OP: if you are going to be in the military you might as well start learning that there are people you would/will be fighting for that don't appreciate, respect or acknowledge your sacrifice - many of them will go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they don't support the military. Roll eyes, move on.
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I was just waiting for it thinking, I wonder how many pages James will let this go before he blesses us with his wisdom?
 
EvilEagle said:
I would agree except that it really. Does. Get. Old.

Same shtick, every thread that could possibly/remotely involve the military (obviously this one was going to get it). OP: if you are going to be in the military you might as well start learning that there are people you would/will be fighting for that don't appreciate, respect or acknowledge your sacrifice - many of them will go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they don't support the military. Roll eyes, move on.
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As it's the same with you too, join the millitary, do the politicians bidding and they'll through ya some scraps for college.

Always good for people to hear both sides, no?
 
James331 said:
As it's the same with you too, join the millitary, do the politicians bidding and they'll through ya some scraps for college.

Always good for people to hear both sides, no?
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Definitely up for an adult discussion; the military is certainly not for everyone! Honestly most people I talk to, I end up talking them out of joining because they are doing it for the wrong reasons. (IMHO)

What you should notice about our "discussions" is only your side (basically just you) has to resort to name calling, denigrating, agitation and trash talk time and again. The rest of the adults just discuss.
 
EvilEagle said:
Definitely up for an adult discussion; the military is certainly not for everyone! Honestly most people I talk to, I end up talking them out of joining because they are doing it for the wrong reasons. (IMHO)

What you should notice about our "discussions" is only your side (basically just you) has to resort to name calling, denigrating, agitation and trash talk time and again. The rest of the adults just discuss.
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No naming calling has occurred.

Just facts, you are there to kill the "enemy" who is picked out for you by politicians, who have been proven time and time again to be corrupt.

Our government has been known to have interest in the drug trades and other shady stuff, heck our CIA just dropped that huge MOAB bomb on the tunnels the CIA helped build.

Compared to the money special interests makes, you're given scraps to kill and perhaps be killed for their agendas.

You would also be killing/dying for a higher ups interests working for a cartel and you'd make more money. Of course that's "illegal" just as most things government does would be considered illegal if done by any group other than "the government".


Long and short, I just like to post these little factoids when everyone starts their dance around the flag when some young person debates joining up.
 
I was fine with killing for my country. . .target selection by politician was also fine with me - they were elected, after all. Letting me pick and chose would have been ill advised; my grasp of geo-politics was abysmal in my youth. . .

There are dark forces, selfish agendas, and depraved actors served in all conflicts; it would be naive to believe otherwise. But, also childish to acknowledge only those elements, and be blind to larger, more honorable goals, serving national necessities, or even national survival.

Some people just need killin'; that implies someone must be up for the job.
 
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Sundancer said:
I was fine with killing for my country. . .target selection by politician was also fine with me - they were elected, after all. Letting me pick and chose would have been ill advised; my grasp of geo-politics was abysmal in my youth. . .

There are dark forces, selfish agendas, and depraved actors served in all conflicts; it would be naive to believe otherwise. But, also childish to acknowledge only those elements, and be blind to larger, more honorable goals, serving national necessities, or even national survival.

Some people just need killin'; that implies someone must be up for the job.
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"Elected" yeah, did you miss all the leaked emails where the DNC ejected canadates they didn't like, it ain't a election man, the die was cast long before you went into that little voting booth.



....So why not kill for a cartel?

Pays more, you can still take the mindless automaton of its not your place to ask why the higher ups do what they do, kinda like the whole god works in mysterious ways bit, and you'll also make more money, same outcome of inflicting misery and your bosses will on those opposed who are not as well armed.

Shoot a guy while having USMC tatted on your arm, make lower middle range income

Shoot a guy with some Spanish symbol tatted on your arm, make 6 figures tax free.

If you're going to kill for money and not care or ask why, might as well kill for the highest bidder eh?
 
Velocity173 said:
Yep.

https://www.airforce.com/pdf/BMT_FullSchedule.pdf
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Its really bad now. Before I deployed in 2014 I had to go to Lackland for a mini-SERE class. Bunch of slick sleeves and no name tapes walking around the mini mall playing on their phones. Apparently you get an hour a day for "me" time or something. Shoot, I got to go to the mini mall once in 8 weeks and got one phone call :) A friend that is a MTI told me you are not allowed to make them "push Texas" without having to fill out a bunch of paperwork now.
 
jaybee said:
Its really bad now. Before I deployed in 2014 I had to go to Lackland for a mini-SERE class. Bunch of slick sleeves and no name tapes walking around the mini mall playing on their phones. Apparently you get an hour a day for "me" time or something. Shoot, I got to go to the mini mall once in 8 weeks and got one phone call :) A friend that is a MTI told me you are not allowed to make them "push Texas" without having to fill out a bunch of paperwork now.
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Oh it's gotten bad in every branch. :D

 
James331 said:
"Elected" yeah, did you miss all the leaked emails where the DNC ejected canadates they didn't like, it ain't a election man, the die was cast long before you went into that little voting booth.



....So why not kill for a cartel?

Pays more, you can still take the mindless automaton of its not your place to ask why the higher ups do what they do, kinda like the whole god works in mysterious ways bit, and you'll also make more money, same outcome of inflicting misery and your bosses will on those opposed who are not as well armed.

Shoot a guy while having USMC tatted on your arm, make lower middle range income

Shoot a guy with some Spanish symbol tatted on your arm, make 6 figures tax free.

If you're going to kill for money and not care or ask why, might as well kill for the highest bidder eh?
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You have a naive view of your own autonomy and a deficient view of authority. I'm always interested in a good debate but you haven't expressed any points worthy of debate. Throwing out non-sequitors as a challenge is not the same as stimulating a fruitful discussion. Why don't you tell us what you are for instead of repeatedly voicing what you are obviously against?

There's corruption in politics and waste and abuse with our money. Ok, when has that not been the case? You think the answer is to have no military? Would you rather not be defended at all? It seems your plan is to demoralize and discourage those who have taken up the task, what purpose does that serve? Do you want everyone to despise authority to the degree that you do? People like you have increasingly gained influence over the last decade and eventually you and your kind will reap what you sow. You might want to consider the consequences of your ideas before they bear their fruit, the protections and stability you now enjoy are like a plucked flower, they won't last forever.
 
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