I'm officially an instrument student!

Rebel Lord

Rebel Lord

Line Up and Wait
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Rebel Lord
Took my first instrument instruction (albeit ground instruction) I'm really hyped and spirits are high! :)

Anyone have story's from their instrument student days they want to share?
 
Rebel Lord said:
Took my first instrument instruction (albeit ground instruction) I'm really hyped and spirits are high! :)

Anyone have story's from their instrument student days they want to share?
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I was doing the NDB approach to SAN. It was straight in to RW27. Had it nailed, I was feelin good. Instructor says take off the hood and look. It was the Naval Hospital at Balboa Park. I'm wondering, how did that get way up here. We chatted about that a little. When scheduling the next lesson he told me to write 50 times "Thou shalt not descend below the minimum descent altitude until thou haveth the airport in sight" and bring it in. He was serious. I dideth it.
 
What Jordane said. Flying in the goo is different enough than under the hood that the exposure to it as a student is valuable.
 
Make friends with private pilots with current medicals (flight review currency optional) to be safety pilots. Don't use them to build hours until your instructor says you're ready to practice specific things with a safety pilot, but have them ready to go. My rating has gone really slowly between "learn it all with instructor" and "have enough hours for the test" because it's been hard to find safety pilots with free time to go blast holes through the sky. Maybe you will be able to get all 40 hours with your instructor in a reasonable time, and that should be your Plan A, but don't go in without a good Plan B in case your instructor gets busy. Probably most CFII's also have day jobs.
 
Rebel Lord said:
My instructor is not afraid to go up into actual so I'm looking forward to my chance to go into the clouds.
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Another thing to consider is doing some of your training after dark.

Congratulations and way-to-go in deciding to go after the rating. Even if you wind up not using it a lot, it makes you a safer pilot and helps you to understand the system. Fly as frequently as you can, but don't plan more than an hour or so at a time. You get worn out from all the mental and physical stress. I could really tell the difference in my flying on the gages if life got in the way and I missed a week or so. Study when you aren't flying, and have a good time.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Took my first instrument instruction (albeit ground instruction) I'm really hyped and spirits are high! :)

Anyone have story's from their instrument student days they want to share?
Click to expand...
We're all instrument students...even after many years with the ticket :) Congratulations, you are on the next step of a fun journey. +1 to getting as much actual as you can. And a home sim, even a simple one, can be super helpful in learning procedures etc.
 
somorris said:
Another thing to consider is doing some of your training after dark.
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Yes:yeahthat:

Did all of mine after dark during the week... a.) my favorite plane was always available and never had to worry about getting it back for someone else, b.) my training was in the Los Angeles basin... ATC was not too busy and very accommodating (back-course into KSNA being one) c.) my instructor and I had regular daytime jobs and this turned out to be a great "happy hour" for me. With this, we got in some great actual time as well due the late afternoon early morning marine layer.

Flying IFR under the hood is one thing, flying actual IFR another, but flying actual IFR at night... a real confidence booster for me. Nothing like popping out at about 600' with the runaway lights lined up and saying "land here - land here - land here"
 
Agreed, train after dark and go up in IMC as much as you can. The airplane still flies the same but the psychological factor is not negligible.
And find out how well you can tolerate and recover from spatial disorientation.
 
Good for you! You're lucky to have someone willing to go up in actual. That is the best way to learn. You should blog your instrument training experience.
 
Make sure you do some 0/0 take-offs. Very interesting :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Any here *actually* done an absolutely true 0/0 takeoff? I mean a true 0/0, not 1/100 of a mile, but ZERO.
Well I have, and it was the most stupid thing I have ever done. Live (luckily) and learn.
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I did it as a student, though I can't swear it was true 0/0, but the runway center lights were not visible once we lined up. Not sure how one would line up accurately in absolute ZERO vis.
But the point is, if you do align with the runway somehow, and then hope your DG doesn't precess much before you get high enough to clear the runway edge lights if you drift sideways, the rest is routine. Maybe stupid, but quite common back in the day and my CFII didn't make much out of it. Would I do it today? Not in peacetime.
 
