IFR training in non-IFR aircraft

[midlifeflyer]

When I posted this, I was under the impression that a WAAS VFR GPS such as the Aera 760 would be functionally equivalent to an IFR GPS. Eg it could fly holds and approaches with similar presentation and inputs, it was just not legal because it was portable. I also assumed it could integrate with an external CDI and GS.

Given that is not possible, it does not seem there would be a cost effective path to equipping it sufficiently for true IFR training. Installing an IFR panel mount GPS is not in the cards.

That said, there would be goodness in getting some hood time practicing on the AHI with a safety pilot, and perhaps trying a few emergency approaches with a CFII using the plates on the VFR GPS.

Thanks to all for the insights.

Yeah, it's not about portability. It's about certification.

Take a SportCruiser LSA with a dual Dynon panel. You have the functional equivalent of a G1000. Arguably with even more capability. It's actually usable as a TAA for commercial training. But it's not an IFR certified box.

There is always a good reason for increasing skills, particularly emergency hood work. And for learning to use whatever tools you have for an emergency.,

 

[Ed Haywood]

Yeah, it's not about portability. It's about certification.

Take a SportCruiser LSA with a dual Dynon panel. You have the functional equivalent of a G1000. Arguably with even more capability. It's actually usable as a TAA for commercial training. But it's not an IFR certified box.

There is always a good reason for increasing skills, particularly emergency hood work. And for learning to use whatever tools you have for an emergency.,

If all I want to do is train, why is certification important?

 

[MauleSkinner]

If all I want to do is train, why is certification important?

If all you want to do is train, certification isn’t important. If you want to take a checkride, certification is important for both the checkride and the training.

 

[midlifeflyer]

If all I want to do is train, why is certification important?

It's not. I thought the last line of the post you quoted

There is always a good reason for increasing skills, particularly emergency hood work. And for learning to use whatever tools you have for an emergency.,

said that.

You are training to use the equipment you have in an emergency. It's also helpful for locating the runway at unfamiliar airports and for complying with a VFR instruction to "intercept final" at a towered airport. You are just not training for the rating, except perhaps for a small albeit important part of it..

 

[tsts4]

You can learn and train attitude flying, which the foundation of the IFR flying, without ever shooting an approach or having the equipment to do so. There’s also no reason to expand into approaches if you never have any intent to actually get the rating. And BTW, stick skills are only part of the IFR equation, and kinda a small part, as flying IFR hinges a lot on knowing the rules and procedures.

 

[asicer]

When I posted this, I was under the impression that a WAAS VFR GPS such as the Aera 760 would be functionally equivalent to an IFR GPS. Eg it could fly holds and approaches with similar presentation and inputs, it was just not legal because it was portable. I also assumed it could integrate with an external CDI and GS.

To muddy the waters a bit, the 760 has RS232 Aviation Output format that can connect to the AV30 and present something that looks a lot like a HSI. However, it's still strictly VFR guidance as it doesn't have stuff that a real HSI or even a real CDI would have, most notably terminal/approach sensitivity scaling.

 

[farmrjohn]

When I posted this, I was under the impression that a WAAS VFR GPS such as the Aera 760 would be functionally equivalent to an IFR GPS. Eg it could fly holds and approaches with similar presentation and inputs, it was just not legal because it was portable. I also assumed it could integrate with an external CDI and GS.

Given that is not possible, it does not seem there would be a cost effective path to equipping it sufficiently for true IFR training. Installing an IFR panel mount GPS is not in the cards.

That said, there would be goodness in getting some hood time practicing on the AHI with a safety pilot, and perhaps trying a few emergency approaches with a CFII using the plates on the VFR GPS.

Thanks to all for the insights.

Actually I think you are correct. It is possible for the Aeras to provide gps course information to some displays. The "logic" of the 760 seems pretty much the same as the 430/530 Garmin series as far as loading approaches and executing them. The place where you might loose some procedural fidelity is with the "switchology" required for your display, and you probably won't get any vertical guidance from the Aera. The Aera 660 work fine with a GRT Mini for providing course guidance and resulting EFIS display with the exception that it only loads approaches from the final approach fix to the runway with no missed while the documentation for the 760 indicates that it will. Bigger screen, more capability, more cost…

 

[WDD]

New idea. Keep the money you would have spent on instruments for a plane that you'll never fly IFR in and put it towards renting a trainer that is set up for IFR. You'll have no problems with the CFII or DPE that way, and it will teach you "the full course" of IFR flying. Given it's a bucket list item, why short yourself?

 

[Hannibal]

If all I want to do is train, why is certification important?

You can set up your plane any way you want and set it up to train very well in IFR operations not actually in IMC. Remember, everything you put into your plane needs to be approved for your plane, either by TSO for common items, or STC for some items, in order to preserve your standard AWC. To fly in actual IMC legally, you will either need to have your aircraft Certified for IMC flight...OR...you designate it as an experimental, which will let you then fly your appropriately instrumented aircraft on an IFR clearance, in IMC. Beware, going back to standard certificated status from experimental, is possible but very difficult. You can definitely do Checkrides in an appropriately instrumented experimental.