IFR training

4

4RNB

Line Up and Wait
PoA Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
961
Display Name
Display name:
4RNB
I've had my private about two months now, getting more serious about Sporty's online ground school, should finish it this weekend. I will then take some practice tests and see how well I do before scheduling.

I need to do more online Foreflight learning!

Things I've been told:
Pay for Shepherd to do well on the test, not to learn.
Build cross country time talking with flight following to build radio skills, doing that some, more expected.
Learn performance characteristics of my plane that will be needed for IFR flights, I assume this is for climbs and descents. I'd like guidance on what this entails so I can do it some on my own.

I expect that once I pass my written that I will get anxious to get licensed. CFII not lined up yet. I might try and hire some individuals to get me enough exposure to do well on the written and/or better qualify me for accelerated training. I think this is about 10 hours instrument time.

For the accelerated I am considering three options:
1- Hire in a very experienced pilot to come stay with us and do all the flying, same guy that came for a lot of the private. I'd need to be focused on the standards and make sure he was willing to sign me to test (he is a CFII but does not send many to test).
2. A local OBXflight LLC that seems well reviewed. Likely a long waitlist but I could go at the jump of a hat if someone cancels.
3. Randy Longchamps, think he has a spot in a couple months.
I will consider the equivalent of each of the above along with other choices that crop up. I am willing to hire the CFI that signed me to test but he has not yet received his CFII as best I can tell.

I learned from my private to focus on the ACS!

So my questions:
What performance stuff for a C 172 should I learn? Please be specific.
Should I hire a CFII or just a safety pilot to build IFR time?
Are there other accelerated programs to consider?
What else can I be mindful of now to help the heavy training later?
 
Performance stuff:

The most important thing is find the airspeed and rpm that will bring you down at 3 degrees in no wind condition. Probably about 2000 RPM and a little over 80 knots will be in the ballpark. Cut the speed in half and multiply by ten for the descent rate. IOW, 90 knots ground speed with 450 FPM descent will be close. Monitor ground speed and increase or decrease power accordingly.

Safety Pilot

Fly with a CFI for a few hours and he will show you what to practice THEN find your safety pilot and go work on it.

Accelerated program

Get some time under the hood and get comfortable with some basics before looking for a finish up program. Once you have the written in hand, and can hold heading and altitude, unusual attitudes and partial panel, that would be a good time to dive in for a finish.

Other

Every time you go fly make sure you land somewhere over 50nM from home so all of that time counts as XC and practice holding heading and altitude, preferably while on flight following.
 
For the accelerated courses, make sure they are teaching how to be an awesome instrument Pilot, not just the bare minimum to pass the exam. There is soooi much more you need to know and experience that might one day save your buttski.

For the aircraft, your instructor should develop with you a reference card that helps you fly the aircraft “by the numbers”. This is a simple grid with “type of flight” down the side, and columns detailing
  • Airspeed
  • Power setting (MP and RPM)
  • Pitch
  • Flap setting
  • Gear up or down
  • VSI feet per minute
Get to know these and it can make your flying much smoother.

During this “middle time”, really focus on altitude and heading control like Doc suggests. Sharpening the skill to put the airplane where you want it and keeping it there with minimum effort will pay off during training.

When you fly, use flight following as much as possible. This helps improve radio and communication skills. Especially hearing what is being told to others and building a mental picture of how it applies to you.

You mentioned the ACS. Start now going through it, section by section, line by line, and building out your personal oral exam study guide. Doing this and writing the answered down helps learning. Frequent review of what you developed will build understanding and comprehension.
 
4RNB said:
I've had my private about two months now, getting more serious about Sporty's online ground school, should finish it this weekend. I will then take some practice tests and see how well I do before scheduling.

I need to do more online Foreflight learning!

Things I've been told:
Pay for Shepherd to do well on the test, not to learn.
Build cross country time talking with flight following to build radio skills, doing that some, more expected.
Learn performance characteristics of my plane that will be needed for IFR flights, I assume this is for climbs and descents. I'd like guidance on what this entails so I can do it some on my own.

I expect that once I pass my written that I will get anxious to get licensed. CFII not lined up yet. I might try and hire some individuals to get me enough exposure to do well on the written and/or better qualify me for accelerated training. I think this is about 10 hours instrument time.

For the accelerated I am considering three options:
1- Hire in a very experienced pilot to come stay with us and do all the flying, same guy that came for a lot of the private. I'd need to be focused on the standards and make sure he was willing to sign me to test (he is a CFII but does not send many to test).
2. A local OBXflight LLC that seems well reviewed. Likely a long waitlist but I could go at the jump of a hat if someone cancels.
3. Randy Longchamps, think he has a spot in a couple months.
I will consider the equivalent of each of the above along with other choices that crop up. I am willing to hire the CFI that signed me to test but he has not yet received his CFII as best I can tell.

I learned from my private to focus on the ACS!