Rebel Lord said:
Took my first instrument instruction (albeit ground instruction) I'm really hyped and spirits are high! :)

Anyone have story's from their instrument student days they want to share?
Click to expand...

It took me so long to get my private (23 years) that I vowed I would do an accelerated course for the instrument. Took me 2 weeks in Ocala FL 6 months after I got my private. Great experience. Did the simulator time first, then the flight time. Another pilot and myself did it at the same time in his 182. When I was training he'd be in the back seat, when he was training I'd be in the back seat observing. We even did the oral together. The examiner would ask me a question and then ask the other guy one. Very relaxed. Oral was more like a conversation and he was a 'teaching' examiner. Really good experience. I passed, the other guy didn't because of the flight portion. He was probably around 70 at the time and his piloting skills were eroding some.

After you take the check ride, at least in my experience, especially doing an accelerated course flying all that time every day, that might be the most proficient you'll ever be unless you eventually find something flying instrument all the time.
 
EminiTrader said:
Make sure you do some 0/0 take-offs. Very interesting :)
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I would suggest never doing this in a GA plane. I did it once when I was young in a C401 because my boss told me to and I was too young/dumb to tell him no.

I would suggest never taking off in a GA airplane when you can't get back into your departure airport in case of emergency.

Just my $0.02
 
RotorDude said:
I did it as a student, though I can't swear it was true 0/0, but the runway center lights were not visible once we lined up. Not sure how one would line up accurately in absolute ZERO vis.
But the point is, if you do align with the runway somehow, and then hope your DG doesn't precess much before you get high enough to clear the runway edge lights if you drift sideways, the rest is routine. Maybe stupid, but quite common back in the day and my CFII didn't make much out of it. Would I do it today? Not in peacetime.
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My episode was as stupid as it gets. Truly not 1 inch of vis. Freezing rain coated the windshield. Had to open the DV window to line up on rwy 28 in ALB. Set the heading and hoped for the best.

Now, before everyone gets up in arms about taking off in freezing rain.... you're right. That was one stupid part of the puzzle. That said, the airplane did have anti ice fluid coating. Obviously not the windshield though... which brings up another point. If I couldn't de ice the windshield how could the aircraft possibly be fiki certified?
Well, I honestly don't remember the details as this was the late 1980's. Anyway, at the time I believed I was legal, and with the exception of the glazed window, safe.

I was lucky and lived through it to learn from it, and hopefully pass on my experience to others.

FWIW, it was a C310
 
Kritchlow said:
Truly not 1 inch of vis. ... Had to open the DV window to line up on rwy 28 in ALB. Set the heading and hoped for the best
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That's the part I don't get. How do you line up (and it obviously has to be more accurate than normal) with "truly not 1 inch of vis"? And if it's hyperbole, then what was the real vis?
 
RotorDude said:
That's the part I don't get. How do you line up (and it obviously has to be more accurate than normal) with "truly not 1 inch of vis"? And if it's hyperbole, then what was the real vis?
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Out the little side window. Opened it and tried to line up. (we called it a DV window). Lined up as best as possible and let it rip. No hyperbole. Zero vis. Windshield 100% glazed.
 
Kritchlow said:
Out the little side window. Opened it and tried to line up. (we called it a DV window). Lined up as best as possible and let it rip. No hyperbole. Zero vis. Windshield 100% glazed.
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OK, don't want to labor the point, but if it's truly less than an inch, no hyperbole, as you say, what can you see outside the window? Even the ground straight down is more than an inch, outside of Lilliput.
 
RotorDude said:
OK, don't want to labor the point, but if it's truly less than an inch, no hyperbole, as you say, what can you see outside the window? Even the ground straight down is more than an inch, outside of Lilliput.
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As I said... I opened the side window to look out and line up. Closed the window for takeoff.

Not sure what needs to be explained here??
 
Kritchlow said:
As I said... I opened the side window to look out and line up. Closed the window for takeoff.

Not sure what needs to be explained here??
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Do you think maybe you could have actually seen an inch and therefore it technically wasn't a zero-zero takeoff? ;)
 
BrianNC said:
Do you think maybe you could have actually seen an inch and therefore it technically wasn't a zero-zero takeoff? ;)
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Nope. Windshield 100% glazed with ice.
I'm not sure what more needs to be said.
 
