IFR trip in Europe - UK to Greece

P

peter-h

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
613
Location
UK
Display Name
Display name:
peter-h
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete2

This article describes an IFR (airways) trip from Shoreham (EGKA) to Sitia (LGST) in Crete, via Losinj (LDLO) in Croatia, and back via a small airfield in Greece, Kerkira/Corfu (LGKR) in Greece, and Zadar (LDZD) in Croatia.
 
I scanned the post and am very much looking forward to the full read. Great use of GA. Do you write these things as you go? or upon return? They are so incredibly detailed.
 
The writing is driven by a sequence of photos which I normally take on a trip. I select a few to go into the body of the article, and then write a bit of text to go between them. I do a little bit each evening of the trip; say half an hour. As each location is done with, I select a few dozen photos for that location (ones that did not appear in the body of the article) and run off the photo gallery (using an automation feature in Photoshop - you just copy the images into one directory and PS produces the HTML photo gallery in another directory). When I get back home, there is very little to do; just add in the departure weather (which I usually do not have with me on the trip because it was obtained after the laptop etc was packed up) and a few bits. Total time for this article was about 10 hours. I'd never do it upon return because I would never get around to it :)

The reason I do it is to help pilots progress. Judging from the hundreds of emails I get each year, it works. Only the other day somebody wrote that without reading these articles he would have never gone on to do the IR.

Europe is not like the USA, where you get your PPL in any old school, fly a bit, and get the IR in the same school and probably with the same instructor. Here, you have a mountain of hassle to climb.
 
Fascinating write-up. Sounds like flying in Europe is a major hassle. Euro AOPA has a lot of work to do. What a shame too -- a strong GA sector would make European travel so much easier (and generate more tourism Euros!!).

What a fantastic trip. To me, at least, flying to different countries is a lot more interesting than flying to different states. I flew across the US and back and didn't have 1/2 the adventure you did.

Thanks for the post. One question -- you mention the lack of avgas at many of these facilities. Is Jet-A more readily available?
 
Yes, if you can burn avtur then you have many more options if flying internationally.

Practically every airport which has Customs also has avtur. And it is usually a lot cheaper too.

This is what made the Diamond diesels so attractive.... until Mr Thielert dropped a few spanners into the party and killed off trust in the technology for probably a decade ;)
 
peter-h said:
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/crete2

This article describes an IFR (airways) trip from Shoreham (EGKA) to Sitia (LGST) in Crete, via Losinj (LDLO) in Croatia, and back via a small airfield in Greece, Kerkira/Corfu (LGKR) in Greece, and Zadar (LDZD) in Croatia.
Click to expand...

I've always enjoyed your great stories and pictures; thank you for continuing to share the adventures!
 
After reading that write up I'm happy I fly here in the US. Wow there is a lot of crap to deal with in Europe. Sounds like an amzing trip though. I like the website for the Mare Mare Hotel The packages are interesting to say the least, A romance package, a "family pilot package" and a Dental package.

Curious since you fly an US registered plane how does it work with the annuals if you are out of the US?
 
The world is full of US registered planes :)

Anybody can do the work (in general terms) and an A&P/IA is needed to sign off the Annual.

There are plenty of A&Ps working freelance, and a fair number of IAs too. I know several IAs myself.

There are not so many FAA Repair Stations though, which doesn't matter except that the bi-annual static check (altimeters etc) needs to be done by an RS and I know of only one RS in the south of the UK which has the equipment.

I understand that the FAA is now making it hard for new Repair Stations to set up outside the USA. The FAA can certainly make it difficult to process 337s; outside the USA you cannot just pick any U.S. FSDO; you have to send it to the NY International Field Office, and if they don't play ball then you are slightly stuffed. There is a route around this, involving a DER to generate approved data, but it is a lot more expensive. For this reason I had to give up (after trying about 4 times) getting my KLN94 GPS approved for IFR apart from its present enroute approval (i.e. for flying GPS approaches), but this is not an issue since GPS approaches are not operationally relevant in Europe anyway.
 
Man, Peter, every time I read one of your exceptionally-detailed reports, I want to squeal for joy at how fortunate we are here.

I can get up at 6:00am, plan a flight, be at the field by 7:00 am and airborne by 7:30, making changes as I choose.

Whenever you are here, you're welcome to fly with me anytime.
 
Fortunately, IFR route development is no longer an issue in Europe, thanks to the FlightPlanPro automated tool which iteratively develops a route acceptable to the computer in Brussels.

The main issues I see are

- general shortage of airports
- most "GA" airfields have no instrument approach
- lack of avgas at many airports
- many flights need Customs
- PPR/PNR
- airport costs (landing / mandatory handling)
- airport opening hours
- EASA threatening to strip US licensed pilots of their privileges
- over 1999kg, route charges if IFR or at night

Other than that, no problem :)

It is possible to file an IFR flight plan and depart within 15 minutes, or as soon as the tower says they have got it.
 
What is the purpose of the persistent PPR requirements? From what I have observed in your posts, and others related to flying in Europe, there is no shortage of airspace or ramp space...
 
SCCutler said:
What is the purpose of the persistent PPR requirements? From what I have observed in your posts, and others related to flying in Europe, there is no shortage of airspace or ramp space...
Click to expand...

It is more a cultural thing relating to the need of someone to exert contol over every flight. A number of these countries have been either communist or military dictatorships until not so long ago. In other places, PPR is their way to ensure that you are aware of their local noise abatement procedures so you don't inadvertently risk the future of the airport with your noisy departure right over some local big whigs house.
 
Last edited:
PPR is widespread both in "modern" Europe and the other bits, equally.

It is almost universally a job creation scheme. The more south you get in Europe, the more job creation goes on, but airports generally are run like it was still the 1970s, with union-run job demarcation etc. Mention the magic word ("safety") and nobody can touch you.

Pilots are perfectly capable of briefing themselves from the charts. After all, you don't phone up an airport to get their ILS frequency :)

The only semi charitable explanation I can think of is for the case of "PNR Customs" which saves having a Customs presence during all airport opening hours. This is quite common in France. However, that itself is largely a consequence of another job creation scheme: different categories of "police" for different jobs. In the Croatian islands, for example, they somehow manage to use the same (1) policeman for all these jobs....

I could post the hilarious details, supplied to a Spanish speaking friend of mine, of why San Sebastian (Spain, LESO) no longer accepts international traffic despite being an international airport (briefly, they are unable to get the right kind of policeman to turn up for work).

None of this would be much of an issue if all airports published accurate fax/email details, and it is usually not an issue if you can speak the local language - excepting cases where the PPL needs to be obtained in writing (Corfu LGKR in Greece is one example which turned back a group of inbound pilots last year, who had obtained PPR by phone only).

Edit: PPR is normal for private strips, where you need the owner's permission. It is same in the USA, IIRC; when I did the IR in Arizona there was an airpark nearby and they did not even like people flying near it, and landing there was out of the question. There are also many strips which do not have full Planning Permission for aviation and operate under some concession, and they try to limit movements and discourage visitors. Some also are "PPR" under a deal with the local authority. But this does not apply to public airports which should be open to all, during published opening hours. H24 airports are rarely PPR/PNR but if you are not careful you can get into the $500-$1000/landing fee department :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top