So my questions:
What performance stuff for a C 172 should I learn? Please be specific.
Should I hire a CFII or just a safety pilot to build IFR time?
Are there other accelerated programs to consider?
What else can I be mindful of now to help the heavy training later?
Click to expand...

In addition to VFR flight following, ask for and fly instrument approaches every time. The process is basically the same VFR or IFR, and you will learn a lot about how the system works. Obviously you have to maintain VFR and be vigilant, but that is true even if you are under IFR.
 
sarangan said:
In addition to VFR flight following, ask for and fly instrument approaches every time. The process is basically the same VFR or IFR, and you will learn a lot about how the system works. Obviously you have to maintain VFR and be vigilant, but that is true even if you are under IFR.
Click to expand...
But do this after your CFII feels good about it.
 
1. Test. Gouge up, memorize and pass. Like you said, it’s not really the learning. It’s an orientation and administrative requirement. Make no more, no less of it than this.

2. Instrument flying is three things. A) Flying by reference to instruments. B) Navigating by reference to instruments. C) Knowing the regulations.

a). Scan pattern. Gyro nose, gyro wing, gyro nose, gyro wing, gyro performance, gyro other, lather rinse repeat. The gyro is the center of your world. Learn to put the pipper where you want it and keep it there. It’s akin to looking outside when vfr. Power plus attitude equals performance. Set your power, set your attitude (pipper placement) you will get what you expect. Trim the pressure out. This means... you want straight level 80 mph. X rpm, pipper Y degrees (to a 1/4 degree or half of its size) nose up, and memorize the expected trim change and ultimate position. Learn these settings for practically every possible condition. It’s actually finite... Airplanes are predictable and stable. If one parameter is off, so is another. If your fast, your likely low, for example. Get and keep the airplane hands off. Doing this allows you time to do (b) navigate.

B) Navigating is the art of REALLY understanding: the head falls and the tail rises. Plain and simple. But not to be underestimated.

C) Really understanding this allows you the time to parse weather for minimums, radio transmissions into clearances, decipher approach plates and but mostly public math (degrees per second, distance between radials, d=rt, fuel flow, dimensional analysis, even Celsius to Fahrenheit, etc)! Predict everything.

It’s a very disciplined and rewarding skill. Your plane is perfectly equipped. Use your iPad with positioning off so it’s basically a chart. Navigate with the VORs. If you can do that, this is easy.

Once you start simply assimilating this, you are ready to test. Just like you are ready to solo once you can simply land by looking outside and feeling the airplane. But attack it in the order above. Notice it’s precariously close to aviate, navigate, communicate. This stuff is ripe for a simulator.

Tools
 
okay, howdy all, Im a 60 year old pilot been out of the seat for 25 years. Airplane/RW Commercial Instrument (RW)...so not dead yet, but maybe a little more than a rusty pilot. I thought I saw something where airplane and RW instrument were no longer separate, my plan to return to flying and get current was originally to get my airplane instrument. isn't that still possible?
 
The instrument airplane rating and rotorcraft are distinct ratings (and has been for as long as I've been a pilot which roughly maps to your age/experience range). You can certainly combine getting unrusty again with getting the instruction necessary for the airplane instrument rating. You don't have to take the written (though it will behoove you to study all that material as it is fair game for the checkride). You need ten hours of instruction in an airplane and three hours in preparation for the ride (can overlap those two). Of course, as rusty as you are, you're probably going to need more time than that.
 
flyingron said:
The instrument airplane rating and rotorcraft are distinct ratings (and has been for as long as I've been a pilot which roughly maps to your age/experience range). You can certainly combine getting unrusty again with getting the instruction necessary for the airplane instrument rating. You don't have to take the written (though it will behoove you to study all that material as it is fair game for the checkride). You need ten hours of instruction in an airplane and three hours in preparation for the ride (can overlap those two). Of course, as rusty as you are, you're probably going to need more time than that.
Click to expand...

absolutely, and I'm planning on it... I am looking to find a CFI & CFII who will work together to get me "bright and shiny", I'm actually targeting closer to 40 hours, with a mix of VFR flying, and private and commercial maneuvers, with a couple nice cross country flights of 300-400 miles under IFR and night flying. I'm in no big hurry, I'm hoping to find an aircraft I like and purchase it and learn it for the test flight.

Since I'm locked in in China with my job for a couple years still, I figure I can get my knowledge base up to speed and maybe get a couple flights in as I get home for vacation (assuming the world rights itself someday). Maybe even a little practice or get checked out in an R-44.
 
Just like your initial training focused on the building blocks first, there are building blocks for instrument flying that you need to learn. Your instrument scan, pitch/power, etc. You need a good CFII who will focus on these building blocks before moving on to the more complex instrument procedures. If you are trying to fly complex procedures, like approaches, without having the basics down you will struggle.

Don't discount the value of a good CFII at the beginning of your training.
 
