IFR flight plan - waypoint acquisition

[aeronav]

IFR student here, It took me some studying to know that using VOR stations as waypoints is not only not required in IFR, but also you don't necessarily need to be on a victor airway at any phase of the flight (I hope I got this right). It makes sense with the availability of GPS waypoints and ease of use.
But while looking at low IFR charts, high IFR charts and VFR charts (i.e skyVector), I found that only some, not all GPS waypoints are actually displayed on these charts; hearing about a certain waypoint for example on an IFR video on Youtube and then going to check it on skyvector, that waypoint is not labeled on that chart, but searching for it with its' identifier shows where it is (still without a label on the chart), this behavior is of course similar to other flight bag apps such as flight plan app, which have identical charts to skyvector, and similarly it displays where that waypoint is when i search by its' identifier, but again it is not labeled.
So, the question is where are these waypoints acquired when planning for IFR flight?
It's just a random question that been in my head for a while, and I haven't found the answer to it.

 

[Palmpilot]

IFR student here, It took me some studying to know that using VOR stations as waypoints is not only not required in IFR, but also you don't necessarily need to be on a victor airway at any phase of the flight (I hope I got this right). It makes sense with the availability of GPS waypoints and ease of use.
But while looking at low IFR charts, high IFR charts and VFR charts (i.e skyVector), I found that only some, not all GPS waypoints are actually displayed on these charts; hearing about a certain waypoint for example on an IFR video on Youtube and then going to check it on skyvector, that waypoint is not labeled on that chart, but searching for it with its' identifier shows where it is (still without a label on the chart), this behavior is of course similar to other flight bag apps such as flight plan app, which have identical charts to skyvector, and similarly it displays where that waypoint is when i search by its' identifier, but again it is not labeled.
So, the question is where are these waypoints acquired when planning for IFR flight?
It's just a random question that been in my head for a while, and I haven't found the answer to it.

Are you asking how you would find out about such a waypoint (so that you could put it in a flight plan, for example)? If so, when I right-click on a sectional or enroute chart in Skyvector, it gives me a list of nearby fixes, including ones that are not on the chart. They might be depicted on an approach, arrival, or departure chart. There might be other ways, but that is the one that I know about.

If you're asking how your GPS equipment acquires it, it would have to be in the database.

 

[Jim K]

A lot of GPS fixes exist that are part of approaches or departure/ arrival procedures, and are only charted on the plates for those procedures. You'll only be given one of those when you're arriving or departing an airport, and you shouldn't use them for route planning unless you are planning to use that procedure. You also shouldn't be given one unless you are using that specific procedure, although occasionally atc will throw out a fix they use all the time out of habit. Your GPS navigator can find any of these so long as you spell it correctly, and if you aren't sure on the spelling, ask for clarification.

Flight planning for ifr is a little different IRL than in training. 90% of the time you just file direct and get it. When you get close to busy airspace, there'll be common routes you'll get put on. Sometimes it's possible to predict these using previously cleared routes in your efb. A lot of times you'll get rerouted in the air and they'll spell the fix for you. This should always be an intersection that's labeled on the low ifr chart.

If you think about the number of approaches, and each one has 6-10 waypoints in it, you'll see that if they were all charted, the low enroute would just be a black blob of fixes and names near any sizeable airport. You only need them when on that specific approach anyway.

 

[midlifeflyer]

A lot of GPS fixes exist that are part of approaches or departure/ arrival procedures, and are only charted on the plates for those procedures.​

Waypoints with an enroute function on the enroute charts.​

Waypoints with an arrival or departure function on the DP or STAR charts.​

Waypoints with an approach function on the approach charts.​

Sometimes overlap when multiple function (like an IAF), but can you imagine how crowded and unreadable an enroute chart would be if it had all of them?

 

[Clip4]

IFR student here, It took me some studying to know that using VOR stations as waypoints is not only not required in IFR, but also you don't necessarily need to be on a victor airway at any phase of the flight (I hope I got this right). It makes sense with the availability of GPS waypoints and ease of use.
But while looking at low IFR charts, high IFR charts and VFR charts (i.e skyVector), I found that only some, not all GPS waypoints are actually displayed on these charts; hearing about a certain waypoint for example on an IFR video on Youtube and then going to check it on skyvector, that waypoint is not labeled on that chart, but searching for it with its' identifier shows where it is (still without a label on the chart), this behavior is of course similar to other flight bag apps such as flight plan app, which have identical charts to skyvector, and similarly it displays where that waypoint is when i search by its' identifier, but again it is not labeled.
So, the question is where are these waypoints acquired when planning for IFR flight?
It's just a random question that been in my head for a while, and I haven't found the answer to it.

Maybe because ATC doesn’t want you to file any waypoint and want you to use the one on the en route charts.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Maybe because ATC doesn’t want you to file any waypoint and want you to use the one on the en route charts.

I'm curious. Do you think that's the case? We've seen posts about ATC assigning waypoints which are not on the enroute chart not part of any procedure that was assigned or expected. Some waypoint on an unassigned STAR or a different approach than expected are two which come to mind. At the opposite end, the "what's your enroute heading to..." question comes up when we ask direct to some waypoint that's nowhere near their airspace, whatever chart it happens to be on. Then there are the folks who include an approach waypoint when they file, whether or not it's on the enroute chart.

 

[Martin Pauly]

Maybe because ATC doesn’t want you to file any waypoint and want you to use the one on the en route charts.

I've used such "secret" waypoints successfully here and there, but in general it makes things easier if your flight plan fixes are well-known to the typical controller. That includes VORs, of course, but also a number of five-letter fixes which are often assigned to route aircraft around busy or restricted airspace.

- Martin