"IFR Legal" after panel upgrade?

Buck Rizvi

Buck Rizvi

Pre-takeoff checklist
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BoulderBuck
My '73 Cherokee Six 300 is having it's "all original" panel updated with the following:
  • Avidyne IFD-550 Aviation GPS
  • Dual Garmin G5's (AI & DG/HSI)
  • Avidyne ASD-B In/Out
  • PS Engineering PMA450A audio panel with marker beacon receiver
  • Used KX-155 nav/com with used KI 209 VOR/LOC/Glideslope Indicator (for nav/com 2)
  • Plane will have a fresh annual, pitot-static, and transponder test signoff upon delivery
Other than documenting the proper install and test of the new equipment in the aircraft logbooks, what sign off is necessary for my plane to be "IFR Legal" after this upgrade?

Is there a specific FAA form that needs to be completed for IFR cert?

Thanks for your help. I'm newbie to all this and still working on my instrument rating :)
 
the Pitot-static & transponder covers most of it since the GPS nav can be primary. Shop should check VOR function so may as well log it.

The FAA form is the 337 the shop files. You should get a copy along with log entries.
 
Clark1961 said:
the Pitot-static & transponder covers most of it since the GPS nav can be primary. Shop should check VOR function so may as well log it.

The FAA form is the 337 the shop files. You should get a copy along with log entries.
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Perfect. Thanks, Clark!
 
Buck Rizvi said:
what sign off is necessary for my plane to be "IFR Legal" after this upgrade?
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There is no write up required to make a aircraft IFR. But there is a minimum IFR equipment requirement per Part 91 and several entries required on a regular basis to maintain the accuracy of certain equipment. As mentioned above, the 2 year Altitude Reporting and Transponder checks, the 30 day VOR check, and if using an IFR GPS the data base must be current, all with a corresponding entry in the aircraft logbook prior to operating IFR. As for the minimum equipment required check 91.205.
 
Also I believe if they have to bust into the pitot static system in any way (dumping an old blind encoder for a digital one, when adding the new transponder for example) then a new pitot/static has to be done afterward.
 
As long as the pitot static was checked, I'd also wonder if the install of the G5 tapped into that system, and if so it likely to be redone since you broke the proverbial seal post pitot static check (if that makes sense)

Do a VOR check

Make sure the nav databases are current

Should be GTG, as I think the G5s can be used for CDI/GS.

I'd also re swing your compass after all that panel work if it were me.

I'd also recommend getting a little moleskin journal and keeping it in the glove box, use it to track your annual, oil change, ELT, pitot static, ADs, etc and also use it to log your GPS database updates and VOR checks.
 
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James331 said:
I'd also recommend getting a little moleskin journal and keeping it in the glove box, use it to track your annual, oil change, ELT, pitot static, ADs, etc and also use it to log your GPS database updates and VOR checks.
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Great tip. Thank you!
 
Based on what it says in 91.411, the pitot system doesn't have to be checked, just the static system.
 
Palmpilot said:
Based on what it says in 91.411, the pitot system doesn't have to be checked, just the static system.
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Although since it’s mostly the same gear in the toolbox, might as well have them do both and have two more years, just from a practicality standpoint.
 
denverpilot said:
Although since it’s mostly the same gear in the toolbox, might as well have them do both and have two more years, just from a practicality standpoint.
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What does checking the pitot system have to do with having two more years?
 
Palmpilot said:
What does checking the pitot system have to do with having two more years?
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It's been a while since I watched a pitot static test, but doesn't both the static and the pitot get hooked up to the machine?

If the test is preformed and the plane passes it's good for another 2 years before its needed again.
 
James331 said:
It's been a while since I watched a pitot static test, but doesn't both the static and the pitot get hooked up to the machine?

If the test is preformed and the plane passes it's good for another 2 years before its needed again.
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The altimeters and encoder are on the two year clock. Airspeed doesn't matter.
 
James331 said:
It's been a while since I watched a pitot static test, but doesn't both the static and the pitot get hooked up to the machine?
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I don't know. I'm just saying that the regulation doesn't require pitot system testing.

If the test is preformed and the plane passes it's good for another 2 years before its needed again.
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The static system test, among other things, is required to make it good for another two years. Pitot system testing is not required.
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't know. I'm just saying that the regulation doesn't require pitot system testing.



The static system test, among other things, is required to make it good for another two years. Pitot system testing is not required.
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I think we are saying the same thing :)
 
Curiosity question...why Avidyne?
 
I have basically an identical panel to the OP. Dual G5’s. IFD 550. Kx155 for 2nd Nav com.

Ive flown with a GNS 530, GTN 750, and the IFD 550. The 550 is incredible in every way. Extremely intuitive loaded with features and options. The synthetic vision is extremely good which sets it apart from any other GPS.
 
Palmpilot said:
What does checking the pitot system have to do with having two more years?
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Our guy checks both. Ironically he says the most common error he finds is leaking static systems that were “tested” for correct altitude and signed off, but weren’t properly pressure tested for leaks.

He found a static leak in ours the first time he did ours. Technically you’d think a static leak is no big deal, but it ends up being like an alternate static system inside the cockpit... lower pressure and not quite right but often close enough to pass.

Anyway, I do see the point about the pitot. We just check it along with the static anymore. And we don’t use anyone who doesn’t actually check the static properly.

Funny thing is the static leak was probably the cause of a one time anomaly many years ago when I was flying with @jesse now that we know there was a small leak. With outside air at -10F the cockpit warm air was considerably warmer and holding more moisture, and as the system cooled it sucked in warm moist air from the cockpit which froze both static ports.