Kritchlow said:
As I said... I opened the side window to look out and line up. Closed the window for takeoff.

Not sure what needs to be explained here??
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If you are joking, or exaggerating, then nothing more is needed. But if you are serious, then if you saw anything at all out the window, to allow you to line up, it means you could see runway markings or lights, all of which would have to be well past "an inch", hence vis was not true zero-zero.
 
Kritchlow said:
Nope. Windshield 100% glazed with ice.
I'm not sure what more needs to be said.
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If it's a windshield issue, then it might as well have been CAVU with a hood on. I thought we were discussing actual low vis conditions, not window problems.
 
RotorDude said:
If you are joking, or exaggerating, then nothing more is needed. But if you are serious, then if you saw anything at all out the window, to allow you to line up, it means you could see runway markings or lights, all of which would have to be well past "an inch", hence vis was not true zero-zero.
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RotorDude said:
If you are joking, or exaggerating, then nothing more is needed. But if you are serious, then if you saw anything at all out the window, to allow you to line up, it means you could see runway markings or lights, all of which would have to be well past "an inch", hence vis was not true zero-zero.
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no!!
Let me put it to you this way:
You live in the north. You get into your car after an ice storm and your windshield is 100% covered in ice. You can see NOTHING.
You open your side window to look out. You need to roll it down to see as it is also covered with opaque ice. Looking out the unrolled window you line up straight on the street. You then roll up the window and give it the gas.
 
Kritchlow said:
no!!
Let me put it to you this way:
You live in the north. You get into your car after an ice storm and your windshield is 100% covered in ice. You can see NOTHING.
You open your side window to look out. You need to roll it down to see as it is also covered with opaque ice. Looking out the unrolled window you line up straight on the street. You then roll up the window and give it the gas.
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Yes, I get that. But that's similar to hood-takeoff, which is not quite the same thing as zero-zero takeoff.
 
RotorDude said:
Yes, I get that. But that's similar to hood-takeoff, which is not quite the same thing as zero-zero takeoff.
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Wrong. You can't see an inch outside the window for real. No instructor to help even if he was there. He couldn't see either.
 
Plus I said "zero visibility" takeoff. Which it was.
 
Radar Contact said:
I would suggest never doing this in a GA plane. I did it once when I was young in a C401 because my boss told me to and I was too young/dumb to tell him no.

I would suggest never taking off in a GA airplane when you can't get back into your departure airport in case of emergency.

Just my $0.02
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Lots of people say that.

It's quite wrong. Returning to your starting point involves a lot of doubling back, a poor choice with an emergency if you have any alternatives.

If I have an emergency in IMC leaving Palo Alto, I'm not returning to Palo Alto. I'm lining up with San Carlos or San Francisco if I have enough power to get over obstructions, and landing in bay mud otherwise, while avoiding Facebook. If pigs are flying and 13 is in use, I'm landing at Moffett.
 
So far, nobody I asked in the past could answer me this simple question: "if you are doing a 0/0 takeoff where you cannot see the rwy centerline, how in the heck did you get to the rwy in the first place?" :)
 
BigBadLou said:
So far, nobody I asked in the past could answer me this simple question: "if you are doing a 0/0 takeoff where you cannot see the rwy centerline, how in the heck did you get to the rwy in the first place?" :)
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Good point. lol.
 
mtuomi said:
Out of curiosity, how were you certain you wouldn't have to do a zero visibility landing immediately afterwards?
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I wasn't. At that young tender point in my career I'm not sure that ever entered my mind.
That said..

1) once airborne freezing rain turns into rain rather quickly.

2) things were much different back then. You needed 1000 pic multi to get a look from the commuters... more to get hired. Many pilots did many things they are not proud of during that period in history. I could tell you SEVERAL stories that many here would blow their lid about.
Back then it was "survival of the fittest, and you better effing prove it"..,, if you wanted to advance.
I do understand it's a different ballgame today.

3) I believe I already stated it was a silly thing to do..??
 
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