Most newly minted private pilots over estimate their skill and knowledge level. grossly under estimate both the fatigue associated with instrument trading and the training time required to obtain the instrument rating. Federal Regulations mandate 40 hours of instrument aeronautical experience (Flight Time) for the Instrument Rating. The National average is 55-60 hours and those hours are usually all dual with a CFI-I.

Do not mislead yourself into thinking an IR is easy peasey.
 
Clip4 said:
Most newly minted private pilots over estimate their skill and knowledge level. grossly under estimate both the fatigue associated with instrument trading and the training time required to obtain the instrument rating. Federal Regulations mandate 40 hours of instrument aeronautical experience (Flight Time) for the Instrument Rating. The National average is 55-60 hours and those hours are usually all dual with a CFI-I
Click to expand...

Yeah, that kind of thing is in the back of my head, especially given how things need to sink in a bit for me. When I was doing a bit of "accelerated" private training, one of the best things was being able to take a brief nap to shut the brain down for a bit. At my age I sense I do not learn rapidly.

Part of what I am trying to do is have a focused approach to things now so that I pick up on the right stuff early on.
 
It is very common for an instrument student to struggle with simple addition and subtraction after a 1.5 hour flight lesson due to mental fatigue.
 
Clip4 said:
It is very common for an instrument student to struggle with simple addition and subtraction after a 1.5 hour flight lesson due to mental fatigue.
Click to expand...
Also, time is counted differently in IFR training than in primary training.

Primary: Prop turns, clock turns.
Instrument: Time starts when the hood goes on and stops when the hood comes off. You don't count startup, taxi, run up, etc.
 
Clip4 said:
It is very common for an instrument student to struggle with simple addition and subtraction after a 1.5 hour flight lesson due to mental fatigue.
Click to expand...
Fortunately for us male Aggies, counting to 21 is fairly easy.
 
Clip4 said:
It is very common for an instrument student to struggle with simple addition and subtraction after a 1.5 hour flight lesson due to mental fatigue.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you don’t already realize that there is such a thing as mental exhaustion, an hour or more under the hood will probably prove it to you.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Well before about 1968 or so, ALL Aggies could count to 21. Now about half of them can only make it to 20.
Click to expand...
Nothing that a little sildenafil citrate can’t help with. And then you got something to hang your hat on.
 
Just to reinforce the precision. Hold altitude +/- 50 even in the bumps. Get really good at trimming and re-trimming. Hold heading +/- 2 degrees. Get used to holding just a tiny bit of rudder for whichever wing is heavy even on a Cessna.
Plan and execute power and performance changes. As noted above, you can make a key speeds card but also need to learn the process to guide your plane between those speeds, typically multiple trim inputs as the plane slow downs. More trim as flaps come in.
3 degrees nose down doesn't mean 5. 80 KIAS doesn't mean 85. Once you get your plane really dialed in, flying becomes much easier.
If it isn't your plane, try to fly the same bird the most, schedule allowing. The differences between 2 Cessnas can be slight but will have you constantly working and that will be real tiring under the hood.
Find a place with an ATD and an instructor skilled at working with you and it. This will get you through the good habit forming as you learn to guide the plane through an instrument procedure. Practice in changing winds.
Get your scan to where you are no more than 1 dot deflected. This means you are maintaining vigilant watch on the trend and nudging it for glideslope and track, not fixing a heading or glideslope after it is deflected a dot or more. This took me a long time to get right...and it was a scan issue.
 
You will probably want to decide on and learn the pitch/power/performance settings for your plane with your instrument instructor. The foundation of instrument flight control is knowing the pitch/power settings that will result in the most commonly used flight regimes, e.g. max climb, 500 fpm descent at approach speed, level flight at approach speed, level flight at cruise, etc. For my plane approach speed is 90 kt and we created a table of pitch and rpm settings that would generate the various flight regimes. For example I know that 1900 rpm and 1 degree nose down will generate a 500 fpm descent at 90 kt that is close to a 3 degree glideslope. Note that if you change the prop, engine, or AI (e.g. from mechanical to glass), these settings change and must be modified. Once your know "the numbers" you can enter any flight regime effortlessly, reducing task saturation during maneuvers.
 
4RNB said:
2. A local OBXflight LLC that seems well reviewed. Likely a long waitlist but I could go at the jump of a hat if someone cancels.
Click to expand...

I assume that's @SbestCFII. He pops in from time to time. That's who I'd use. Has a long wait list I think though as you said if that's who you're talking about.
 
In Milwaukee Bucks, the "buck" refers to a male deer. The word comes from Old English and the origins beyond there split as to where it might be from, Middle Dutch and German are the high probability guesses.

In the Tampa Bay Bucs, the full team name is Buccaneer, which refers to a name given to pirates off the American Spanish coast. It comes from a French worked meaning one who hunts oxen.

Oh, you wanted ENTOmology man.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top