And that’s how we got the very strange indication of a rising ASI sitting still on the ground that frigid night. “Huh. Look at that. 40 knots. And rising.” (While parked.)

Insidious little bastard. Would have been found sooner if our previous transponder/static guy had done a proper test.
 
James331 said:
It's been a while since I watched a pitot static test, but doesn't both the static and the pitot get hooked up to the machine?
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Yes. The pitot system gets checked by default when performing the static systems test as most static systems are connected to the airspeed indicator. But no calibration is required to the airspeed. Most test equipment applies pressure to the pitot system to keep the airspeed from pegging as the static system is drawn down.
 
Exactly, you can pull the static system down to about 9k feet or so before the airspeed on my airplane is pegged on the high stop when vented to atmospheric pressure.

A guy could hook both the pitot and static to the same vacuum source but you won't have a good idea where it's leaking, and that method may double the amount of leakage noted.
 
SbestCFII said:
Curiosity question...why Avidyne?
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I just started flying again after a 25 year hiatus, so I haven't cut my teeth on a Garmin 430/530.

The Avidyne IFD-550's user interface really impressed me and it includes several features standard (e.g. wifi) that are extra on the Garmin GTN units.

The Avidyne Rep also threw in both their AXP340 ADS-B Out and SkyTrax100 ADS-B receiver as a "sweetener."

I will be paying a lot more to use Jeppesen data, though!
 
arkvet said:
I have basically an identical panel to the OP. Dual G5’s. IFD 550. Kx155 for 2nd Nav com.

Ive flown with a GNS 530, GTN 750, and the IFD 550. The 550 is incredible in every way. Extremely intuitive loaded with features and options. The synthetic vision is extremely good which sets it apart from any other GPS.
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Hi Brent, You're way ahead of me! What did you decide to go with in terms of Jeppesen data packages? Do you mind sharing what you're paying? Thanks!
 
Buck Rizvi said:
Hi Brent, You're way ahead of me! What did you decide to go with in terms of Jeppesen data packages? Do you mind sharing what you're paying? Thanks!
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Last year (year one) I paid $675 which included the East/Central US Nav data ($395) + Terrain ($230) / Obstacles ($50). Terrain and Obstacles are one time downloads that don't need annual renewals... Therefor I will be paying $395 for the Nav Data for the single IFD 550 next month (renewal). That is, of course, unless you find out a better price and let me know about it ;)

The single IFD 540/550 data package will also cover downloads to your ipad for the IFD 100 app, if you choose to use it. Updating is super easy with a usb key.
 
arkvet said:
Last year (year one) I paid $675 which included the East/Central US Nav data ($395) + Terrain ($230) / Obstacles ($50). Terrain and Obstacles are one time downloads that don't need annual renewals... Therefor I will be paying $395 for the Nav Data for the single IFD 550 next month (renewal). That is, of course, unless you find out a better price and let me know about it ;)

The single IFD 540/550 data package will also cover downloads to your ipad for the IFD 100 app, if you choose to use it. Updating is super easy with a usb key.
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Great tip. I just called up Jepp (they're a stone's throw from Boulder) and got a quote for full U.S. nav data for $480/year. I'll probably do like you did and get a one-shot update for the terrain and obstacles.
 
Doesn't the new GPS have to be certified if you want to use it to shoot IFR approaches?
 
Salty said:
Doesn't the new GPS have to be certified if you want to use it to shoot IFR approaches?
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Found the upvoted answer below on aviation.stackexchange.com. My new Avidyne IFD550 is approved in accordance with TSO-C146d (per Avidyne), so I should be good to go:

The AIM contains the information required to operate under IFR using GPS.

To summarize the requirements, WAAS (but not "traditional" GPS) may be used stand-alone without an alternate means of navigation provided:
  • Installation requirements:
    • The WAAS navigation equipment is approved in accordance with TSOC145 or TSOC146
    • The installation is done in accordance with AC 20-138
  • Operational Requirements:
    • The WAAS AFM procedures are followed
    • It is not be used by a commercial operator
  • Preflight Requirements:
    • The GPS database is current
    • The GPS database provider does not have any notices prohibiting the use of any fix or procedure that you are going to use
    • GPS NOTAMs/Aeronautical Information is reviewed prior to each flight
    • A RAIM prediction for the time and route is done that shows no loss of RAIM
    • The flight plan navigation equipment is listed as RNAV
 
Pretty sure the installation has to be certified in some way also.
 
Salty said:
Pretty sure the installation has to be certified in some way also.
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If the shop is an FAA 14 CFR Part 145 certified repair station that follows the device installation manual and AC 20-138D, I believe that covers it. @Salty Do you have a link or reference to some other certification that's required?
 
Salty said:
Pretty sure the installation has to be certified in some way also.
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It depends on the TSO and STC. 430w and newer are pretty much good to go when installed correctly.
 
The installation data, STC/Field Approval, is the approval. You can install a $13k Garmin GTN 750 in a VFR only configuration, if so, the STC flight manual supplement will reflect it. Same thing goes for IFR, LPV, etc.

There is nothing else needed except maybe a functional test via flying it, depends on what the installation data says. Not all log entries would document such a flight either.

Good repair stations will mandate test
 
bnt83 said:
The installation data, STC/Field Approval, is the approval. You can install a $13k Garmin GTN 750 in a VFR only configuration, if so, the STC flight manual supplement will reflect it. Same thing goes for IFR, LPV, etc.

There is nothing else needed except maybe a functional test via flying it, depends on what the installation data says. Not all log entries would document such a flight either.

Good repair stations will mandate test
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You said it better than I did. The installation needs to be meticulous on the setup/configuration. One neat thing about ADS-B out is that it can help verify the setup/configuration if the GPS navigator is the position source.
 
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