IFR filed altitude

ahmad

ahmad

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Midwest Aviator
What altitude do you file initially? The minimum requirement enroute altitude or the final (higher) altitude you intend to fly?
 
Why would you file for an altitude you don’t want to fly at?
 
File for what you will fly taking into account the E / W rule.
 
My understanding was that you file the final altitude you intend to fly. However, I had a cfi say you should file the initial lower altitude that is on the airway knowing that you will climb to the higher/final altitude.
 
Typically you file for the final altitude you want to cruise at. Most likely your clearance will include an intermediate altitude, for example climb and maintain 4000, expect 9000 in 10. Once radar identified and you’re past any potential conflicts they’ll clear you up to that final altitude. Sometimes that happens immediately and sometimes you have to fly for a bit.
 
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ahmad said:
My understanding was that you file the final altitude you intend to fly. However, I had a cfi say you should file the initial lower altitude that is on the airway knowing that you will climb to the higher/final altitude.
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You can do it both ways. Most of the time, you would file for your final intended cruise altitude.

But, there may be times when you want to file for the lower initial altitude.

When I'm flying west from coastal Virginia, for example, I know that I will need to fly at least 8000' to cross the mountains IFR. But if the winds aloft at 8k at 30 kts on the nose - ain't no way I'm filing for 8000'.

In those cases, I will file for a lower altitude (say 4000') and cruise there for as long as I can with the expectation that ATC will climb me when necessary to cross the mountains.
 
ahmad said:
What altitude do you file initially? The minimum requirement enroute altitude or the final (higher) altitude you intend to fly?
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I file the cruise altitude I want to fly.

Is there something I'm missing in the question? I have no idea what you mean by "initially." I put one altitude in the flight plan I file, not a series.
 
File the altitude you would use if there were no intermediate restrictions. ATC knows and expects you to follow all the intermediate restrictions. In case of lost comm, follow the highest allowed altitude for each segment until reaching your filed altitude.
 
You file for the first altitude you want consistent with E/W rule. There can be a number of different factors that effect that decision: Ceiling, icing, FD, airspace, hypoxia, terrain, ect.
 
sarangan said:
File the altitude you would use if there were no intermediate restrictions. ATC knows and expects you to follow all the intermediate restrictions. In case of lost comm, follow the highest allowed altitude for each segment until reaching your filed altitude.
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Filed altitude has nothing to do with lost comm procedure.
 
You file for your initial desired cruise altitude.

GA airplanes don't usually step-climb as they burn off fuel so their initial cruise altitude is likely their only cruise altitude.

If an MEA will require a higher altitude later, but you don't want to fly that higher altitude until you have to, then fly the initial lower cruise altitude. You can request the higher altitude later or wait for ATC to assign it as you approach the increased MEA.
 
I like 7, 8 or 9 thousand feet. Best performance and generally away from the zig zaggers. Whether I file for those depends on weather and what the wind is doing. Sometimes I go higher, sometimes lower.
 
Larry in TN said:
You file for your initial desired cruise altitude.

GA airplanes don't usually step-climb as they burn off fuel so their initial cruise altitude is likely their only cruise altitude.

If an MEA will require a higher altitude later, but you don't want to fly that higher altitude until you have to, then fly the initial lower cruise altitude. You can request the higher altitude later or wait for ATC to assign it as you approach the increased MEA.
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Have you ever done that on a domestic flight?
 
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I file the altitude I want for winds and weather. ATC will put me higher as needed. Sometimes they don’t need me as high as the charts imply and I don’t want to file and spend 8 hours at 14,000 when there’s only a 30-minute segment that really requires it. So I file 8-12 depending on what I want and plan for some brief moments above that along the way.
 
luvflyin said:
Have you ever done that on a domestic flight?
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Many times. Flying west, into the wind I often like to stay really low. I know that later in the flight as terrain rises I will have to go higher.
If you file to that higher altitude, atc will clear you on up right away. Better to file lower then wait for them to assign higher as needed (or ask for it if they forget).

And yes to the step climbs; too heavy initially to go to desired altitude so no point in filing up there right away. File lower and then ask for higher when you've burned some weight off.
 
Winds and weather is the answer for me. I filed to only 7,000 on my most recent flight, due to stronger headwinds above, knowing I would need to climb to 11,000 at some point more than halfway thru the 4-hour flight.

No reason to file 11 or 13 only to stay there in my situation.
 
luvflyin said:
Filed altitude has nothing to do with lost comm procedure.
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I know you are referring to cleared vs filed, but that doesn't invalidate the point I was making. In case of lost comm you follow all the intermediate altitude restrictions until reaching the cleared (not filed) altitude.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Many times. Flying west, into the wind I often like to stay really low. I know that later in the flight as terrain rises I will have to go higher.
If you file to that higher altitude, atc will clear you on up right away. Better to file lower then wait for them to assign higher as needed (or ask for it if they forget).

And yes to the step climbs; too heavy initially to go to desired altitude so no point in filing up there right away. File lower and then ask for higher when you've burned some weight off.
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I was asking about 'filing' both altitudes and where/when the climb will commence. It's very common on Oceanic Flights. I was just wondering if he had ever done it domestically.
 
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If you level off at something below filed for a significant period of time, there’s a good chance ATC will just amend your altitude to that. They’re not gonna want to deal with the coordination. Each sector you go through, they’ll have to get approval for being at an altitude not indicated on the flight strip. Not to mention, if you file to an altitude that’s above TRACON, center will be getting a strip that they won’t need. Makes for unnecessary coordination / confusion.
 
Velocity173 said:
If you level off at something below filed for a significant period of time, there’s a good chance ATC will just amend your altitude to that. They’re not gonna want to deal with the coordination. Each sector you go through, they’ll have to get approval for being at an altitude not indicated on the flight strip. Not to mention, if you file to an altitude that’s above TRACON, center will be getting a strip that they won’t need. Makes for unnecessary coordination / confusion.
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Yup. It was mandatory at ZLA and I'm sure everywhere else. You can amend that "coordination / confusion" thing to coordination/confusion/deals. Pretty sure it's referenced in the 7110.65 or 7210.3
 
It sounds like the answer is (big surprise), “It depends”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sarangan said:
File the altitude you would use if there were no intermediate restrictions. ATC knows and expects you to follow all the intermediate restrictions. In case of lost comm, follow the highest allowed altitude for each segment until reaching your filed altitude.
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Actually it is your assigned/expected altitude and the lowest MEAs or OROCAs required for obstacle clearence.
 
I don’t see how it would make sense to file anything other than your initial requested cruise altitude / flight level.
If you filed higher for a step climb later on, you would just have to tell them you want a lower cruise. Later on you would have to request higher. It just makes no sense.
 
Kritchlow said:
I don’t see how it would make sense to file anything other than your initial requested cruise altitude / flight level.
If you filed higher for a step climb later on, you would just have to tell them you want a lower cruise. Later on you would have to request higher. It just makes no sense.
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Yeah. I’m still wondering about something. Do you fly Oceanic Routes?
 
File the altitude you want so ATC can plan to get you there sooner. I would normally file 6000-10000 feet, or whatever gets me above the lowest tops, if possible. The winds aloft would have to be pretty prohibitive for me to slog in the bumps in IMC. I've had a trip or two where I could suffer 85-90 kt GS westbound in smooth VFR or get 110 kt GS and get beat up down low. I'll take the boring, slow, smooth air and an extra fuel stop every day.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. I’m still wondering about something. Do you fly Oceanic Routes?
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Yes, but not in the way you want to get the info.
We fly oceanic airspace, but not across the pond.
 
ahmad said:
What altitude do you file initially? The minimum requirement enroute altitude or the final (higher) altitude you intend to fly?
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Okay, after rereading and taking myself out of jet mode, I see your question a bit better.

File the altitude you want to fly…. As long as it’s at or above the MEA.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yes, but not in the way you want to get the info.
We fly oceanic airspace, but not across the pond.
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Thanks for replying. I had said routes instead of airspace for a reason, which you understood. But now I’m wondering, do you get oceanic type clearances flying offshore, northerly/southerly between domestic locations? Like you’re talking with New York or Oakland Oceanic control instead of the adjacent Centers like Boston/Washington/Jacksonville/Miami/Seattle/Los Angeles.
 
luvflyin said:
Thanks for replying. I had said routes instead of airspace for a reason, which you understood. But now I’m wondering, do you get oceanic type clearances flying offshore, northerly/southerly between domestic locations? Like you’re talking with New York or Oakland Oceanic control instead of the adjacent Centers like Boston/Washington/Jacksonville/Miami/Seattle/Los Angeles.
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Yes, we fly through NY oceanic. Used to be called WATRS airspace. Can’t recall what it is now. Like Boston to SanJuan. HF radios with position reporting.
 
Kritchlow said:
Yes, we fly through NY oceanic. Used to be called WATRS airspace. Can’t recall what it is now. Like Boston to SanJuan. HF radios with position reporting.
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Puerto Rico, yeah. I was wondering more about like Boston to Miami where you could get pretty far out offshore over the ocean but maybe not into ‘oceanic airspace.’
 
luvflyin said:
Puerto Rico, yeah. I was wondering more about like Boston to Miami where you could get pretty far out offshore over the ocean but maybe not into ‘oceanic airspace.’
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You will not enter oceanic on that route unless you specifically filed that. Oceanic starts pretty far out.

Often they keep you inland because the warning areas off the east coast is hot.
 
luvflyin said:
Puerto Rico, yeah. I was wondering more about like Boston to Miami where you could get pretty far out offshore over the ocean but maybe not into ‘oceanic airspace.’
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I think you're talking about the AR routes where you're over water from South Carolina until joining up again with the east coast of Florida farther south. Those are in RADAR coverage and VHF radio contact with Jacksonville and Miami Centers.

The oceanic routes are the Lima routes. L451, L452, ..., L455. Those are Class II nav with HF position reporting to New York Oceanic through New York ARINC.
 
Larry in TN said:
I think you're talking about the AR routes where you're over water from South Carolina until joining up again with the east coast of Florida farther south. Those are in RADAR coverage and VHF radio contact with Jacksonville and Miami Centers.

The oceanic routes are the Lima routes. L451, L452, ..., L455. Those are Class II nav with HF position reporting to New York Oceanic through New York ARINC.
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I hadn’t been looking in that much detail, but have since. My experience was working the Oceanic transition area at LA Center. There were none of those North/South crossing routes there. Kinda like the West Coast is an outie instead of an innie so to speak. Anyway, back to the can two altitudes actually be ‘filed,’ it looks like it doesn’t happen on domestic flights, even those as long as all the way Puerto Rico.
 
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